Cavendish 'Abused' by HTC

[LugHugger]

The UCI team rankings randomly counts some races but not others. In the CQ rankings HTC crush everyone else. 1st by a mile. SO they have schooled, well everybody.

And once again. If you want to take out the 2 top riders from 1 team, you have to take out the 2 top riders from ALL THE OTHER TEAMS, you plank.

SO take Nibali and Basso from Liquigas. Take Contador and Vino from Astana. Take Gilbert and VDB from OPL. Take Cancellara and Schleck from Saxobank. Take Rodriguez and Pozato away from Katusha. Take Menchov and Freire away from Rabo. Take Hushovd and Sastre away from Cervello. Take LLS and Arroyo from Caisse. Take Anton and Samu from Euskatel. Take Farrar and Ryder from Garmin. Take Gadret and Roche from Agr. Take Voeckler and Fédrigo from BBox. Take Moinard and Moncoutie from Cofidis. Take Boonen and Chavanel from Quickstep. Take Pettachi and Bole from Lampre. Take Hutarovich and Cassar from FDJ. Take Scarponi from androni. Take Mosquera and Garcia from Xacebo- Galicia

Since you are so keen to take riders away from a team and then proclaim the team to have underperformed, please tell me which of these teams come close to a Gt podium, a stage race, a win of any sort?

All these teams should quit cycling under your logic

Way to go with the name calling. So we have to use your chosen ranking system? With Greipel gone, HTC will not finish top of the CQ rankings next year- or indeed any rankings. And perhaps you could quote me claiming that HTC should quit? Don't put words in my mouth, please. I restate, HTC have schooled nobody outside of the lead out train. I am sure though that Stapleton is more than happy to be a sprint/TT team.

 

[The Hitch]

CQranking overestimates the small races though.

But Htc didnt just win that. They Crushed it. Even if you take small races away they would have won it.

They won by over 1000 points.
1. [Usa] Team HTC - Columbia 11059
2. [Ita] Liquigas - Doimo 9808
3. [Den] Team Saxo Bank 9753
4. [Rus] Team Katusha 8713

And Liqui raced all those small races as well. As did Saxo.

Shows strenght in depth.

 

[The Hitch]

Way to go with the name calling. So we have to use your chosen ranking system? With Greipel gone, HTC will not finish top of the CQ rankings next year- or indeed any rankings. And perhaps you could quote me claiming that HTC should quit? Don't put words in my mouth, please. I restate, HTC have schooled nobody outside of the lead out train. I am sure though that Stapleton is more than happy to be a sprint/TT team.

Screw the ranking system.


You said

Given the size of the team budget, imo the rest of the results have been ordinary or average.

If you want to take away 2 top riders from one team take them away from EVERY team. See the rest of the results from every team.


Without their top 2 riders. Radioshack got a stage in the Tour. Liqui a stage in the Giro.Saxo got a gt 5th place and 7th place and 1 giro stage. Astana won zilch. Katusha won zilch. Rabobank won Monteal. Garmin got two top 10s. Cofidis won zilch. Caisse won zilch. Euskatel won a stage in the Vuelta. OPL won zilch. Etc etc etc.

HTC got a podium at the Vuelta. The only Gt podium from anyone. they got 4 gt stages, thats 4 times as many stages as anyone else. They won 2 PT stage races and one prestigious non Pt stage race. No one else won a stage race. They won a classsic - GW. No one else won a classic.

So no the rest of their results have not been average. You can use UCI rankings Cq rankings, or make up your own system. Whatever you want.

Under any system you use or create "the rest of the results Colombia" will be better than "the rest of the results everyone else put together".

This is not "ordinary". This is quite possibly the greates "rest of the team" performance of all time.

 

[El Pistolero]

Screw the ranking system.


You said

If you want to take away 2 top riders from one team take them away from EVERY team. See the rest of the results from every team.


Without their top 2 riders. Radioshack got a stage in the Tour. Liqui a stage in the Giro.Saxo got a gt 5th place and 7th place and 1 giro stage. Astana won zilch. Katusha won zilch. Rabobank won Monteal. Garmin got two top 10s. Cofidis won zilch. Caisse won zilch. Euskatel won a stage in the Vuelta. OPL won zilch. Etc etc etc.

