Cavendish "Giro is the hardest GT there is"

[spalco]

Incorrent. Since as you pointed out here or in some other of the Cav-hater threads here, "we" don't make the rules, the commisaires do. And clearly Cav's push did not warrant getting kicked out. You however support a known cheater over him.

 

[El Pistolero]

Incorrent. Since as you pointed out here or in some other of the Cav-hater threads here, "we" don't make the rules, the commisaires do. And clearly Cav's push did not warrant getting kicked out. You however support a known cheater over him.

I support Guardini? Read again, and this time read correctly.

Cavendish was angry at Guardini because he beat him. Guardini did nothing wrong in that sprint yet Cav complained and even thought about filing a protest because he couldn't believe someone just beat him. Guardini got kicked out the next day for hanging onto cars. Cav didn't know about that when he got angry, so that has nothing to do with it.

Are you saying the commisaires turn a blind eye to Cav? I agree with you there.

Ps: the rules are online for everyone to see. Cav broke them.

 

[will10]

Incorrent. Since as you pointed out here or in some other of the Cav-hater threads here, "we" don't make the rules, the commisaires do. And clearly Cav's push did not warrant getting kicked out. You however support a known cheater over him.

Guardini wasn't kicked out until the day after he beat Cav fair and square.

 

[spalco]

I support Guardini? Read again, and this time read correctly.

You cheered for him beating Cav. What would you call that?

Cavendish was angry at Guardini because he beat him. Guardini did nothing wrong in that sprint yet Cav complained and even thought about filing a protest because he couldn't believe someone just beat him. Guardini got kicked out the next day for hanging onto cars. Cav didn't know about that when he got angry, so that has nothing to do with it.

Ah, you're a mindreader now, eh? Link and quote where Cav said anything remotely like that please.

Are you saying the commisaires turn a blind eye to Cav? I agree with you there.

Ps: the rules are online for everyone to see. Cav broke them.

No, I'm saying Cav wasn't punished because he did nothing wrong.

 

[ultimobici]

I support Guardini? Read again, and this time read correctly.

Cavendish was angry at Guardini because he beat him. Guardini did nothing wrong in that sprint yet Cav complained and even thought about filing a protest because he couldn't believe someone just beat him. Guardini got kicked out the next day for hanging onto cars. Cav didn't know about that when he got angry, so that has nothing to do with it.

Are you saying the commisaires turn a blind eye to Cav? I agree with you there.

Ps: the rules are online for everyone to see. Cav broke them.

If he broke them so blatantly, why is it that he, Phinney & the guys in this photostream weren't booted off the race?

http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/smashred/7272855122/in/set-72157629903212290/

Because it was not a deliberate calculated act of cheating. Guardini on the other hand was caught hanging onto the car. How many times had that happened in the preceding days?

 

[El Pistolero]

Why is it that Turgot and Alex Rasmussen didn't get punished while Offredo was? Why is it that Marcel Sieberg wasn't thrown out of the Tour of Belgium despite doing the same as Guardini?

Seems to be a problem in cycling because the rules aren't followed consequently during a lot of races. Cav broke the rules blatantly, he made the time cut with a few seconds. He benefited from those pushes and we all know it. Last time I read the rules you had to push the tifosi away that are helping you get over a climb. If you don't do that you'll get a time penalty.

 

[El Pistolero]

You cheered for him beating Cav. What would you call that?

I cheered for him beating Cav before the news got out he hung onto a car. Who said he hung onto cars before that day? You don't know that yet you act like he did. I'm not defending Guardini because I don't mind that he was thrown out of the Giro. Rules are rules. I just wished everyone was treated the same.

And I don't have the link anymore, but he definitely said it in a post-race interview. At first I was even defending Cav until I read that. Down right pathetic.

 

[Hayabusa]

He deserves respect for finishing the Giro when riders similar to him did not, that is not to say that those that chose to leave are any less of a cyclist though.

On a personal level El Pistolero, posters like you have actually put me off posting on this forum because of your attitude, I get that you dislike Cavendish, but you don't need to go around spouting hate about him.

He's made a respectful comment about the Giro, no need to bring up past races. Don't like Cavendish? Don't get involved in a Cavendish thread with the sole intention of causing an argument. Simples.

 

[El Pistolero]

If somebody says something I don't agree with I'll respond. Simples. It's a forum after all, not a place where only one view is tolerated. If you can't handle that then maybe you don't belong here.

He basically said that the course of the Giro is harder than the Tour, but that the Tour is ridden harder. He said what every cycling fans knows. It's not a respectful comment towards a race, but a simple fact. Just compare the route of the two GTs, it's really very simple.

