Sez the guy who like to bash Pinot as a pastime
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Sez the guy who like to bash Pinot as a pastime
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I'm sorry but this is terrible ranking. No one here is denying he was a great rider. But for 4 long years, he was definitely bad. In 2019 7 DNF. Half of the WT stage races unfinished. That's not even good enough to be a teammate.
Yeah...and given that this is a Clinic thread, and therefore centred around doping, what are you suggesting? That he stopped doping in 2017, didn't bother for 4 years, found himself unable to get a proper contract, considered retiring...and all because he decided to stop the doping that had brought him such succes???
Likely???
More likely than him suffering a debilitating long-term illness?
Likely???
More likely than him suffering a debilitating long-term illness?
Reminds quite a lot of Gilbert. Was a shadow of his former self at BMC etc, then rejoined Quickstep and started doing extraordinary things like winning RVV from 60+kms out.
I am way more suspicious of Matthews and Colbrelli at the moment.
Except Cavendish isn't doing extraordinary things.
He's doing what he did before but with an amazing lead out team and very mediocre competition.
Every other stage he is either invisible or in the grupetto trying to make the time cut off.
He's not doing a Colbrelli.
This is what I don't get. He was somehow on some amazing program from 2008-2016 that for 8 years had remained undetected and suddenly thought, nah, let's knock that on the head and went clean. Then after a miserable 2017, didn't revert back to the program. Then after further, miserable seasons in 2018, 2019 and 2020 still decided not to go back to his murky ways, but in 2021, at that point, decides to get back on the juice?!
Garbage.
of all the "questionable" performances, Cav's return i think is genuinely down to recovery from Epstein=Barr and Depression, an amazing leadout train and a weak field of competition. He is still poor in the mountains and always had very good finishing speed in sprints all the way back.
He is competing against the same people as he was in Tour of Turkey.
That gives you an idea of the level of competition he is facing. He has absolutely lucked out this Tour...even his attendance was dependent on Bennett's withdrawal.
Make the most of it. It will not happen again.
That gives you an idea of the level of competition he is facing. He has absolutely lucked out this Tour...even his attendance was dependent on Bennett's withdrawal.
Make the most of it. It will not happen again.
I think this is the most likely answer. His toughest competitors are gone from the Tour. It would have been much harder for him to win multiple stages this year if they had been there. I don't think his performance is really that questionable.
The way I imagine it: He was clean or was on a lighter program in the past, then that was not enough anymore, he was ill, and now since this year he's on harder or better stuff (or it gets applied better).
Matthews is doing his exact same thing of winning every single garbage consolation sprint, though
Yeah...but Colbrelli seems to be climbing pretty well for a fatass sprinter.
Reminds me of the early 90s
Reminds me of the early 90s
Aimar16
BANNED
Colbrelli is literally nowhere on the sprint stages. His best result in sprint was a 5th place in the third stage but even that result was only because Ewan fell and took Sagan with him.
I don't know what makes Colbrelli a sprinter. Even Cavandish's lackey Morkov has better results on the sprint stages.
It's pretty extradionary that Cavendish has not been in any trouble with the time limit despite probably not training specifically for the Tour and not riding more than 11 stages in a single race since the 2016 Tour.
Itll be all the drugs and the motor that he used with such success up to 2016 then suddenly and inexplicably abandoned for a few years.
Or it could be lazy bum Cav feeling charitable and offering every team a top sprinter for free for 2021 and still most of those morons said no.
I mean he is not doing anything different now to what he was doing last year, right?
True. He is wiping the floor with Colbrelli in the points competition.
It shouldn’t have been, maybe that he won 4 but not that he won stages. He finished on the podium 3 times and was getting stronger each race.
I don't know why you need to posit that he was ever clean. He could have been on a less efficient program, and then gone backwards mentally as the arms race went on and he got worse and worse compared to his rivals. Then he gets back on some top level fuel, at a team that's winning the arms race (at least for certain kinds of races/riders/efforts). That makes him potentially much faster, but also gives him the motivation needed to fully exploit that potential. But yes, it's even possible that not having access to race-winning fuel also made him cut down on the dope, because why bother. Being on a top-notch program is a hassle.
(Why bother? Because you can still get good results and a nice contract with fuel that's not as good. But a formerly top level rider who's struggling mentally might see things differently)
I'm not positing that he was ever clean. I'm rubbishing the notion that his success now (vs 2018-20) is due to doing anything different. I think he was ill. For all I know he may have been doping throughout....or never doped (unlikely) but I don't think he has undergone a sudden change via doping, which is what is suggested upthread
No, you were not positing that he was ever clean, you were mocking the argument of those who think doping can explain Cavendish's current and past performances by rhetorically asking whether people were suggesting that "he stopped doping in 2017". Hence my response that no such suggestion is necessary at all.
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