HTC got a podium at the Vuelta. The only Gt podium from anyone. they got 4 gt stages, thats 4 times as many stages as anyone else. They won 2 PT stage races and one prestigious non Pt stage race. No one else won a stage race. They won a classsic - GW. No one else won a classic.

So no the rest of their results have not been average. You can use UCI rankings Cq rankings, or make up your own system. Whatever you want.

Under any system you use or create "the rest of the results Colombia" will be better than "the rest of the results everyone else put together".

This is not "ordinary". This is quite possibly the greates "rest of the team" performance of all time.

Other teams are keeping their 2 stars or bought new ones. Greipel is leaving and Cavendish apparently not happy. Once his contract expires and he'll get a better one from a new team he'll leave as well.

 

[The Hitch]

Other teams are keeping their 2 stars or bought new ones. Greipel is leaving and Cavendish apparently not happy. Once his contract expires and he'll get a better one from a new team he'll leave as well.

The post that you quoted has absolutely nothing to do with Greipel and Cav leaving or anaything in the future. It was a responce to the other poster regarding last season.

I dont think Cav will leave. There is no story here. HTC have done everything for Cav. They had one of the greatest talents - EBH, they let him go for Cav. They make their top guys work for Cav, even P Velits. Now Greipel is leaving for Cav. Even though Greipel had a far better chance at MSR, they still took Cav instead.

Cav realises just how great they are too him. He always thanks his team. Tried to give Goss the win once. Is very happy at Colombia. Has Zabel as a mentor.

Hes not leaving. They will give him the salary he wants, and he will continue to win races.

 

[LugHugger]

I dont think Cav will leave. There is no story here. HTC have done everything for Cav. They had one of the greatest talents - EBH, they let him go for Cav. They make their top guys work for Cav, even P Velits. Now Greipel is leaving for Cav. Even though Greipel had a far better chance at MSR, they still took Cav instead.

Cav realises just how great they are too him. He always thanks his team. Tried to give Goss the win once. Is very happy at Colombia. Has Zabel as a mentor.

Hes not leaving. They will give him the salary he wants, and he will continue to win races.

This we agree on

 

[LugHugger]

Screw the ranking system.


You said

If you want to take away 2 top riders from one team take them away from EVERY team. See the rest of the results from every team.


Without their top 2 riders. Radioshack got a stage in the Tour. Liqui a stage in the Giro.Saxo got a gt 5th place and 7th place and 1 giro stage. Astana won zilch. Katusha won zilch. Rabobank won Monteal. Garmin got two top 10s. Cofidis won zilch. Caisse won zilch. Euskatel won a stage in the Vuelta. OPL won zilch. Etc etc etc.

HTC got a podium at the Vuelta. The only Gt podium from anyone. they got 4 gt stages, thats 4 times as many stages as anyone else. They won 2 PT stage races and one prestigious non Pt stage race. No one else won a stage race. They won a classsic - GW. No one else won a classic.

So no the rest of their results have not been average. You can use UCI rankings Cq rankings, or make up your own system. Whatever you want.

Under any system you use or create "the rest of the results Colombia" will be better than "the rest of the results everyone else put together".

This is not "ordinary". This is quite possibly the greates "rest of the team" performance of all time.

Actually, if I was to put together results based on omitting points scored in bunch finishes then I'm pretty confident that HTC would only just finish above Sky

 

[The Hitch]

Actually, if I was to put together results based on omitting points scored in bunch finishes then I'm pretty confident that HTC would only just finish above Sky

But remember, your supposed to take the top 2 from every team. So youve already taken Cav and Greipel out from htc. Without Cav and Greipel most of their points come from tts not bunch sprints

So i guess it could work if you elminated all the points from tts. Maybe.

 

[LugHugger]

But remember, your supposed to take the top 2 from every team. So youve already taken Cav and Greipel out from htc. Without Cav and Greipel most of their points come from tts not bunch sprints

So i guess it could work if you elminated all the points from tts. Maybe.

