Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[Walkman]

Re:

It's confirmation bias. Do nothing but reverse Nibali and Froome's position today and it would by many be interpreted as confirming that Froome has no racing instinct and can't control his bike, whereas Nibali is the wily, sharp racer who smelled blood and opportunistically gained time like he always does.

This is so true.

It would have been; "real smart of Nibali to let AC use up his team while Nibs were resting his men before the TTT and the mountains".

And endless Froome bashing.

 

[HelloDolly]

Most people bashing Froome on here are doing so out of fear. Fear that he will win and beat their man so they use any and all ammunition however biased and unworthy

 

[JRanton]

Re: Re:

Froome got perhaps a bit lucky today, but man tactically Sky really are clueless.

I don't think it was luck but great work from Yogi and G to keep Froome well positioned which is hardly tacticly clueless either

Riding near the front boils down to strength and a bit of luck. Everybody knows what to do...

But failing to take advantage of the split early with resources screams lack of tactical sense.

Same with BMC.

I guess these guys needs to be told by mom what to do.

You're normally a sensible poster so I won't be rude but I think you're missing a couple of points.

1) Sky were outnumbered by other teams including most importantly Tinkoff who had four strong riders with Contador. Froome had just two with him and judging by Stannard's performance in the last 15km he wasn't on his best day.

2) Crosswinds were forecast for the last 20km until very late in the stage before the weather cleared up just before their arrival. Can you imagine if Froome had used up Stannard and Thomas before they reached that last 20km only for say, a fresh Sagan and Contador to drop Froome in the crosswinds. We would never have heard the end of it on here.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re: Re:

Froome got perhaps a bit lucky today, but man tactically Sky really are clueless.

I don't think it was luck but great work from Yogi and G to keep Froome well positioned which is hardly tacticly clueless either

Riding near the front boils down to strength and a bit of luck. Everybody knows what to do...

But failing to take advantage of the split early with resources screams lack of tactical sense.

Same with BMC.

I guess these guys needs to be told by mom what to do.

Stannard had virtually nothing left after taking just a couple of turns with around 20k's to go, it was sensible to keep G fresh just in case as Saxo had 5 guys there. If Yogi was feeling great im pretty sure he'd have been at the front but it was clear he was not. He spent the last 15km clinging on to the group.

 

[Taxus4a]

When I saw in street view the ITT i saw wide avenues, so i though it was a good ITT for Froome... but there were a lot of corners to take risk, so his time, better than people as Contador, is good.

Today he put again 4 second to some contenders and 1.28 to others, so, he show he is strong
We will see on the cobbles, but today was a good reference.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

It's confirmation bias. Do nothing but reverse Nibali and Froome's position today and it would by many be interpreted as confirming that Froome has no racing instinct and can't control his bike, whereas Nibali is the wily, sharp racer who smelled blood and opportunistically gained time like he always does.

Personally I have never praised anyone for following wheels. Not Froome, not Nibali, not Gerrans, not Rui Costa, not Contador, no one. Following wheels is the default action. On PCM its what happens when you don't press any buttons.

There is no risk being taken or sacrifice being made. You do the thing everyone learnt to do when they first got on a bike. Pff, why does that deserve praise?

Froome did well to stay near the front and stay in the front group, but it was all the labour of others that got Sky their time today and they did nothing to earn it themselves.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

It's confirmation bias. Do nothing but reverse Nibali and Froome's position today and it would by many be interpreted as confirming that Froome has no racing instinct and can't control his bike, whereas Nibali is the wily, sharp racer who smelled blood and opportunistically gained time like he always does.

Personally I have never praised anyone for following wheels. Not Froome, not Nibali, not Gerrans, not Rui Costa, not Contador, no one. Following wheels is the default action. On PCM its what happens when you don't press any buttons.

There is no risk being taken or sacrifice being made. You do the thing everyone learnt to do when they first got on a bike. Pff, why does that deserve praise?

Froome did well to stay near the front and stay in the front group, but it was all the labour of others that got Sky their time today and they did nothing to earn it themselves.

The fact is, in this sport there are always passengers. What some people think is smart others think is mediocre. The rider that does the least work often wins. Not sure how much work Sky did but I saw Thomas and others on the front sometimes. Nibali lost time because he was caught up behind a fall. I guess he did not deserve that either but that is bike racing. Etixx and BMC seemed to be doing a lot of work but I did not see the entire stage.

 

[Mongolian Mayhem]

Doesn't matter what Sky did today. The cobbles will tell the tale of TDF 2015. Just as much as the hills and just as much as riding smartly as possible. What if Froomella has a crap day on stones? Nib will smell blood and gain some time back and then Sky will suck again (or continue to suck.). The dynamics of this TDF are vast and it's too early to see the end. I believe that after stage 10, things might be more clear. I reckon we are in for a cracker of a TDF this year.

