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hotsocks3 said:do you think carbon bikes are worth the extra money? life of bike compared to alloy bikes? damage prone?
just wondering of peoples thought with carbon bikes and traveling with them (hard or soft cases?)
cheers,
Pietro said:'Worth' is personal. For some a $8000 carbon frame is 'worth' it, for others a $1000 carbon frame isn't 'worth' it.
They are generally NOT lifetime frames like some steel and titanium frames. Steel and ti break 'JRA' from crappy welding/design, but not 'because' of the materials of the frame. If made well with appropriate tubing, they can last decades. I've never seen a decades old Kestrel or Trek.
Carbon frames do not have the crashworthy-ness of metal frames either. If you are going to travel with them, probably a metal frame is a better idea.
hotsocks3 said:do you think carbon bikes are worth the extra money? life of bike compared to alloy bikes? damage prone?
just wondering of peoples thought with carbon bikes and traveling with them (hard or soft cases?)
cheers,
Jacques Tati said:Dont get carried away with the fads of the industry....I have a 20 year old steel Colnago it still looks great and rides like a dream. I also have a carbon C40 which equally is excellent...if I listened to all the hype the industry pumps out these days both would have be sent to the dump years ago. Buy what you like, what suits your pocket.
Yes carbon is nice.....but I personally dont think any cycle frame is worth £3000+. Even more worrying is looking on e-bay and seeing the makers of these frames selling them direct from their factories for £500 minus decals and even Colnago do factory resprays for £250.
My next frame....probably a custom made steel Brian Rourke...I'll know who's made it, I will have chosen every part and colour of it.
I also recall reading an article some months ago asking leading people in the industry what we could expect in the future....several saw the future with steel.
hotsocks3 said:do you think carbon bikes are worth the extra money? life of bike compared to alloy bikes? damage prone?
just wondering of peoples thought with carbon bikes and traveling with them (hard or soft cases?)
cheers,
intersting, i did end up with an entery level carbon, and it is better then my standard, but the look of it and feel, was great. the simaler priced steel were not a nice. Just wanted to know peoples opions on carbon as i have had a few comments from people. The only concern i have is traveling if it as i want to get into some road racing (club level to start with)
Pietro said:'Worth' is personal. For some a $8000 carbon frame is 'worth' it, for others a $1000 carbon frame isn't 'worth' it."
is it safe to say that any of the cheaper carbon frames are rubbish? eg there's much hype of the Specialized Roubaix at the high end of the range, but their entry level bikes are like GBP1,000 or something with 105 kit (not 105 brakes tho). in this price range, should somebody just look at alu or steel?
Black Dog said:Steel and Titanium have very long life spans, Carbon has a theoretical infinite life span (must be flawless and well designed) but is very fragile to damage. Aluminum has a finite life span as it gets brittle with repetitive use. All have pluses and minuses as a base material but it is engineering more than materials that determines the ride quality. Don't obsess over weight and you will end up with a good bike that lasts a long time, rides like a dream and does not cost a fortune.
Pietro said:Agree but one small point that relates to design. Yes, carbon fiber does have an almost infinite lifetime but all carbon fiber frames are glued together somehow and that glue, epoxy, whatever does not have an infinite lifetime.
Pietro said:Agree but one small point that relates to design. Yes, carbon fiber does have an almost infinite lifetime but all carbon fiber frames are glued together somehow and that glue, epoxy, whatever does not have an infinite lifetime.
I would guess that carbon will eventually become a very low cost material. Maybe it has already happened. There are lots of very cheap asian carbon frames.
Sheltowee said:I think pretty soon the green movement is going to kick in pro ranks and we will see a movement back to alloy frames in the peleton. All it will take is one successful team saying "hey, look at us! We ride steel. Our bikes are recyclable. We care about the enviroment." It will all be down hill for carbon after that because the sponsors will want to be associated with a green team etc.
Ovidius said:That is so unbelievably nieve. Riding steel bikes is not especially Green in the first place and whether they are recyclable is questionable at best - especially with the amount of steel required for a performance road bike.
The impact on racing would also be too big. The impact on the Cycle industry would be bigger. The impact of changing back to mass producing steel bikes - would be exceptionally big - enviromentally and financially.
So it is not pretty soon that alloy frames will return, nor is anything pointing toward a move away from Carbon.
LugHugger said:Perhaps not racing but evidence the recognition and growth in steel custom framebuilding in N America over the last 5 years. This is also mirrored in the UK and Italy. In fact, steel never went away in the traditional European markets. As you rightly say, the major builders have too much margin invested in carbon to turn back to steel. It's a nice thought though.
Ovidius said:This misses a vital point. Aluminium is easy to design and copy. So for instance, I can design a frame in my Garage, take it to a company and they can make a lot of them very cheaply.
Carbon, on the other hand, is very difficult to design because you have to mould it. Making the moulds for multiple sizes, to match perhaps different designs for testing etc, overall this process is where the expense is. If you get an off the shelf carbon frame or make a lot of frames for a mass market - so the lower end carbon frames (4.5 treks, low roubaix, cheaper own brands etc) - these will have the volume and are effectively very cheap, except for swapping moulds frequently.
However, with lower volume frames - so lighter bikes or ones you expect not to sell very many of, are actually expensive because of the processes required to design and make them.
BroDeal said:Bringing up the capital outlay required to begin manufacture is a good point.
So here is a question: What is the cost to make five molds. Heck, some of these compact frames have fewer sizes than that. If you are selling frames for $5K a piece, how many do you have to sell to cover your initial expenses?