I just did some ridiculously simplified calculation eliminating Cavendish and Greipels points from HTC but keeping their prolific testers points in - and they are prolific - and HTC beat Sky by about 70 points but drop way down the rankings. What I was amazed to find was that EBH has scored more points this season than any of the HTC guys I had no idea he was so consistent

 

[The Hitch]

I just did some ridiculously simplified calculation eliminating Cavendish and Greipels points from HTC but keeping their prolific testers points in - and they are prolific - and HTC beat Sky by about 70 points but drop way down the rankings. What I was amazed to find was that EBH has scored more points this season than any of the HTC guys I had no idea he was so consistent

But did you eliminate the points for the top 2 in every team, or just Colombia. Of course they drop down the rankings if you take away their 2 best performers. Who doesnt.

And EBH won a stage in Tirreno. A stage in Dauphine. Came 3rd - 4th in every Eneco stage, tts, sprints and hills. Came 3rd in the Tour twice. Came 2nd in Vattenfalls. All these count for points.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

The whole thing is just a negotiating tactic.

HTC currently have the best sprinter in the world. The whole team is built around him and he gets results. Better yet, they signed a contract with him before he was established as the best sprinter in the world and therefore they don't have to pay him his market value.

On the downside for them, his contract will end after next season. Which means he'll be free to sign with a rival team, and a few halfwits on this thread aside, everyone is aware that a whole host of teams would be salivating at the thought. So for HTC the game is about keeping him on the older contract for as long as possible, while still making very sure that he signs a new contract.

From Cavendish's point of view (or more precisely from his agent's point of view) the game is about getting him onto elite cyclist money as quickly as possible (Cancellara or A. Schleck pay levels). They want to push HTC into upping his pay immediately, spending as little time as possible on his current lower paid contact. They also have a trump card: If HTC delay too long, the threat that he'll just sit out his contract and then sign for somebody else comes in to play.

But ultimately, unless HTC are having an unexpected financial disaster, he will sign a new contract with them. It will pay him a huge amount of money and he will win many more races for them. It isn't in HTC's interest to let him go - their team is focused on sprints and he's the best sprinter. And it isn't in Cavendish's interest to go - there are teams which could could give almost as much service, but none that are in a position to give him better.

 

[thehog]

Cav has a problem. He's useless as one rider. He needs a full team built around him. Sure many teams could buy him but unless they are willing to dedicated 6 other top line pursuit riders he's nothing. He can't win classics. He's only real shot are GT stages. No team is going to forsake a GC chance to sacrifice 6 riders for Cav. Not even the French teams. Today's Commenwealth road race is an example if Cav on his own. He can't even beat 3rd ranked colonial riders. It's HTC or bust.

 

[The Hitch]

Cav has a problem. He's useless as one rider. He needs a full team built around him. Sure many teams could buy him but unless they are willing to dedicated 6 other top line pursuit riders he's nothing. He can't win classics. He's only real shot are GT stages. No team is going to forsake a GC chance to sacrifice 6 riders for Cav. Not even the French teams. Today's Commenwealth road race is an example if Cav on his own. He can't even beat 3rd ranked it's HTC or bust.

And how many teams have a gc chance in the first place???

About 5 teams start with a gc chance. The other 17 teams would gladly take Cav guaranteeing stage wins, which is the most they could hope for in the first place.

 

[thehog]

And how many teams have a gc chance in the first place???

About 5 teams start with a gc chance. The other 17 teams would gladly take Cav guaranteeing stage wins, which is the most they could hope for in the first place.

Name them. Name me the teams which would take him. None. Zero. Ziltch.

 

[Mambo95]

Name them. Name me the teams which would take him. None. Zero. Ziltch.

It's easier to name the teams that wouldn't: Euskatel (for obvious reasons), Movistar (the Spanish don't really 'get' sprinters), Liquigas (they focus on GC), Team Schleck (because it's the Schlecks' team) and Saxo (if Contador survives).

The rest would dump almost any rider you choose to get their hands on him.

 

[The Hitch]

Name them. Name me the teams which would take him. None. Zero. Ziltch.

Ask and you shall recieve.