 

[damian13ster]

Brilliant stage from Sky.
Kept their leader in the front, half of the team just followed wheels saving themselves for future stages, and ednded up gaining time on all GC contenders. Perfectly played. Gutted for Nibali but that's cycling

 

[greenedge]

it's a good scenario for Froome, but it'd have been nice to see him pull like Contador did, especially when there were such big benefits a possibility. Kwiatowski is one of the biggest names of the sport and his dedication on the front was great to see, there is no reason as to why Froome could not have done the same (to a lesser extent of course).

 

[Jspear]

Re:

it's a good scenario for Froome, but it'd have been nice to see him pull like Contador did, especially when there were such big benefits a possibility. Kwiatowski is one of the biggest riders of the sport and his dedication on the front was great to see, there is no reason as to why Froome could not have done the same (to a lesser extent of course).

IMO it's a mentality issue. Froome doesn't have the same "race hard in all terrains mentality." He was smart to follow, but that was it. Roche said it best yesterday. AC looks at his rivals and tries to find a weakness and then attacks. Froome just rides his own race at his own tempo. Doesn't make for the most entertaining racing, but works for him more often than not.

Now, it can't be said that Froome is a "poor" racer in the mountains. If he makes it to the mountains we can be assured that he will "put on a show." He might be looking at his stem and all, but at least he attacks. He will definitely make the mountain stages very interesting.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Sky has question marks. Only G stayed with Froome. Stannard failed in the last 15 k. No other teammate around. This is enough to survive but not take advantage like TS did.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

Sky has question marks. Only G stayed with Froome. Stannard failed in the last 15 k. No other teammate around. This is enough to survive but not take advantage like TS did.

But much better to be in that position than a team like Movistar or Astana where most of their helpers were scattered in groups all over the road when it broke up. Sky riders that were just caught behind had no reason to get back in, their job was done once Froome made the selection.

Interesting you use the word survive, that is exactly what Sky and Froome have been saying they need to do in this opening week. We will see a much different Sky in the mountains where Froome will have 6 very good helpers, of course providing Froome makes it there.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re:

Sky has question marks. Only G stayed with Froome. Stannard failed in the last 15 k. No other teammate around. This is enough to survive but not take advantage like TS did.

SKY have brought essentially a climbing team to the Tour as opposed to TCS who have more mature roulers.As in the Giro TCS will be best in 1st week. Movistar brought what looks like a team for the TTT
For me the team to really look weak yesterday was Astana with Boom & Westra missing and in the 4th group

 

[rhubroma]

The cobbles are where Froome and Sky will be most vulnerable. Contador no doubt had in mind how good Nibali was on them last year and certainly wanted to capitalize the most of the favorable situation before tomorrow.

Froome may well rue the day that he didn't have his teammates contribute more yesterday, as not being the best bike handler he could fair far worse than imagined on tomorrow's stage. This is why I can't understand Sky's tactic yesterday. Overconfidence? Or is it simply underestimation?

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

The cobbles are where Froome and Sky will be most vulnerable. Contador no doubt had in mind how good Nibali was on them last year and certainly wanted to capitalize the most of the favorable situation before tomorrow.

Froome may well rue the day that he didn't have his teammates contribute more yesterday, as not being the best bike handler he could fair far worse than imagined on tomorrow's stage. This is why I can't understand Sky's tactic yesterday. Overconfidence? Or is it simply underestimation?

I'd be surprised if Froome loses much time, if any, on the cobbles (provided they're are dry, completely different story if wet). When it's dry, it's still important to be a good bike handler ofc, but nowhere near to the same extent, and it's all about raw power, and so I expect him to do very well, especially given that I would argue that he's got the best team for the cobbles (G + Yogi + Rowe - Bennati + Sagan - Boom + Westra - uhm, Valverde?)

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

The cobbles are where Froome and Sky will be most vulnerable. Contador no doubt had in mind how good Nibali was on them last year and certainly wanted to capitalize the most of the favorable situation before tomorrow.

Froome may well rue the day that he didn't have his teammates contribute more yesterday, as not being the best bike handler he could fair far worse than imagined on tomorrow's stage. This is why I can't understand Sky's tactic yesterday. Overconfidence? Or is it simply underestimation?

I'd be surprised if Froome loses much time, if any, on the cobbles (provided they're are dry, completely different story if wet). When it's dry, it's still important to be a good bike handler ofc, but nowhere near to the same extent, and it's all about raw power, and so I expect him to do very well, especially given that I would argue that he's got the best team for the cobbles (G + Yogi + Rowe - Bennati + Sagan - Boom + Westra - uhm, Valverde?)

