Carlos Betancur discussion thread

[phanatic]

it doesn't even have anything to do with English. It's Colombia in every language...

Yeah, it's just like Germany and Spain.

 

[hfer07]

Perhaps the comparison that i'm about to make is a bit radical, but I find too many similarities in personality & attitude between Betancur & Frank Vandenbroucke : Both incredibly talented and blinded believing with that alone, they could get what they want, come back when they feel like, because is always a next season to bounce back & meanwhile careless, lacking the commitment & discipline inherited to the career, the uniform & team duties attached to it, difficult to deal with, rebellious without a cause, not detail orientated, so distracted by the good times & the drinking/partying/etc.....

 

[christopherrowe]

Yeah, it's just like Germany and Spain.

Heh.

Confining myself to languages using the Latin alphabet and Google translate, I got these before I got bored and gave up.

Colombia
Kolumbi
Kolumbiya
Kolonbia
Kolumbija
Colòmbia
Kolumbija
Kolumbie
Kolumbia
Kolombya
Colombie
Kolumbien
Kolonbi
An Cholóim
Kolombja
Colômbia
Columbia

I like that Irish one a lot, An Cholóim.

That said, language and spelling when discussing an international sport has a lot of complications. This is an English language forum, but we don't say Tour of Spain and Tour of Italy, generally, when we're talking about Grand Tours. Most people make the effort to use the spellings of riders name the riders themselves would use, I think, instead of anglicizing them all the time.

 

[slosada]

I hope Betancur realizes what he's doing before it's too late. And I want to hear what his schedule would be.

OTOH, what Ryo stated was only a guess, as he stated: He's probably... AFAIK, no one knows for sure if he has been training, what his weight would be.

Also note that he does give excuses: Last year before Vuelta España he said he was sick (IIRC you can try to find the interview in youtube or RMC), but that sickness was never explained as it should given his shape in La Vuelta, also, he skipped Burgos.

And what I would do is to put him a power meter with HRM and make Carlos upload data daily, then pay him by training adherence.

Oh, yeah, I'm Colombian and it doesn't bother me when someone uses "Columbia" or derivatives to refer to a South American country and its citizens... In fact, I find it funny when someone repeats the same thing over and over, even after being corrected for years.
BTW, Thanks Chris for the Colombia translations

 

[Afrank]

It isn't. It's Kolumbia in my language and many other languages have got it's unique spelling. In many of them the first part is Kolu so that must be one of the reasons why people spell it wrong. Not all of us are native or advanced english speakers either. The people who pick on this could be more tolerant and not resort to unnecessary sarcasm so often.

Hmm. so not post meme corrections? NEVER!!! It is the duty of every fan of the great colombian riders to correct any misspelling of Colombia! Through whatever means necessary. To be serious though, I don't think posting it in pictures is not being tolerant or anything like that.

But to get back on topic of the fat cat, Lavenu (AG2R's manager) should get his @ss to Columbia and forcibly bring Betancur back to Europe. Betancur became one of my favorite riders after the Giro, so really hope his talent doesn't go to waste.

p.s. did you see what I did there.

 

[gospina]

Heh.

Confining myself to languages using the Latin alphabet and Google translate, I got these before I got bored and gave up.

Colombia
Kolumbi
Kolumbiya
Kolonbia
Kolumbija
Colòmbia
Kolumbija
Kolumbie
Kolumbia
Kolombya
Colombie
Kolumbien
Kolonbi
An Cholóim
Kolombja
Colômbia
Columbia

I like that Irish one a lot, An Cholóim.

That said, language and spelling when discussing an international sport has a lot of complications. This is an English language forum, but we don't say Tour of Spain and Tour of Italy, generally, when we're talking about Grand Tours. Most people make the effort to use the spellings of riders name the riders themselves would use, I think, instead of anglicizing them all the time.

Just to throw it out there, take a country like Côte d’Ivoire. They don't want to be called "Ivory Coast". Do you respect that or not?

How about a city...they want to call it Mumbai. Do you still call it "Bombay"?

My thoughts on Colombia are the same as this. If you could care less, you call it what you want..Columbia, Ivory Coast, Bombay, USSR, etc...
If you care at least a little bit, you call it Colombia, Côte d’Ivoire, Mumbai, Russia/Ukraine/etc...

 

[Arnout]

I hope Betancur realizes what he's doing before it's too late. And I want to hear what his schedule would be.