[Gbr] Sky Professional Cycling Team PRT 5775
[Fra] Ag2r - La Mondiale PRT 5649
[Fra] Cofidis, le Credit en Ligne PROF 4833
[Fra] FDJ PRT 4797
[Fra] Bbox - Bouygues Telecom PROF 4659
[Bel] Quick Step PRT 4653
[Usa] BMC Racing Team PROF 4380
[Ger] Team Milram PRT 4173
[Ita] Androni Giocattoli - Serramenti PVC Diquigiovanni 3332
[Fra] Saur - Sojasun PROF 3109
[Ned] Skil - Shimano PROF 2933
[Esp] Footon - Servetto PRT 2887
[Bel] Topsport Vlaanderen - Mercator PROF 2874
[Ita] ISD - Neri PROF 2868
[Gbr] Carmiooro - NGC PROF 2426
[Irl] Colnago - CSF Inox PROF 2297
[Ita] Acqua & Sapone - D'Angelo & Antenucci PROF 2151
[Bel] Landbouwkrediet PROF 1873
[Irl] De Rosa - Stac Plastic PROF 1683
[Fra] Bretagne - Schuller CONT 1469
[Iri] Tabriz Petrochemical Cycling Team CONT 1414
[Irl] Ceramica Flaminia - Bossini Docce PROF 1376
[Bel] Verandas Willems CONT 1260
[Ita] Miche Pro Cycling Team CONT 1165
[Fra] Roubaix - Lille Metropole CONT 1131
[Esp] Andalucia - CajaSur PROF 861
[Pol] Mroz - Active Jet CONT 749
[Cze] PSK Whirlpool - Author CONT 735
[Por] Palmeiras Resort - Prio CONT 712
[Pol] CCC - Polsat - Polkowice PROF 700
[Ukr] ISD Continental Team CONT 678
[Ger] Team NetAPP CONT 674
[Esp] Caja Rural CONT 647
[Fra] BigMat - Auber 93 CONT 582
[Cro] Loborika CONT 579
[Ned] Rabobank CT CONT 564
[Slo] Adria Mobil CONT 564
[Ger] Team Nutrixxion - Sparkasse CONT 562
[Aus] Fly V Australia CONT 537
[Col] Café de Colombia - Colombia es Pasion CONT 534
[Can] SpiderTech Presented by Planet Energy CONT 507
[Por] Barbot - Siper CONT 503
[Tpe] Giant Asia Racing Team CONT 494
[Bel] An Post - Sean Kelly CONT 466
[Por] Centro Ciclismo de Loulé - Louletano CONT 447
[Ita] CDC - Cavaliere CONT 411
[Iri] Azad University Iran CONT 411
[Bel] Palmans - Cras CONT 403
[Esp] Burgos 2016 - Castilla y Leon CONT 386
[Ned] Van Vliet - EBH - Elshof CONT 375
[Den] Team Designa Køkken - Blue Water CONT 375
[Slo] Zheroquadro - Radenska CONT 373
[Lux] Continental Team Differdange CONT 372
[Usa] Jelly Belly presented by Kenda CONT 368
[Slo] Sava CONT 365
[Aus] Team Jayco - Skins CONT 361
[Sui] Price - Custom Bikes CONT 353
[Ukr] Amore & Vita - Conad CONT 339
[Ned] Cycling Team Jo Piels CONT 326
[Den] Glud & Marstrand - LRØ Radgivning CONT 314
[Bra] Scott - Marcondes Cesar - Sao Jose dos Campos PROF 291
[Aut] Vorarlberg - Corratec CONT 291
[Usa] Team Type 1 CONT 278
[Aus] Drapac - Porsche Cycling CONT 278
[Gre] Heraklion Kastro - Murcia CONT 271
[Bel] Jong Vlaanderen - Bauknecht CONT 257
[Usa] UnitedHealthcare presented by Maxxis CONT 248
[Bul] Hemus 1896 - Vivelo CONT 245
[Bra] Funvic - Pindamonhangaba CONT 239
[Usa] Kelly Benefit Strategies CONT 239
[Rus] Itera - Katusha CONT 237
[Ser] Partizan Srbija CONT 230
[Ger] Thüringer Energie Team CONT 227
[Usa] Trek - Livestrong u23 CONT 224
[Col] UNE - EPM CONT 221
[Nor] Sparebanken Vest - Ridley CONT 215
[Por] LA - Rota dos Moveis CONT 215
[Jpn] Nippo CONT 204
[Cro] Meridiana - Kamen Team CONT 203
[Rus] Katyusha Continental Team CONT 203
[Sui] Atlas Personal - BMC CONT 203
[Kor] Seoul Cycling CONT 190
[Gre] SP Tableware CONT 188
[Nor] Joker - Bianchi CONT 168
[Usa] Jamis - Sutter Home presented by Colavita CONT 168
[Por] Madeinox - Boavista CONT 166
[Svk] Dukla Trencin - Merida CONT 159
[Aut] Arbö - KTM - Gebrüder Weiss CONT 150
[Ger] Heizomat CONT 147
[Ger] LKT Team Brandenburg CONT 144
[Kor] Geumsan Ginseng Asia CONT 143
[Est] Kalev Chocolate Team CONT 139
[Gbr] Endura Racing CONT 137
[Jpn] Team Bridgestone - Anchor CONT 137
[Rsa] MTN Energade CONT 135
[Den] Team Concordia Forsikring - Himmerland CONT 128
[Esp] Orbea CONT 123
[Arm] CKT tmit - Champion System CONT 122
[Aut] Tyrol Team CONT 121
[Jpn] Aisan Racing Team CONT 110
[Gbr] Rapha Condor - Sharp CONT 100
[Rus] Moscow CONT 96
[Gbr] Motorpoint - Marshalls Pasta 90
[Bel] Lotto - Bodysol CONT 90
[Pol] Aktio Group - Mostostal Pulawy CONT 90