Here's the meaning of the word forum:

fo·rum (fôrm, fr-)
n. pl. fo·rums also fo·ra (fôr, fr)
1.
a. The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business.
b. A public meeting place for open discussion.
c. A medium for open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper, a radio or television program, or a website.
2. A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.
3. A court of law; a tribunal.

 

[hatcher]

He deserves respect for finishing the Giro when riders similar to him did not, that is not to say that those that chose to leave are any less of a cyclist though.

On a personal level El Pistolero, posters like you have actually put me off posting on this forum because of your attitude, I get that you dislike Cavendish, but you don't need to go around spouting hate about him.

He's made a respectful comment about the Giro, no need to bring up past races. Don't like Cavendish? Don't get involved in a Cavendish thread with the sole intention of causing an argument. Simples.

Much as I dislike using it, the ignore feature is a godsend.

 

[Hayabusa]

Indeed it is, I've made a grand total of 3 posts now and have already had to put it into action, I'm hoping that my number of posts and using the ignore function is not directly proportional with that ratio!

In relation to Cavendish, from the sounds of it I think he'll be back to complete another full Giro within the next couple of years and it would be good to see him complete the set of points jerseys.

 

[The Hitch]

Why is it that Turgot and Alex Rasmussen didn't get punished while Offredo was? Why is it that Marcel Sieberg wasn't thrown out of the Tour of Belgium despite doing the same as Guardini?

Seems to be a problem in cycling because the rules aren't followed consequently during a lot of races. Cav broke the rules blatantly, he made the time cut with a few seconds. He benefited from those pushes and we all know it. Last time I read the rules you had to push the tifosi away that are helping you get over a climb. If you don't do that you'll get a time penalty.

We can tell that utilmobici's point was really good, by the fact that you totaly ignored it either(rather than just totally misunderstand it and take it out of context as usual)

You are trying to make cheating - hanging onto a car, and failing to refuse help, as 1 and the same thing. the guys ****ing dying on a the bike. the 1 way to guarantee he won't make the time limit is to start using that energy to scream at fans, let alone take on the moral cunundrum of turning on someone who is kind to you.

But of course its cav who you hate no matter what, so if someone else helps him, its like cav is pulling the trigger himself.

Ps you are right, love of the giro wasn't the only reason he finished the race. he also wanted to honour the rainbow jersey.

And he sure did.

 

[The Hitch]

He basically said that the course of the Giro is harder than the Tour, but that the Tour is ridden harder. He said what every cycling fans knows. It's not a respectful comment towards a race, but a simple fact. Just compare the route of the two GTs, it's really very simple.

.

He went a bit further than that. he said the giro is worse. "i am on my hands and knees" "it has killed me" "i have nothing left" " the mountains are diabolical". The tour meanwhile "its the racing that makes it hard". that does not mean its difficulty (from the racing) is anywhere near as hard as the race that has him clearly the most exhausted he has been in his life.

this is not what every cyclist says and knows. it's the opposite of popular opinion - tour hardest race in the world.

But if you really hate someone, why bother looking at what they have said to attack them for it?

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Are you guys warming up for quintilis?

 

[Arnout]

The weather is just **** poor here, I'm also grumpy on this forum the last few days. 10 degrees and steady rain in June, it's just a joke There's no chance to warm up.

 

[El Pistolero]

We can tell that utilmobici's point was really good, by the fact that you totaly ignored it either(rather than just totally misunderstand it and take it out of context as usual)

You are trying to make cheating - hanging onto a car, and failing to refuse help, as 1 and the same thing. the guys ****ing dying on a the bike. the 1 way to guarantee he won't make the time limit is to start using that energy to scream at fans, let alone take on the moral cunundrum of turning on someone who is kind to you.

But of course its cav who you hate no matter what, so if someone else helps him, its like cav is pulling the trigger himself.

Ps you are right, love of the giro wasn't the only reason he finished the race. he also wanted to honour the rainbow jersey.

And he sure did.

He went a bit further than that. he said the giro is worse. "i am on my hands and knees" "it has killed me" "i have nothing left" " the mountains are diabolical". The tour meanwhile "its the racing that makes it hard". that does not mean its difficulty (from the racing) is anywhere near as hard as the race that has him clearly the most exhausted he has been in his life.

this is not what every cyclist says and knows. it's the opposite of popular opinion - tour hardest race in the world.

But if you really hate someone, why bother looking at what they have said to attack them for it?

Get over your self, Cav wasn't dying on the bike.

If Cav's not good enough to handle these "diabolical" mountains then he doesn't belong there in the first place. I rest my case. Besides, the stage where he got help from the tifosi was a hilly stage and didn't have any of those "diabolical" mountains. It's his job to get over them without help from bystanders, no matter how hard it is.

