Cavendish angry

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Dropped by his leadout man again, and mugged by Weylandt

Stumach problems at the start of the Giro, that costs you a lot of power. He has a valid excuse

 

[Andy99]

Looks like Andre is heading to Milram next year then!

Not sure who his last lead out man was today, but you could see him shaking his head when he realised Griepel hadn't held his wheel!

Shame really, I quite like the guy, but the last two days show that he just doesn't cut it when the pressure is on in the big races.

 

[Franklin]

Shame really, I quite like the guy, but the last two days show that he just doesn't cut it when the pressure is on in the big races.

Oh come on, thats rubbish. he won 4 stages in one GT already (and he won a GT points jersey, cav didn't do that yet!), so that one just doesn't fly. He isn't nearly as good as Cav, sure, but what you say is just nonsense.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

FWIW, similar dominance has been done by other sprinters as well, so I wouldn't call it dificult to find other examples. if a sprinter is a lot better than the competition winning several TdF stages is actually "expected".

A few "recent" examples of sprinters winning 3+ stages in the TdF in one season (some more than once): Tom Steels, Van Poppel, Petacchi, Cipolini and McEwen. And these guys won tons of stages in other GT's as well, so it doesn't stop there.

I definitely conceed he is the all time great British sprinter. On a world stage, his 6 shooter definitely ranks him out as very special, but if he doesn't repeat it or crown it with a points jersey of a GT it's hard to rank him as one of the all time great.

I'm sure he will make it though, enough talent. Only hope he keeps his head on his shoulders.

Err, doesn't repeat it? He won 4 the year before. And 5 giro stages in 2 years. And a monument. And he's still elligible for the white jersey.

It is utterly disingenuous to pretend that there are many people who come anywhere near that.

Of those that you list, although they are all 'great' cyclists, only Cipo has the record to compare, obviously earned with a different primary focus.

 

[Franklin]

Err, doesn't repeat it? He won 4 the year before. And 5 giro stages in 2 years. And a monument. And he's still elligible for the white jersey.

It is utterly disingenuous to pretend that there are many people who come anywhere near that.

Of those that you list, although they are all 'great' cyclists, only Cipo has the record to compare, obviously earned with a different primary focus.

no it isn't disingenious at all. Somehow I think you lack a bit of cycling history. Did you even check the people I listed? Did you even look at the points jerseys they won? Or the classics some of them won?

Steels won: 4 national titles (Belgium titles arent easy), 3 classics, 9 TdF stages
Petacchi won an eye watering 49 GT stages, 2 italy points jerseys, 1 spanish. Add Milan san Remo and paris Tours
Van Poppel: 9 tdf, 9 spain, 4 italy and the TdF green Jersey
Mcewen: 12 TdF, 12 Italy and three green jerseys. Oh and 5 times Paris Brussels just to name something.

I just won't even try to count the Maillot Jaunes and Maglia Rossos between these guys.

If he repeats another year his palmares might rank above a Steels and a Van Poppel, but atm it's just not there yet. Thats just looking at current palmares.

Pettachi, Cippo and McEwen, It's rather tough to uphold the idea that just another top season bypasses them. Yes Cav is good, yes Cav might be in their league, but quite frankly he isn't there yet.

Dang, if I just look at Petacchi and then hear you say Cav is already beyond him... you are joking or you just haven't got an idea who Alessandro Petacchi is.

 

[afpm90]

Looks like Andre is heading to Milram next year then!

Millram is probably going to end and they already have Gerald Ciolek. I don't think Greipel will go to a team to share leadership again.

Not sure who his last lead out man was today, but you could see him shaking his head when he realised Griepel hadn't held his wheel!

His last lead out man was Matthew Goss, as it'll be along the rest of the Giro.

Shame really, I quite like the guy, but the last two days show that he just doesn't cut it when the pressure is on in the big races.

I guess you didn't watch last years Vuelta a Espana.

 

[Jamsque]

I agree with what Franklin is saying here, crowing Cav as an all time great already doesn't make any sense. Certainly he's the best British sprinter of all time already, but until he can either nab multiple green jerseys like McEwen and Zabel or rack up insane win totals like Petacchi and Cipollini I don't think he even makes it in to the conversation.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

He needs to grow up. He's disrespecting his opponents and the sport with his attitude. Taking a breath before opening his mouth would help.

He may grow up one day. That day is not today. And not likely to be tomorrow, either.

I wonder if I could sprint like that if I could resist the conceit (that he cannot). I hope so. I'll never know.

 

[Kender]

To be fair to Greipel, he's simply trying to compete with someone miles out of his league, and inviting unflattering comparison.