 

[thehog]

That's just silly. 98% of those teams couldn't afford him. Of those that could they couldn't afford the 6 pursuit style riders he needs with him to win. Most are not ProTour so Cav couldn't ride with them in fear of not competing in at least 2 of the 3 GTs. The French teams couldn't hire him as their focus is much different. They would require him to race all over France. The same with most Italian teams. Spanish team are tradtionally GC teams. Quickstep and Radioshack only have one year so he can't go to them on a multiple year contract.

You see I'm right. There are no other teams. I challenge you to name 3 teams with the reasons why he'd go there and why they would hire him. You can't. I know.

You're just trying to show off and failing.

Ask and you shall recieve.


[Gbr] Sky Professional Cycling Team PRT 5775
[Fra] Ag2r - La Mondiale PRT 5649
[Fra] Cofidis, le Credit en Ligne PROF 4833
[Fra] FDJ PRT 4797
[Fra] Bbox - Bouygues Telecom PROF 4659
[Bel] Quick Step PRT 4653
[Usa] BMC Racing Team PROF 4380
[Ger] Team Milram PRT 4173
[Ita] Androni Giocattoli - Serramenti PVC Diquigiovanni 3332
[Fra] Saur - Sojasun PROF 3109
[Ned] Skil - Shimano PROF 2933
[Esp] Footon - Servetto PRT 2887
[Bel] Topsport Vlaanderen - Mercator PROF 2874
[Ita] ISD - Neri PROF 2868
[Gbr] Carmiooro - NGC PROF 2426
[Irl] Colnago - CSF Inox PROF 2297
[Ita] Acqua & Sapone - D'Angelo & Antenucci PROF 2151
[Bel] Landbouwkrediet PROF 1873
[Irl] De Rosa - Stac Plastic PROF 1683
[Fra] Bretagne - Schuller CONT 1469
[Iri] Tabriz Petrochemical Cycling Team CONT 1414
[Irl] Ceramica Flaminia - Bossini Docce PROF 1376
[Bel] Verandas Willems CONT 1260
[Ita] Miche Pro Cycling Team CONT 1165
[Fra] Roubaix - Lille Metropole CONT 1131
[Esp] Andalucia - CajaSur PROF 861
[Pol] Mroz - Active Jet CONT 749
[Cze] PSK Whirlpool - Author CONT 735
[Por] Palmeiras Resort - Prio CONT 712
[Pol] CCC - Polsat - Polkowice PROF 700
[Ukr] ISD Continental Team CONT 678
[Ger] Team NetAPP CONT 674
[Esp] Caja Rural CONT 647
[Fra] BigMat - Auber 93 CONT 582
[Cro] Loborika CONT 579
[Ned] Rabobank CT CONT 564
[Slo] Adria Mobil CONT 564
[Ger] Team Nutrixxion - Sparkasse CONT 562
[Aus] Fly V Australia CONT 537
[Col] Café de Colombia - Colombia es Pasion CONT 534
[Can] SpiderTech Presented by Planet Energy CONT 507
[Por] Barbot - Siper CONT 503
[Tpe] Giant Asia Racing Team CONT 494
[Bel] An Post - Sean Kelly CONT 466