OTOH, what Ryo stated was only a guess, as he stated: He's probably... AFAIK, no one knows for sure if he has been training, what his weight would be.

Also note that he does give excuses: Last year before Vuelta España he said he was sick (IIRC you can try to find the interview in youtube or RMC), but that sickness was never explained as it should given his shape in La Vuelta, also, he skipped Burgos.

And what I would do is to put him a power meter with HRM and make Carlos upload data daily, then pay him by training adherence.

Oh, yeah, I'm Colombian and it doesn't bother me when someone uses "Columbia" or derivatives to refer to a South American country and its citizens... In fact, I find it funny when someone repeats the same thing over and over, even after being corrected for years.
BTW, Thanks Chris for the Colombia translations

^^ What's the opinion of him in Colombian media? Do they care at all (probably not as they are cashing in on Quintana and Uran)?

Also I'm not all that bothered when people say Columbia, I just hate ignorance. In fact, the first topic I ever created on Cyclingnews.com (Might've been my only one actually ) was a topic about people consistently saying Euskatel instead of Euskaltel.

Just to throw it out there, take a country like Côte d’Ivoire. They don't want to be called "Ivory Coast". Do you respect that or not?

How about a city...they want to call it Mumbai. Do you still call it "Bombay"?

My thoughts on Colombia are the same as this. If you could care less, you call it what you want..Columbia, Ivory Coast, Bombay, USSR, etc...
If you care at least a little bit, you call it Colombia, Côte d’Ivoire, Mumbai, Russia/Ukraine/etc...

It's Cote d'Ivoire everywhere except for in France right, where it is Ivory Coast? Quite funny.

Does Ukraine still exist

Edit: I see I opened a lot more threads than I thought including a your favorite car thread with supercar, mostly to upset the cycling greenies

 

[hfer07]

Heh.

Confining myself to languages using the Latin alphabet and Google translate, I got these before I got bored and gave up.

Colombia
Kolumbi
Kolumbiya
Kolonbia
Kolumbija
Colòmbia
Kolumbija
Kolumbie
Kolumbia
Kolombya
Colombie
Kolumbien
Kolonbi
An Cholóim
Kolombja
Colômbia
Columbia

I like that Irish one a lot, An Cholóim.

That said, language and spelling when discussing an international sport has a lot of complications. This is an English language forum, but we don't say Tour of Spain and Tour of Italy, generally, when we're talking about Grand Tours. Most people make the effort to use the spellings of riders name the riders themselves would use, I think, instead of anglicizing them all the time.

For your personal knowledge: The reason the Country is called COLOMBIA is because it was named as an homage to CRISTOBAL COLON (Christopher Columbus in spanish) so the founding fathers used the COLON -NOT THE COLUN - to name the Country's name. that's the etiology of the name.

the main reason the English speakers have adopted the Columbia word is actually the same reason as why Colon became Columbus in English: They took the ITALIAN ORIGIN/ROOT -which is COLUMBO & COLOMBO



You're Welcome

 

[slosada]

I no longer live in the country so my references to Colombian media are via internet, either reading or listening to some stations, but not really immersed (which, by current Colombian standards, means drown in Brazil 2014).
Most of the cycling journalists (really few these days) are still banging Giro (listening to Vuelta de la Juventud was a pain) and most of them are really biased... There is no interest on showing complete and objective information, so a negative side is a no-no when cycling is about to rise again.

 

[christopherrowe]

For your personal knowledge...

You're Welcome

Thanks! Coincidentally, the closest little town to the farm where I grew up in Kentucky is called Columbia (with a "u"), so I've looked some of what you've provided here before.

 

[TomasC]

...
My thoughts on Colombia are the same as this. If you could care less, you call it what you want..Columbia, Ivory Coast, Bombay, USSR, etc...
If you care at least a little bit, you call it Colombia, Côte d’Ivoire, Mumbai, Russia/Ukraine/etc...

Well is it not Colombia in English as well as Spanish? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colombia
I love the twist this thread is taking.