But you can't count on that with the cobbles, where a punture, or a mechanical, or a crash is an every present insidiousness, for which I have all the more reason to question Sky's comportment in yesterday's situation. Had they and BMC worked throughout, they'd of put at least another minute into Nibali. Given the dangers for any GC rider on a cobbled course (not to mention if it rains!), then why wouldn't you race like the damned when you've got one of your rivals agaist the ropes. Makes no sense to me. And this goes for BMC as well. Why even think about a Yellow Jersey, if the guy who is wearing it isn't your GC man, when that GC man stands to benefit even more if his teamates ride like the damned? No, none of it makes any sense.

 

[Cimber]

Re: Re:

The cobbles are where Froome and Sky will be most vulnerable. Contador no doubt had in mind how good Nibali was on them last year and certainly wanted to capitalize the most of the favorable situation before tomorrow.

Froome may well rue the day that he didn't have his teammates contribute more yesterday, as not being the best bike handler he could fair far worse than imagined on tomorrow's stage. This is why I can't understand Sky's tactic yesterday. Overconfidence? Or is it simply underestimation?

I'd be surprised if Froome loses much time, if any, on the cobbles (provided they're are dry, completely different story if wet). When it's dry, it's still important to be a good bike handler ofc, but nowhere near to the same extent, and it's all about raw power, and so I expect him to do very well, especially given that I would argue that he's got the best team for the cobbles (G + Yogi + Rowe - Bennati + Sagan - Boom + Westra - uhm, Valverde?)

Checking different weaether sites there is a small chance of a little rain in the area tommorow. NJust a tiny bit, and just maybe, but could be enough.

To bad they dont ride it wednesday where they forecast rain most of the day.

EDIT: I like this forecast though

http://www.meteofrance.com/previsions-meteo-france/cambrai/59400

Most other forecast predicts that it wont rain till in the evening though. But lets see (0:

 

[spalco]

It's amusing that the line between perfection and embarassing failure is so thin apparently in cycling strategy judging by the comments about Sky's performance yesterday.

 

[rhubroma]

Re:

It's amusing that the line between perfection and embarassing failure is so thin apparently in cycling strategy judging by the comments about Sky's performance yesterday.

How could time gained be regarded as "embarassing failure." Though Sky did ride like chumps.

 

[cellardoor]

Personally I'm not hoping for rain....I want to see all the main GC contenders get through this stage without crashing. I think there will still be an opportunity for exciting racing.

 

[Cimber]

Re:

Personally I'm not hoping for rain....I want to see all the main GC contenders get through this stage without crashing. I think there will still be an opportunity for exciting racing.

Its not about crashes - it about gaps. If it would raind (which is most likely will not) Nibali would do an epic comeback.

 

[harryh]

Re:

The cobbles are where Froome and Sky will be most vulnerable. Contador no doubt had in mind how good Nibali was on them last year and certainly wanted to capitalize the most of the favorable situation before tomorrow.

Froome may well rue the day that he didn't have his teammates contribute more yesterday, as not being the best bike handler he could fair far worse than imagined on tomorrow's stage. This is why I can't understand Sky's tactic yesterday. Overconfidence? Or is it simply underestimation?

Froome had only Thomas and Stannard, and only Thomas with good legs. With monster pulls by Thomas they would have gained another 1.5 min? I dont' think so. By burning Thomas up they would have gained maybe 10 seconds more but then Sky would be weaker on the cobbles, they need fresh Thomas there.

 

[cellardoor]

Re: Re:

Personally I'm not hoping for rain....I want to see all the main GC contenders get through this stage without crashing. I think there will still be an opportunity for exciting racing.

Its not about crashes - it about gaps. If it would raind (which is most likely will not) Nibali would do an epic comeback.

Yes but crashes are an almost certain side-effect of having rain and I still think gaps can be made, even if they won't be as big. Anyway, Nibali will have his chance at an epic comeback in the mountains

 

[cellardoor]

Re: Re:

The cobbles are where Froome and Sky will be most vulnerable. Contador no doubt had in mind how good Nibali was on them last year and certainly wanted to capitalize the most of the favorable situation before tomorrow.

Froome may well rue the day that he didn't have his teammates contribute more yesterday, as not being the best bike handler he could fair far worse than imagined on tomorrow's stage. This is why I can't understand Sky's tactic yesterday. Overconfidence? Or is it simply underestimation?

Froome had only Thomas and Stannard, and only Thomas with good legs. With monster pulls by Thomas they would have gained another 1.5 min? I dont' think so. By burning Thomas up they would have gained maybe 10 seconds more but then Sky would be weaker on the cobbles, they need fresh Thomas there.

Yes, although on paper Stannard should be good for the cobbles, the weakness he showed yesterday suggests he's not in great form yet.

If Sagan ends up struggling on the cobbles after yesterday's effort then we can say it probably was a wise decision by Sky to save G. Let's see.