[Por] Centro Ciclismo de Loulé - Louletano CONT 447
[Ita] CDC - Cavaliere CONT 411
[Iri] Azad University Iran CONT 411
[Bel] Palmans - Cras CONT 403
[Esp] Burgos 2016 - Castilla y Leon CONT 386
[Ned] Van Vliet - EBH - Elshof CONT 375
[Den] Team Designa Køkken - Blue Water CONT 375
[Slo] Zheroquadro - Radenska CONT 373
[Lux] Continental Team Differdange CONT 372
[Usa] Jelly Belly presented by Kenda CONT 368
[Slo] Sava CONT 365
[Aus] Team Jayco - Skins CONT 361
[Sui] Price - Custom Bikes CONT 353
[Ukr] Amore & Vita - Conad CONT 339
[Ned] Cycling Team Jo Piels CONT 326
[Den] Glud & Marstrand - LRØ Radgivning CONT 314
[Bra] Scott - Marcondes Cesar - Sao Jose dos Campos PROF 291
[Aut] Vorarlberg - Corratec CONT 291
[Usa] Team Type 1 CONT 278
[Aus] Drapac - Porsche Cycling CONT 278
[Gre] Heraklion Kastro - Murcia CONT 271
[Bel] Jong Vlaanderen - Bauknecht CONT 257
[Usa] UnitedHealthcare presented by Maxxis CONT 248
[Bul] Hemus 1896 - Vivelo CONT 245
[Bra] Funvic - Pindamonhangaba CONT 239
[Usa] Kelly Benefit Strategies CONT 239
[Rus] Itera - Katusha CONT 237
[Ser] Partizan Srbija CONT 230
[Ger] Thüringer Energie Team CONT 227
[Usa] Trek - Livestrong u23 CONT 224
[Col] UNE - EPM CONT 221
[Nor] Sparebanken Vest - Ridley CONT 215
[Por] LA - Rota dos Moveis CONT 215
[Jpn] Nippo CONT 204
[Cro] Meridiana - Kamen Team CONT 203
[Rus] Katyusha Continental Team CONT 203
[Sui] Atlas Personal - BMC CONT 203
[Kor] Seoul Cycling CONT 190
[Gre] SP Tableware CONT 188
[Nor] Joker - Bianchi CONT 168
[Usa] Jamis - Sutter Home presented by Colavita CONT 168
[Por] Madeinox - Boavista CONT 166
[Svk] Dukla Trencin - Merida CONT 159
[Aut] Arbö - KTM - Gebrüder Weiss CONT 150
[Ger] Heizomat CONT 147
[Ger] LKT Team Brandenburg CONT 144
[Kor] Geumsan Ginseng Asia CONT 143
[Est] Kalev Chocolate Team CONT 139
[Gbr] Endura Racing CONT 137
[Jpn] Team Bridgestone - Anchor CONT 137
[Rsa] MTN Energade CONT 135
[Den] Team Concordia Forsikring - Himmerland CONT 128
[Esp] Orbea CONT 123
[Arm] CKT tmit - Champion System CONT 122
[Aut] Tyrol Team CONT 121
[Jpn] Aisan Racing Team CONT 110
[Gbr] Rapha Condor - Sharp CONT 100
[Rus] Moscow CONT 96
[Gbr] Motorpoint - Marshalls Pasta 90
[Bel] Lotto - Bodysol CONT 90
[Pol] Aktio Group - Mostostal Pulawy CONT 90

 

[ScottyMuser]

But did you eliminate the points for the top 2 in every team, or just Colombia. Of course they drop down the rankings if you take away their 2 best performers. Who doesnt.

