Cardiac Anomalies - is something going on or is this normal?

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Yes. Seriously.

No-one is claiming he was a WorldTeam rider: you seem to be either unaware of, or unwilling to acknowledge, the difference.

But unless you are willing to apologise for the arrogance with which you have pursued your error, there is no sense in deflecting the thread further, and we will learn something about you.
 
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Armchair cyclist said:
Yes. Seriously.

No-one is claiming he was a WorldTeam rider: you seem to be either unaware of, or unwilling to acknowledge, the difference.

But unless you are willing to apologise for the arrogance with which you have pursued your error, there is no sense in deflecting the thread further, and we will learn something about you.
If you have anything substantive to add to the topic, please do. Otherwise, troll someone else. I've already learned more than I need to know about you.
 
Re: Re:

fmk_RoI said:
Armchair cyclist said:
Yes. Seriously.

No-one is claiming he was a WorldTeam rider: you seem to be either unaware of, or unwilling to acknowledge, the difference.

But unless you are willing to apologise for the arrogance with which you have pursued your error, there is no sense in deflecting the thread further, and we will learn something about you.
If you have anything substantive to add to the topic, please do. Otherwise, troll someone else. I've already learned more than I need to know about you.
Except that you haven't learned much of anything, it's that each individual heart patient is very different, and thusly, there is no formula.
 
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Re: Re:

Tricycle Rider said:
Except that you haven't learned much of anything, it's that each individual heart patient is very different, and thusly, there is no formula.
I've really got no idea where you got the idea there's a formula involved. Maybe once more you're just piling in without reading?
 
Re: Re:

fmk_RoI said:
Tricycle Rider said:
Except that you haven't learned much of anything, it's that each individual heart patient is very different, and thusly, there is no formula.
I've really got no idea where you got the idea there's a formula involved. Maybe once more you're just piling in without reading?
Is this some kind of a reddit sub poster that you're confusing me with?

I'm not looking for karma, are you?
 
Freeman on British Cycling's lack of support for cardiac screening beyond Podium and Academy athletes:
Personally, I wanted to extend the screening to any rider on a British Cycling programme aged fourteen and above, but despite proposing it in-house in early 2016 it was not picked up on as preparations for Rio 2016 were key at that time.
 
Re:

fmk_RoI said:
Freeman on British Cycling's lack of support for cardiac screening beyond Podium and Academy athletes:
Personally, I wanted to extend the screening to any rider on a British Cycling programme aged fourteen and above, but despite proposing it in-house in early 2016 it was not picked up on as preparations for Rio 2016 were key at that time.
In 2017 he proposed it again, following Charlie Craig's death:
Immediately after his death I went to management, knowing that it was time to act. But I was told that the problems caused by Jiffygate meant that the funding of the WPP programme was under threat. I should get on and do my job with the podium riders.
 
And February 2018, coroner Chris Moris on Craig's death:
It is of residual concern that British Cycling still does not routinely undertake medical evaluation or screening prior to accepting individuals on to their junior training programme. All sports have a role to play in reducing the number of young deaths.
 
Aug 20, 2016
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fmk_RoI said:
Norks74 said:
There was one. Michael Goolerts at Paris Roubaix. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Goolaerts
Oh. My. God.

Seriously.

Vérandas Willems–Crelan is a pro-conti team. Which is not WT.
fmk_RoI. Easy now. I was merely trying to remind you that the incident occurred during 2018 at a World Tour race, which you evidently know as it's mentioned in your initial post. I took WT in the post I replied to to mean World Tour level racing rather than specifically, a World Tour team.

As with regards to the topic at large, it's my opinion that it is normal and to be expected. And that's before factoring in any doping whatsoever.
 
It's been quite a while since we had one of these in a WT rider: 37-year-old Belarussian Vasil Kiryienka (currently Sky, ex of Movistar and Tinkoff) sidelined with cardiac anomaly (no details on type). Sky doc Iñigo Sarriegui:
“All of our riders have a cardiac screening every year – and in Kiry’s screening we found an anomaly that required further investigation. Following tests, Kiry is currently undergoing treatment and he will remain sidelined until further notice.”
Annoyingly, Sky have only revealed this after questions were aksed about Kiryienka's abscence from races.
 
Patrick Bevin (28, CCC) out of Tour Down Under with cardiac arrhythmia.

Team doc Max Testa:
"Patrick does not have a history of heart problems. However, an electrocardiogram detected an episode of supraventricular arrhythmia. Fortunately, this is a non-life threatening condition and is quite common, but it did require immediate treatment to regulate the heart rhythm. Thankfully, Patrick experienced this episode whilst with the team, and we were able to treat the arrhythmia immediately. We will continue to monitor his recovery and run further tests as a precaution. However, as we are less than a week out from the race, Patrick will not be in a position to line up at the Santos Tour Down Under. Patrick will return to New Zealand, where we are confident he will make a full recovery and will be able to resume his racing program shortly."
 
