Cavendish: class of his own?

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Mar 13, 2009
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Dear Wiggo said:
They were the next day - his test was the day before.
ehehheh. point still stands, even if he tapers. but generous of Dear Wiggo to de-fuse potential propaganda denials with criticisms of my accuracy on trivial details.

ir Rata or Ianfra wish to come here, and expect The Clinic 12, to accept their propaganda, they have another thing coming.

As the immortal BroDeal set in his inimitable and pithy manner, "Don't post crap"
 
Jan 20, 2013
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ianfra said:
There is no chance of Cav being a doper. There is as much probability of him being a doper than there is of me being a pork sausage.
I think you're telling "porkies". And for all none British nationals this is cockney rhyming slang for - pork pies that rhymes with lies...
 
Jan 20, 2013
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Dear Wiggo said:
Good friggin' grief. Back up a bit here, please?

Someone competes for 8 years at an international level and then the day before the World champs, blows the 50% Hct rule for the first time ever (??) and then gets a dispensation so there's nothing suspicious and he was around that level naturally?

Man alive.

Either one of us is incredibly cynical, or one of us is incredibly gullible.

1996 is the year the 50% Hct rule was introduced.
Rob Hayles, no comment ..........due to British libel laws.
 
blackcat said:
ehehheh. point still stands, even if he tapers. but generous of Dear Wiggo to de-fuse potential propaganda denials with criticisms of my accuracy on trivial details.

ir Rata or Ianfra wish to come here, and expect The Clinic 12, to accept their propaganda, they have another thing coming.

As the immortal BroDeal set in his inimitable and pithy manner, "Don't post crap"
I think a lot of casual visitors would be more convinced of your cases if you showed a willingness to consider other positions rather than dismiss them as "crap"...at least Dear Wiggo insists on accuracy.
For the record, Brailsford said he believed Hailes denials (but he never picked him for UK team again) ZTP anyone?
 
Mar 13, 2009
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he already has Manning. he needed to balance his team pursuit squad with potential candidates for the oylympiad out from the current one.

context.

brailsford knows the game.

he runs the game
 
Jan 20, 2013
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blackcat said:
lets try this shall we.

go elsewhere with your chariots of fire propaganda dude. we have seen it all before. doping in and of itself, is not a major character flaw and crime, thus, cannot defame a bikie for alluding to PEDs in his/her armory. now, trottle on back to the BC hq and leave us alone.
Point taken, but it is not that simple BC. Doping is controlled by institutions, it is not a free for all....

As you state above Brailsford runs the game?
 
Jul 28, 2009
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blackcat said:
As the immortal BroDeal set in his inimitable and pithy manner, "Don't post crap"
That puts you in a difficult situation about 50% of the time then. Banging on about 50.3 is just that. Hayles might have been doped to the eyeballs but Hct is a crude and imprecise measure at the best of times which is why it is used the way it is.
 
cav

while i am not as certain as ianfra that cav is 100% pure i look to recent

conversation ...............nothing about cav......................just dubious

link to rob hayles

how many in the peloton would look so genuine?

Mark L
 
Feb 14, 2011
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blackcat said:
lets try this shall we.

i think if Hayles had a naturally high, over 50 crit, it would have shown on all the tests he had over the years, At the time there was a good explanation for it, the Manchester Worlds were in three weeks, and they served as the BC qualification races for the Athens selection, (team at Olympics)

see, whose version reads more applicable?

go elsewhere with your chariots of fire propaganda dude. we have seen it all before. doping in and of itself, is not a major character flaw and crime, thus, cannot defame a bikie for alluding to PEDs in his/her armory. now, trottle on back to the BC hq and leave us alone.
Hayles' going over the 50% limit shows incredible incompetence from the coaches & doctors at British Cycling. If they were testing heamatocrit on a regular basis they would have known how close Hayles was to the limit. Brailsford and his team was incompetent to allow Hayles to fail the test on the eve of the World Championships. Brailsford was equally incompetent when he hired Dr Leinders. He was also incompetent to hire so many riders & coaches who were later proven to be dopers.
 
Apr 20, 2012
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rata de sentina said:
That puts you in a difficult situation about 50% of the time then. Banging on about 50.3 is just that. Hayles might have been doped to the eyeballs but Hct is a crude and imprecise measure at the best of times which is why it is used the way it is.
True, thats why the release of the percentage of isoforms - if tested for it - would be a nice sign of openness BC is on about, wouldnt you agree?
 