And EBH won a stage in Tirreno. A stage in Dauphine. Came 3rd - 4th in every Eneco stage, tts, sprints and hills. Came 3rd in the Tour twice. Came 2nd in Vattenfalls. All these count for points.

teams that we aren't discussing losing their best 2 riders?

 

[The Hitch]

teams that we aren't discussing losing their best 2 riders?

Yes. If you want to take riders away from Colombia for the 2010 season then declare them crap, you have to do the same for every team.



You cant for example, say "Szmyd is a crap rider" because he only came 50th or whatever in the Giro, because all his energies were spent riding for BAsso.

But this is exactly what you are doing with people like Renshaw, Goss, etc. You (or the other posters) are taking the points totals for Renshaw and concluding that he didnt do too well. Why are Renshaws or Gosses points so low? Why is Marks best result a 10th in a tour stage?

Think about that for a second

Here is the answer.

Because Renshaw didnt ride for himself. He rode for Cav. If Cav wasnt there he would have won stages. He would have got more points. Same for Goss.

This is how Colombia raced all their races. You dont get poiints for dragging Cav 200km a day. You only get points based on your finishing. At the same time you cant judge Renshaw as a crap rider because he came 10th. Because you know (or at least should know) that if Cav wasnt there Renshaw would be getting far better results.

If you take them out then for all intents and purposes, Colombia rode less races than Andalucia Caja SUr. FOr all intents and purposes they werent even invited to the Tour de France or the TDU, etc. Because those races were spent riding for Greipel or Cav, so the HTC riders werent allowed to show their own talents off.

So it is extremely impressive that without the riders on which everything was sacrificed, Colombia STILL managed to get a GT podium, 3 stage races, a classic and 4 gt stages.

To show just how good this is, if you take the top 2 out of every team, no other team got a gt podium, no other team won a stage race, no other team won a classic and no other team won more than 1 gt stage.

 

[flicker]

Cav has a problem. He's useless as one rider. He needs a full team built around him. Sure many teams could buy him but unless they are willing to dedicated 6 other top line pursuit riders he's nothing. He can't win classics. He's only real shot are GT stages. No team is going to forsake a GC chance to sacrifice 6 riders for Cav. Not even the French teams. Today's Commenwealth road race is an example if Cav on his own. He can't even beat 3rd ranked it's HTC or bust.

I do not understand the hate for Cavendish.. the guy is awesome,he has a mouth and ego but thats par for the course with sprinters. When it comes right down to it Cavendish is a winner pure and simple. His 2 finger salute to the journalists was pure outrageousness and well deserved by the journalists.
He is a class act and a person I would hang out with, he is comfortable in his own skin and has self-worth.

 

[Jamsque]

I get that you hate Cav, hog, but honestly you are really over-doing it here. No sprinter wins in a vacuum, every single one of them has people working for them all day for most of their wins. I'll grant you that Cav needs a little more support than the Freires and McEwens of this world, but he doesn't need 'six pursuit riders' to win. At the Vuelta he more than proved that he can win without a lead-out train.

 

[zapata]

Cav has a problem. He's useless as one rider. He needs a full team built around him. Sure many teams could buy him but unless they are willing to dedicated 6 other top line pursuit riders he's nothing. He can't win classics. He's only real shot are GT stages. No team is going to forsake a GC chance to sacrifice 6 riders for Cav. Not even the French teams. Today's Commenwealth road race is an example if Cav on his own. He can't even beat 3rd ranked it's HTC or bust.

Perhaps we shouldn't make conclusions based on one race, but nonetheless, it's rather telling, I think. Davis and Cavendish both did the vuelta, both did the WC, so should be at similar form. The commonwealth race was entirely flat, I gather, and half the distance of Milan-San Remo, yet Cavendish was dropped. May be that he doesn't necessarily need a team in the finish, but it seems he certainly needs a team to get there.