To contribute something, check this lovely song about Colombia...from a Cuban

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Perhaps the comparison that i'm about to make is a bit radical, but I find too many similarities in personality & attitude between Betancur & Frank Vandenbroucke : Both incredibly talented and blinded believing with that alone, they could get what they want, come back when they feel like, because is always a next season to bounce back & meanwhile careless, lacking the commitment & discipline inherited to the career, the uniform & team duties attached to it, difficult to deal with, rebellious without a cause, not detail orientated, so distracted by the good times & the drinking/partying/etc.....

worst comparison ever. vdb was all mad about cycling. that was anything for him. not for betancurt. also vdb wasn't lazy at all and never overweight in his prime

 

[gospina]

For your personal knowledge: The reason the Country is called COLOMBIA is because it was named as an homage to CRISTOBAL COLON (Christopher Columbus in spanish) so the founding fathers used the COLON -NOT THE COLUN - to name the Country's name. that's the etiology of the name.

the main reason the English speakers have adopted the Columbia word is actually the same reason as why Colon became Columbus in English: They took the ITALIAN ORIGIN/ROOT -which is COLUMBO & COLOMBO



You're Welcome

LOL. You beat me to it. There is also Columbia University, Washington, DC as in District of Columbia, and, obviously in this forum, HTC-Columbia/Columbia-HTC cycling teams.

There is plenty of precedence for it for english speakers.

 

[Brodinski]

Carlos should invite Andy for a round of beer pong.

 

[SafeBet]

For your personal knowledge: The reason the Country is called COLOMBIA is because it was named as an homage to CRISTOBAL COLON (Christopher Columbus in spanish) so the founding fathers used the COLON -NOT THE COLUN - to name the Country's name. that's the etiology of the name.

the main reason the English speakers have adopted the Columbia word is actually the same reason as why Colon became Columbus in English: They took the ITALIAN ORIGIN/ROOT -which is COLUMBO & COLOMBO

His italian name is Cristoforo Colombo. It's Cristóbal Colón in spanish and Christophorus Columbus in latin.


Btw, French call it Côte d'Ivoire not Ivory Coast.

 

[Jelantik]

Carlos is very young. And I don't think he is ready to sacrifice a lot yet to be the elite riders. (I'm not saying he won't). I can understand, Carlos being a foreign nationals, who lives and works in Europe with the language you don't speak everyday, must be really hard for a young talent like him. But that's a sacrifice you have to want to make to reach the top. I speak from my own experience (not in the same line of work, ofc). I understand why he wanted to stay as long as possible at home and stay as less possible in Europe. At least, he has more time living at home than me. I only go home to my country once a year. And my family and friends live thousand miles away on the other side of the world. And I know how hard it is. But that's the sacrifice that he has to make and choose, if he wants to be the top elite rider in the world. Otherwise, he might as well just waste his talent by staying at home and riding around the town with his green shirt.

Nonetheless, he should have told his team, if he needs to stay longer for whatever reason at his home. There's something called being professional. His team is already bend backward to accomodate him. That's why I said in the earlier post, it's a wasted of talent if he keeps doing this kind of behavior.

“Every situation is different, every rider’s different, but it’s true that one of the hardest things with Carlos is that he’s attached to his home and he always wants to go home early to stay as long as possible. Staying in Europe has always been difficult for him.

“We communicate a lot with him but don’t get much in return, that’s very frustrating. He didn’t take his plane, he said that he didn’t feel good and wouldn’t get on the plane, but at that point, you are dealing with something that already happened. That’s not the way it should work, you should know beforehand. You just don’t not get on the plane and not tell anyone.”

 

[karlboss]

Wow, this thread got well and truly derailed.

On Betancur, crazy talented, love his attacking racing style, but he really seems to need a team, or trainer or someone to micro manage him, which may even mean including some structured down time.

On names of nations, does anyone else find it weird that in a world so connected we persist with our own names for countries. Colombia for example, we are all good enough to pretty much call them the closest thing we can, or at least pretty close. However nations like china, we still call china, we know they don't call themselves that, so why do we persist. It's like a conversation with a guy who after 3 years of calling him rupert, he politely corrects you and lets you know it is john, you instantly say no worries rupert and get on with your day.

 

[hfer07]

Carlos is very young. And I don't think he is ready to sacrifice a lot yet to be the elite riders. (I'm not saying he won't). I can understand, Carlos being a foreign nationals, who lives and works in Europe with the language you don't speak everyday, must be really hard for a young talent like him. But that's a sacrifice you have to want to make to reach the top. I speak from my own experience (not in the same line of work, ofc). I understand why he wanted to stay as long as possible at home and stay as less possible in Europe. At least, he has more time living at home than me. I only go home to my country once a year. And my family and friends live thousand miles away on the other side of the world. And I know how hard it is. But that's the sacrifice that he has to make and choose, if he wants to be the top elite rider in the world. Otherwise, he might as well just waste his talent by staying at home and riding around the town with his green shirt.