Jan 20, 2013
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Retro Trev said:
Hayles' going over the 50% limit shows incredible incompetence from the coaches & doctors at British Cycling. If they were testing heamatocrit on a regular basis they would have known how close Hayles was to the limit. Brailsford and his team was incompetent to allow Hayles to fail the test on the eve of the World Championships. Brailsford was equally incompetent when he hired Dr Leinders. He was also incompetent to hire so many riders & coaches who were later proven to be dopers.
Got him a first ever British TdF winner though didn't it? I say the guy was a genius.
 
Dear Wiggo said:
Good friggin' grief. Back up a bit here, please?

Someone competes for 8 years at an international level and then the day before the World champs, blows the 50% Hct rule for the first time ever (??) and then gets a dispensation so there's nothing suspicious and he was around that level naturally?

Man alive.

Either one of us is incredibly cynical, or one of us is incredibly gullible.

1996 is the year the 50% Hct rule was introduced.
Sorry for any faux pas. Didn't mean to rattle your cage and awaken you from your beauty sleep.:p

I'm just going by the numbers, and right now I don't feel like digging deeper.(Like finding out who Hayles is for example:p) 50.3% could be high, but that depends on the margin of error in the apparatus used, the procedure, his true value(measured vs real) etc.

I might have a look at your thread for the details a little later. But to me one test of 50,3 doesn't sound like much, especially if he since received a dispensation. Of course there might be something fishy with the procedures for getting dispensation.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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ToreBear said:
Sorry for any faux pas. Didn't mean to rattle your cage and awaken you from your beauty sleep.:p

I'm just going by the numbers, and right now I don't feel like digging deeper.(Like finding out who Hayles is for example:p) 50.3% could be high, but that depends on the margin of error in the apparatus used, the procedure, his true value(measured vs real) etc.

I might have a look at your thread for the details a little later. But to me one test of 50,3 doesn't sound like much, especially if he since received a dispensation. Of course there might be something fishy with the procedures for getting dispensation.
I need a coma for beauty, not sleep.

The Hayles thread is where I took discussion.
 
Dear Wiggo said:
I need a coma for beauty, not sleep.

The Hayles thread is where I took discussion.
Well your cat is cute though!;)

Just realized I converted my hgb wrong. 16,5*3=49,5, but I think your supposed to round it to the nearest whole number. That means I'm at perfect 50%hct!:D
 
Mar 13, 2009
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horsinabout said:
Got him a first ever British TdF winner though didn't it? I say the guy was a genius. Got away with it too, extra special.
+ a kighthood.

for gollum

my precious
my p e ds
 
Jul 17, 2012
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Cav is a great bike racer.

One of the reasons he wins is because he's so flipping small so more aero, gets a bigger draft and in turn gives a crap tow to anyone following his wheel. I also reckon it means people don't spot him....until its too late.

Also great street smarts: his timing of his kick, then the timing of second kick, and also a real knack for finding the right wheel.

He's also got very good bike-handling skills.

Another factor is his massive cajones. Guy races like a flipping demon.

And lastly is his physical ability, which is impressive, but he also puts out much lower numbers than opther sprinters because his size means he can and still go faster. Bit like the German track sprinters getting spanked by much smaller Brits, it's sheer torque pushing a big lump against a smaller, lighter rider being propelled by less power but at greater speed.

Sort of like the little mid-engined Lotus cars against the big, front engined powerhouses back in the day in F1.

So while I'm sure an array of drugs would enhance Cav's performance, perhaps the usual ones you'd expect a sprinter to be popping like steroids aren't as helpful to Cav. Unlike Greipel for example.

The guy is a phenom, a hugely naturally-talented athlete with an irrepressible thirst for winning. I guess being a Brit he's not popular but one hell of a rider.
 
JimmyFingers said:
Cav is a great bike racer.

One of the reasons he wins is because he's so flipping small so more aero, gets a bigger draft and in turn gives a crap tow to anyone following his wheel. I also reckon it means people don't spot him....until its too late.

Also great street smarts: his timing of his kick, then the timing of second kick, and also a real knack for finding the right wheel.

He's also got very good bike-handling skills.

Another factor is his massive cajones. Guy races like a flipping demon.