It's very difficult to find examples of sprinters reaching the automatic win status a fit Cav has on a flat stage regardless of the competition in the past, he's picked up enough grand tour stage wins to hit all time great status for that type of rider already. Obviously when Andrei turns up and ******s it up as often as he wins (more often in this race so far) he's going to look a chump, but you have to remember there are plenty of great sprinters who never hit that automatic level, just look at Zabel, 6 green jerseys, only 12 stages.

i guess his automatic level kicked in after he started doping (self confessed)

 

[Kender]

Cav still has a few years to go before going down in history as a legendary sprinter. if he keeps working the way he has it will happen though

he has earned the right to be named as a great sprinter already though, bagging 6 wins in one tour earned him that right

p.s. oh how i cringe whenever Zabel is named as a legend. self confessed doper, never sanctioned. forever tainted imo (i was a Zabel fan before he confessed)

 

[pedaling squares]

Dang, if I just look at Petacchi and then hear you say Cav is already beyond him... you are joking or you just haven't got an idea who Alessandro Petacchi is.

I wonder if Petacchi could have bagged six stages in 2003 if he hadn't sat up when he hit the first mountain. IIRC he won four stages within the first week or thereabouts. I think there were a couple of stages in the central massif region that his Fassa train was well suited for, and of course the final stage could have gone his way. He was just blowing them away from a few hundred metres out that year. But... woulda coulda shoulda, first you have to get over the hillls.

EDIT: I forgot about Greipel's stomach bug. In that case he's not making Cav sound spot on at all. If he was weakened by a bug and he's still in the mix, that's pretty damn good.

 

[Oldman]

Cav still has a few years to go before going down in history as a legendary sprinter. if he keeps working the way he has it will happen though

he has earned the right to be named as a great sprinter already though, bagging 6 wins in one tour earned him that right

p.s. oh how i cringe whenever Zabel is named as a legend. self confessed doper, never sanctioned. forever tainted imo (i was a Zabel fan before he confessed)

The guy is fast but we've just seen the first season with some less than ideal conditions for him. A really noteworthy career would extend through some trying times, weak lead outs and a few hard crashes. He's still got a long way to go to be a legend and adversity most definitely awaits him, like every rider.

 

[Franklin]

I'm still laughing

I didn't even mention the likes of Zabel, Bontempi and Abduzhaparov.

And what about Hushovd? I say he also has a comparable palmares with three jerseys under his belt (2 TdF and 1 Spain).

Freire is a special one as well. Definitely a sprinter, Cav will dream of having a palmares as him, but for the GT sprinter discussion I gladly leave him out

So atm it isn't hard to find sprinters with a similar palmares. I think Cav has the potential to surpass a lot of them, but as said before, it hasn't happened yet.

 

[Winterfold]

Stumach problems at the start of the Giro, that costs you a lot of power. He has a valid excuse

Yes, I think he does.

But earlier in the year, Cav was ill too. So now he looks a bit foolish because of what he said to Weylandt, who won the race from being clever, and still very quick. However both Cav and Greipel are still fast and will win many times again.

The whole thing does not reflect well on either of them, but they are both young men, who do a job where being cocky to the point of arrogant, helps you win.

While it is a bit of fun for us old guys that they shoot their mouths off to the press in a way footballers or rugby players are not allowed, I think the team management could have handled this better... if a nice clean corporate image is what they want.

Maybe they are both the kind of guy who need to be angry to win, and winning is all that counts?

I don't know, but it makes cycling more compelling.

 

[Franklin]

I just had to think back to this thread and about how Cav was compared to Ale-jet ^^

Cav has a LONG way to go to be as big as Allesandro.

 

[Hawkwood]

I just had to think back to this thread and about how Cav was compared to Ale-jet ^^

Cav has a LONG way to go to be as big as Allesandro.

Yes of course this palmares at 25 is rubbish:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Career_accomplishments_of_Mark_Cavendish

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Yes of course this palmares at 25 is rubbish:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Career_accomplishments_of_Mark_Cavendish

he isn't saying his palmares is rubbish at 25. just not anywhere close to that of petacchi in his career

 

[Angliru]

There has been no mention of the fact that Petacchi won 9 Giro stages one year. That in itself is astounding. Give me a Petacchi in his prime over Cav any day. Much more class. Of course his success came later in his career so he was at an age where he could likely appreciate it more. I just cannot forget the devastation and presence of the Fassa Bortolo train with Flecha and Cancellara driving the peloton. They were a true force.

 

[derailleur]

Maybe he's incredibly pi**ed off that he's been told to ride the EPO tour (sorry Amgen Tour Of California) rather than the Giro.

If he is, then he's a total ****ing ***.

You can't grow your brand recognition by pitching to the same audience all the time. Becoming famous in America is worth a lot more to him and his team than showing up in Italy again.

 

[Mambo95]

I just had to think back to this thread and about how Cav was compared to Ale-jet ^^

Cav has a LONG way to go to be as big as Allesandro.

At Cavendish's age (25), Petacchi's palamares consisted of a stage of the Tour of Langkawi. And that's it.

Compare them when they've both retired.

 

[ulrikmm]

When Cav retires, he can go back to the zoo. LOL

 

[Big GMaC]

At Cavendish's age (25), Petacchi's palamares consisted of a stage of the Tour of Langkawi.

And that was a hilly stage