 

[LugHugger]

That's just silly. 98% of those teams couldn't afford him. Of those that could they couldn't afford the 6 pursuit style riders he needs with him to win. Most are not ProTour so Cav couldn't ride with them in fear of not competing in at least 2 of the 3 GTs. The French teams couldn't hire him as their focus is much different. They would require him to race all over France. The same with most Italian teams. Spanish team are tradtionally GC teams. Quickstep and Radioshack only have one year so he can't go to them on a multiple year contract.

You see I'm right. There are no other teams. I challenge you to name 3 teams with the reasons why he'd go there and why they would hire him. You can't. I know.

You're just trying to show off and failing.

I'll step in and have a go. Just for the hell of it because I think this is just the opening shot in getting a contract bump. See what you think....Cav to one of these teams after his contract expires for the start of 2012:

1) Sky. They have the pursuiters and the money. Sure, Brailsford would have to do the fastest U turn in the West but a Brit that wins on Sky. That's a big carrot not to chase. Depends on how big Brailsford's nuts are.
2) BMC. They have the budget to put the team together. They have a decent enough lead out as it stands now and Phinney to come.
3) Quickstep/OPL combination. Between them, they have the rouleurs. If and when they combine at the end of next year, dump Tom and his Hollywood salary to bring in Cavendish. Rob Peter to pay Paul.

How did I do?

 

[thehog]

I'll step in and have a go. Just for the hell of it because I think this is just the opening shot in getting a contract bump. See what you think....Cav to one of these teams after his contract expires for the start of 2012:

1) Sky. They have the pursuiters and the money. Sure, Brailsford would have to do the fastest U turn in the West but a Brit that wins on Sky. That's a big carrot not to chase. Depends on how big Brailsford's nuts are.
2) BMC. They have the budget to put the team together. They have a decent enough lead out as it stands now and Phinney to come.
3) Quickstep/OPL combination. Between them, they have the rouleurs. If and when they combine at the end of next year, dump Tom and his Hollywood salary to bring in Cavendish. Rob Peter to pay Paul.

How did I do?

I give you Sky and thats it. Even then I still say no. Sky have openly stated there goal is to win the Tour in 5 years. Quickstep are pulling stumps end of 2011 so they cant hire him. BMC no chance. What's Cadel going to do when his team a riding for Cav? They also just have the budget to keep Cadel, George and Phinney. No money for Cav on a 4 year deal.

Still think I'm right. The guy is not worth the investment. Hell of a stage winner but zero ROI. I doubt any Italian or French teams want a loud mouth Brit on there teams. They won't even understand him with that accent.

 

[The Hitch]

That's just silly. 98% of those teams couldn't afford him. Of those that could they couldn't afford the 6 pursuit style riders he needs with him to win. Most are not ProTour so Cav couldn't ride with them in fear of not competing in at least 2 of the 3 GTs. The French teams couldn't hire him as their focus is much different. They would require him to race all over France. The same with most Italian teams. Spanish team are tradtionally GC teams. Quickstep and Radioshack only have one year so he can't go to them on a multiple year contract.

You see I'm right. There are no other teams. I challenge you to name 3 teams with the reasons why he'd go there and why they would hire him. You can't. I know.

You're just trying to show off and failing.

Its not very nice, when someone puts in that much work to dismiss them like that

You asked for teams that would take him. I gave you a list. Every last one of those teams would take him.

You asked for teams that would take him. You then say Radioshack wont take him because they have only a year left . Why would that stop them from taking him?

French teams wouldnt take Cav? What the hell were Agr doing basing their whole season around an Irish man? I think every one of those French teams would take him. Astana would take him.

I dont think Cav needs a whole team arround him. What the team does is they make it a sprint. Half the stages in the Tour will end up as sprints anyway. they are just too flat to let a break go, and teams like Garmin, Lampre will do the pulling if Cav doesnrt have a team.

Also Cavs team guarantees that he wins stages. This doesnt mean he cant win stages without them, it just means he is even more certain to win stages when he is with them. He can win stages on his own. The TDF stages in Bordeaux and Paris showed this.