And lastly is his physical ability, which is impressive, but he also puts out much lower numbers than opther sprinters because his size means he can and still go faster. Bit like the German track sprinters getting spanked by much smaller Brits, it's sheer torque pushing a big lump against a smaller, lighter rider being propelled by less power but at greater speed.

Sort of like the little mid-engined Lotus cars against the big, front engined powerhouses back in the day in F1.

So while I'm sure an array of drugs would enhance Cav's performance, perhaps the usual ones you'd expect a sprinter to be popping like steroids aren't as helpful to Cav. Unlike Greipel for example.

The guy is a phenom, a hugely naturally-talented athlete with an irrepressible thirst for winning. I guess being a Brit he's not popularHERE IN THE CLINIC but one hell of a rider.
I just clarified that for you, Jimmy.....Cav is massively popular thoughout Europe. (You could also have added how good he is at leading his team....this is the not the first time he has started in a new team and got them to gel around him)
 

Dr. Maserati

BANNED
Jun 19, 2009
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coinneach said:
I just clarified that for you, Jimmy.....Cav is massively popular thoughout Europe. (You could also have added how good he is at leading his team....this is the not the first time he has started in a new team and got them to gel around him)
Funny that Cav is so unpopular here in the Clinic that you have to troll this troll thread that you started.
 
Jul 17, 2012
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Just wanted to clarify my post above: like any rider Cav isn't above suspicion but as ever I give him the benefit of the doubt. Bit like Sagan I see him as a freak of nature, perfectly designed for he does. Like McEwan says, in the drops he's already effortlessly in the perfect aero position. His body shape could have been designed in a lab: big head, narrow shoulders, smally body. I imagine shorter legs give him an acceleration advantage over taller, bigger riders.

Coupled with that is a real mentality, a real determination to win ruthlessly. It means he's never beaten,never backs down, will always try his absolute best. He uses his teammates and more for motivation. He doesn't ride for himself, he rides for other and this fuels his desire to win. A big contrast there with Wiggins, who you feel only rides for himself.

So while I'm sure PEDs would benefit Cav, I also don't think he needs them to do what he does. His palmares is unquestionable from early on, and there are plenty of reasons why he is exceptional at what he does. While a 3 week tour is tough on everyone, Cav stays sheltered in the peloton, never has to take a turn on the front of go back for bottles, and yes mountains are extremely tough for sprinters, to make sure you're within the limit....

But I never look at Cav and think NOT NORMAL.

My opinion of course. I know he raced/races for some dodgy teams.
 
Dec 13, 2012
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JimmyFingers said:
Just wanted to clarify my post above: like any rider Cav isn't above suspicion but as ever I give him the benefit of the doubt. Bit like Sagan I see him as a freak of nature, perfectly designed for he does. Like McEwan says, in the drops he's already effortlessly in the perfect aero position. His body shape could have been designed in a lab: big head, narrow shoulders, smally body. I imagine shorter legs give him an acceleration advantage over taller, bigger riders.

Coupled with that is a real mentality, a real determination to win ruthlessly. It means he's never beaten,never backs down, will always try his absolute best. He uses his teammates and more for motivation. He doesn't ride for himself, he rides for other and this fuels his desire to win. A big contrast there with Wiggins, who you feel only rides for himself.

So while I'm sure PEDs would benefit Cav, I also don't think he needs them to do what he does. His palmares is unquestionable from early on, and there are plenty of reasons why he is exceptional at what he does. While a 3 week tour is tough on everyone, Cav stays sheltered in the peloton, never has to take a turn on the front of go back for bottles, and yes mountains are extremely tough for sprinters, to make sure you're within the limit....

But I never look at Cav and think NOT NORMAL.

My opinion of course. I know he raced/races for some dodgy teams.
The sheer consistency over a long time is, NOT NORMAL.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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SundayRider said:
The sheer consistency over a long time is, NOT NORMAL.
Most legendary athletes were/are consistently great over long periods of time. Hence: Legends

Pelé
Ali
Merckx
etc.
 
Dr. Maserati said:
Funny that Cav is so unpopular here in the Clinic that you have to troll this troll thread that you started.
Wow...if you call that trolling!!!!

I'm still interested in a reply about Jalabert: couldn't see him name in dopology, so maybe Cavendish is in a class of 2?

(In my book, if you're done for doping, EVERY result you have had is suspect)
 

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