Nonetheless, he should have told his team, if he needs to stay longer for whatever reason at his home. There's something called being professional. His team is already bend backward to accomodate him. That's why I said in the earlier post, it's a wasted of talent if he keeps doing this kind of behavior.

Entirely agreed on the Bold- He's simply not prepared to "stay & commit" as he should at the Pro-Level.

The problem for him arranging with the team more time off , means he's forcing them to allow his misbehavior- which is wrong. Like anything in life- first comes the commitment, the effort & the results-then the demands can be granted.
See- he has it all backwards!!! Carlos thought at this point that he's "entitled" to do as he wishes since he won Paris-Nice- which was superb, well considering his weight issue- but that was back in March- this is JUNE and he was scheduled in advance to perform at the designated races he was for....... I mean - April & May in Colombia having a good time and then what- ohh sh!t- I forgot I have to ready myself to be in Europe- Ohh Sh!t-I screwed up my Visa-Oh sh!t-I forgot to call my DS & manager- Oh sh!t - I'm not pulling the money to get myself in Europe & face the consequences- you know what??? I rather be here with my "hommies", having a blast & we'll see what happens afterwards- If it don't work out? screw them!!! I'm finding myself another team!!!

That's the pattern of someone so blinded by his own talent that has forgotten the most important aspect of life: Talent alone will never ever make you reach your greatness!!!

On Betancur, crazy talented, love his attacking racing style, but he really seems to need a team, or trainer or someone to micro manage him, which may even mean including some structured down time.

He has to start with HIMSELF

 

[Kokoso]

On names of nations, does anyone else find it weird that in a world so connected we persist with our own names for countries. Colombia for example, we are all good enough to pretty much call them the closest thing we can, or at least pretty close. However nations like china, we still call china, we know they don't call themselves that, so why do we persist. It's like a conversation with a guy who after 3 years of calling him rupert, he politely corrects you and lets you know it is john, you instantly say no worries rupert and get on with your day.

That comparison is well and truly derailed.

It isn't weird, as long as we use different languages. What you suggest seems wierd to me.

 

[janraaskalt]

Please, take the spelling of country names to the cafe part of the forum. Doesn't belong here in this thread, nor this part of the forum.

 

[Kokoso]

Hmm. so not post meme corrections? NEVER!!! It is the duty of every fan of the great colombian riders to correct any misspelling of Colombia! Through whatever means necessary. To be serious though, I don't think posting it in pictures is not being tolerant or anything like that.

But to get back on topic of the fat cat, Lavenu (AG2R's manager) should get his @ss to Columbia and forcibly bring Betancur back to Europe. Betancur became one of my favorite riders after the Giro, so really hope his talent doesn't go to waste.

p.s. did you see what I did there.

Imagining Lavenu finds Carlos in some dubios Colombian bar on the verge of unconciousness with syringe stucked on his forearm...takikng him to the toilette, stuck his head into bowl, hogtie him and take in the box in luggage compartment (or maybe passanger's as it would be quite small box ) to Europe. There he receives tha collar which explodes if 100 metres are surpassed so he must follow Lavenu driving car on the bike. Later he devotes to the training, collar no longer in need, training in horrible conditions, mounting velocipede, with "Eye of the tiger" on the background. All is topped with TdF win where he takes down his terrible oponent (whoever it is).

Sorry for my English.

 

[Der Effe]

The CyclingNews article about the situation yesterday included this quote:

"When contacted by directeur sportif Laurent Biondi, Betancur reportedly said that he was tired and would not line up at the Tour de Suisse (June 14-22) as originally planned."

It also said that Betancur's agent, one Giuseppe Acquadro, declined to comment on his rider's status but that Betancur would release an "explanatory statement" later in the day. If that statement was released, I haven't seen any reporting on it.

Well, if he wasn't tired already he will be from reading this thread.

 

[classicomano]

the Inner Ring @inrng · 38m

No Tour de France for Carlos Betancur, he will target the Vuelta and World Championships instead says @HectorUCiclismo

 

[markene2]

the Inner Ring @inrng · 38m

No Tour de France for Carlos Betancur, he will target the Vuelta and World Championships instead says @HectorUCiclismo

Nooo... I was looking forward to seeing him there, anyone know more about what has happend?

 

[classicomano]

He says its because of illness.