Tell me one cyclist who doesn't say the Giro route is hard and insane? Most of them say it actually. Last year the Giro organizers got a lot of complaints by professional cyclists that the route was way too hard. Yet you say they don't? If you say so, but please don't think your perception about the cycling world is a fact. What Cav said IS actually the popular view among cycling fans and professional cyclists.

And what Cavendish did was against the rules. Ergo it was cheating. You're only defending Cavendish because he sucked up to yours and the forum's favorite race. I never got this Giro love here and probably never will.

And now you claim I didn't read what he said? I just gave a perfectly fine summary of what he said, I didn't literally quote him. In a discussion please stick to the arguments only instead of attacking the poster.

In the end, it's really simple. Cavendish deserves praise for finishing the Giro, but he doesn't deserve any special praise that the other finishers don't get. If anything, the guys that ALWAYS try to finish a GT they start in deserve the real praise here. Not the likes of Cavendish.

 

[The Hitch]

Get over your self, Cav wasn't dying on the bike. Do you know who was "****ing" dying on the bike? Wouter Weylandt, not Cavendish.

I think you are using Wouter's tragic death to get some leverage on a cycling forum.

you know what "dying on the bike" means. Its a very common term.

If you are going to try to get to your opponents by bringing Wouter's death into it, then congratulations you have succeeded in crashing the discussion.

Some people are just willing to go that extra bit on an internet forum, i guess.

 

[El Pistolero]

He was good enough to finish the whole Giro, so yeah I'm going to call BS on your "dying on the bike" part. Ridiculous statement considering much worse things have happened in a bike race. You're not going to tell me he didn't have enough energy to make the tifosi stop pushing him. He was very glad he got their help. Why doesn't he thank them in his tweets alongside his team?

 

[Froome19]

He was good enough to finish the whole Giro, so yeah I'm going to call BS on your "dying on the bike" part. Ridiculous statement considering much worse things have happened in a bike race. You're not going to tell me he didn't have enough energy to make the tifosi stop pushing him. He was very glad he got their help. Why doesn't he thank them in his tweets alongside his team?

He was using "dying on the bike", more as a slang word to express his suffering.
It is common to use dying nowadays to refer to any sort of suffering and though he wasnt using it specifically here as total slang the expression of "dying" has taken on a different meaning.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

He was using "dying on the bike", more as a slang word to express his suffering.
It is common to use dying nowadays to refer to any sort of suffering and though he wasnt using it specifically here as total slang the expression of "dying" has taken on a different meaning.

You don't need to explain it. He knew exactly what it meant, but rather than engage with what people are saying he would rather make a frankly disgusting comparison.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

I have deleted the original posting but left the following discussion.

That is enough of it now, though. Let's drop it, please.

Susan

 

[The Hitch]

He was using "dying on the bike", more as a slang word to express his suffering.
It is common to use dying nowadays to refer to any sort of suffering and though he wasnt using it specifically here as total slang the expression of "dying" has taken on a different meaning.

He knows exactly what it means. And even if he didn't know what it means it doesn't take more than 2 braincells to figure out its a metaphor.

It is obvious what pistollero is doing here and its pretty fiendish and disgusting

 

[Morbius]

the guys that ALWAYS try to finish a GT they start in deserve the real praise here. Not the likes of Cavendish.

I think that's the point. in most cases Cav does try to finish a GT - look how few he has dropped out of. This year most people thought he would drop out after stage 13, because that was the obvious thing to do in preparation for the Tour / Olympic double. He deserves credit for deciding early that he would complete the Giro and challenge for the points jersey.
Should we go overboard about it? No. However he deserves respect for doing it, so chapeau.

 

[will10]

I think that's the point. Cav does always try to finish a GT - look how few he has dropped out of. This year most people thought he would drop out after stage 13, because that was the obvious thing to do in preparation for the Tour / Olympic double. He deserves credit for deciding early that he would complete the Giro and challenge for the points jersey.
Should we go overboard about it? No. However he deserves respect for doing it, so chapeau.

GTs started: 11
GTs finished: 6

And you think that's a good record?

 

[El Pistolero]

I think that's the point. in most cases Cav does try to finish a GT - look how few he has dropped out of. This year most people thought he would drop out after stage 13, because that was the obvious thing to do in preparation for the Tour / Olympic double. He deserves credit for deciding early that he would complete the Giro and challenge for the points jersey.
Should we go overboard about it? No. However he deserves respect for doing it, so chapeau.

Yes, he deserves respect for it. Alongside the 156 other guys who finished the race. That's kinda my point.