1 in 200,000 high school athletes die every year in the US due to sudden cardiac arrest. The rate increases with the level of competition: 1 in 50,000 college athletes succumb to it. It seems obvious to me that the extreme levels at which pro cyclists exercise will trigger more cardiac events than the normal population. It also seems incredibly likely, although perhaps not "obvious", that a heart which is unusually performant is also more likely to fail (like an overclocked CPU).
 
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1 in 200,000 high school athletes die every year in the US due to sudden cardiac arrest. The rate increases with the level of competition: 1 in 50,000 college athletes succumb to it. It seems obvious to me that the extreme levels at which pro cyclists exercise will trigger more cardiac events than the normal population. It also seems incredibly likely, although perhaps not "obvious", that a heart which is unusually performant is also more likely to fail (like an overclocked CPU).
Why is this "incredibly likely"?
 
Reactions: fmk_RoI
Why is this "incredibly likely"?
You left off "seems", which is the word I use when I'm describing my own intuitive understanding of something. It seems that way to me because high performance engines (even biological ones) break down more easily. Horses (VO2 max ~= 200) can be run to death but the average human tends to collapse from exhaustion before death. Pro athletes would be somewhere between Homer Simpson and Secretariat.

Luckily, actual scientists have noted this correlation and many studies shown an increased risk of arrhythmia in endurance athletes: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5135187/

The linked review does note the possibility of drugs playing a role, although given the groups studied ("vigorously exercising middle aged men" and other amateur populations) and their likelihood of substance abuse, it doesn't make me think it's all down to roids.
 
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You left off "seems", which is the word I use when I'm describing my own intuitive understanding of something. It seems that way to me because high performance engines (even biological ones) break down more easily. Horses (VO2 max ~= 200) can be run to death but the average human tends to collapse from exhaustion before death. Pro athletes would be somewhere between Homer Simpson and Secretariat.

Luckily, actual scientists have noted this correlation and many studies shown an increased risk of arrhythmia in endurance athletes: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5135187/

The linked review does note the possibility of drugs playing a role, although given the groups studied ("vigorously exercising middle aged men" and other amateur populations) and their likelihood of substance abuse, it doesn't make me think it's all down to roids.
I missed off seems because it didn't seem relevant when claiming something is highly likely, it's in the quoted post.

Which high performance biological engines break down more easily? How are you defining performance? Horses are pretty different to people, what baseline are you using to normalise between the two?


The linked paper shows that endurance athletes are more prone to AF (to be correct, the study you linked doesn't show this, it just says references 6-24 do and summarises them in table 1), which is evidence for this statement you made:

"It seems obvious to me that the extreme levels at which pro cyclists exercise will trigger more cardiac events than the normal population."

It's worth noting that those studies aren't just about pro athletes, the one you probably should have quoted is this one:


That wasn't the statement I was questioning however.
 
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Jimmy Turgis (28), a French rider with the pro-Conti outfit B&B Hotels–Vital Concept, retires with an unidentified cardiac irregularlity. His younger brother Tangay Turgis retired in 2018, aged 20, also with an unidentified irregularity. A third Turgis brother, Anthony (25), is a pro with Total Direct Énergie.
 
I used to race at a high level back in the early 90's. I was pretty much useless when it came to reading a race, but I trained more than pretty much everyone else and could drop top ranked riders in training rides of 150 km's and more. Fast forward to a couple years ago when I went to see a heart specialist because pretty much everyone of any age was passing me while on a ride to the friggin corner shop. Turns out I was gasping for breath because my heart rate exceeded 300 beats per minute. I would literally faint when taking my dogs for a walk. After seeing three specialists over the course of a year, I was told my condition was a result of excessive training when riding. I am now well past the age of racing bikes, but I am told that the combination of riding in previous years and current alcohol use is the cause of my condition. Drinking has replaced riding, but I always use the training thing as an excuse for the reason I can no longer exercise and do strenuous activities. p.s. The last part was an attempt at a joke.
 
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Aug 13, 2016
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Goeleven, Goolaerts, Myngheer, De Greef, Vanacker, Verdick, Nolf, Duquennoy, De Vriendt. Seems like Belgian/Dutch riders/teams are way overrepresented in cardiac-related fatalities of youngish riders in these last few years - they're pretty much all of them. Is it because we're not hearing about young Spaniard/Italian/French/American/Eastern European/Colombian/etc riders deaths at this conti/proconti/amateur level? Is there a difference in pre sport check ups and screening? Is it randomness?


FWIW, I remember reading the authopsy showed Larsen's cause of death wasn't cardiac.
 

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