Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

You should watch the Video Its not all bad . It puts Froomes form into perspective that's all.
Unless Froome gets a big gap heading into the mountains over " Quintana or Bertie " then IMO going on his previous GT's he will not win. He would not have won this tour but for the "wind split" or if movie knew what the hell they were doing tactically...they were rubbish

I never said Bertie was the best climber. But a fully fit Bertie is stronger over a GT than a fully fit Froome IMO.

Bertie has beaten and matched Froome in their last 3 TT's . So that is in no way a given time gain, although Quintana would have to improve.

Quintana only got stronger as the tour went on.

You make some interesting points I just don't agree with them.

What I think we both agree on, is that this years tour was exciting and Froome was a worthy winner and lets hope next years can be better whoever comes out on top.

I agree with most of what you say Ray, however Froome by his own admission has hardly spent any time on a TT bike this season as 'there was no point' (His words).

If they put in a nice flattish 50km iTT in next years tour I'd expect Froome to be back to his 2013 iTT performance where he wasn't far off beating Tony Martin, that's top form whichever way you cut it. Of course Contador's performance should be much stronger than that Tour but I think he will still lose time to Froome.

Quintana would be in damage limitation mode and could lose a lot of time unless he improves. He lost over 3 minutes in just 33km, whilst I expect he could be a little closer now with experience it wont be enough.

I agree, Froome in full TT would take some beating by "anyone" If Bertie can get back his 2014 form he could do a damage limitation Job. Quintana though could well lose the tour right there maybe Nibs as well.
I'm not a big fan of TT's, I remember Armstrong going past Ulrich " tour over " and there was still nearly the full 3 weeks left. But it's part of the history, LeMond v Fignon. Maybe they should have a last day TT again. it would make it more exciting.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Contador will never win the tour[/quote]

It's a big call to say that Contador could not win the Tour. Without the Giro in his legs I think he would have a chance. I knew he would win the Giro but even that was not an easy win for him although he seemed to be saying after the race that he had it under control even on the final few stages. No Quintana or Froome in the Giro which is the main reason I thought he would win it. It's always hard to rate form between riders.

Were Froome and Quintana at their best from in the Tour ? Nibali wasn't although some people seem to think that Nibali will never beat Contador and Froome in a GT. If Froome and Quintana are in the same form in next year's Tour I would give Contador a chance. Extra TT kms will only make it more difficult for Quintana. I think this year's route was ideal for him but he lost too much time too early in the race. I think Contador and Froome will fight out next year's Tour. I think Nibali's Tour win in 2014 only showed how big a gap there is between the top four GC riders and the rest. Without Froome and Contador, and Quintana having problems it was Nibali's to lose and he won it without going too deep at least to the naked eye. Nibali lost too much time early in the race this year as opposed to his perfect first week in 2014 but he did not seem to have the same form either as last year. Contador showed in the Giro that the age factor has not affected him too much and he is not too old for a GC rider but of course that is an individual factor. Some seem to lose the ability to reach their best level, a few years before others. Hesjedal, Basso and Rodriguez are past that stage now where winning a GT is possible, Contador is yet to reach it and of course he is younger. Riders like Uran, Froome and Nibai should be in their peak years. It will be interesting to see how far Quintana can go and how many GTs he can win but Froome and Contador and even maybe Nibali at his best will make it hard for him in 2016.

 

[SeriousSam]

Contador wasn't up to his usual standard even at the Giro. The only thing he really excelled at is the long flat time trial which wouldn't have helped him at the Tour. And even that performance is subject to some question marks, stemming from who he defeated to come second.

Contador was clearly in rather unimpressive form all year. He did well to win the Giro against the sort of competition usually present at the Giro. If he wants to win the Tour, he needs to do much better.

 

[rick james]

If Bertie brought his giro form to the tour the dawg still would have destroyed him

 

[ray j willings]

Re:

Contador wasn't up to his usual standard even at the Giro. The only thing he really excelled at is the long flat time trial which wouldn't have helped him at the Tour. And even that performance is subject to some question marks, stemming from who he defeated to come second.

Contador was clearly in rather unimpressive form all year. He did well to win the Giro against the sort of competition usually present at the Giro. If he wants to win the Tour, he needs to do much better.

I agree, I think 2014 Bertie looked sensational. This year he has not looked as sharp. I do think taking on Astana by himself in the Giro made the tour almost impossible, [Nibs idea ] I never understood why he raced Quintana just before the tour. Surely rest/recover would have been better.

 

[MatParker117]

Re:

Contador wasn't up to his usual standard even at the Giro. The only thing he really excelled at is the long flat time trial which wouldn't have helped him at the Tour. And even that performance is subject to some question marks, stemming from who he defeated to come second.

Contador was clearly in rather unimpressive form all year. He did well to win the Giro against the sort of competition usually present at the Giro. If he wants to win the Tour, he needs to do much better.

That TT won him the race had Froome gone through with his threat to skip the Tour i doubt Contador would f won.

 

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

no way he'll do the vuelta, he looked way too cooked in that tour

That's what I was thinking. Maybe give some opportunities to some lesser riders to ride for themselves, like Henao, Nieve, Roche, Boswell, maybe Poels and Thomas too. At the end of the second week I thought it was a good idea, but if he's tired it's a shame if the whole team is sacrificed for him, when he can't finish it off (we'll have to see who else goes though).

Much as I'd like to see Sky's impressive stable get some limelight time, I'd also be interested to see what Froome can do over the course of two GTs.

We saw it, in 2012.

 

[SeriousSam]

Very non-optimal circumstances that year. He can surely do better than that.

 

[SeriousSam]

Just checked the odds. Froome and Quintana favourites for the Vuelta. Interesting when their appearance has yet to be confirmed. Valverde 3rd.

For the Tour 2016, Froome and Quintana are the clear favourites as well. The other two riders of the group formerly known as Big 4 round out the top 4. 5th? Little Richie Porte.

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

Just checked the odds. Froome and Quintana favourites for the Vuelta. Interesting when their appearance has yet to be confirmed. Valverde 3rd.

For the Tour 2016, Froome and Quintana are the clear favourites as well. The other two riders of the group formerly known as Big 4 round out the top 4. 5th? Little Richie Porte.

I still remember that a certain Bradley Wiggins was given 30-1 in June 2014 to win the Tour despite the fact he had explicitly announced that he would not do the tour, and the fact he had put on weight to perform better in TT's and the fact it was Bradley Wiggins. Basically my point is in my mind the markets are useless unless used to get on.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

Just checked the odds. Froome and Quintana favourites for the Vuelta. Interesting when their appearance has yet to be confirmed. Valverde 3rd.

For the Tour 2016, Froome and Quintana are the clear favourites as well. The other two riders of the group formerly known as Big 4 round out the top 4. 5th? Little Richie Porte.

I guess some will never give up the hope and belief that LRP is a "contender".

 

[Jspear]

Re:

Just checked the odds. Froome and Quintana favourites for the Vuelta. Interesting when their appearance has yet to be confirmed. Valverde 3rd.

For the Tour 2016, Froome and Quintana are the clear favourites as well. The other two riders of the group formerly known as Big 4 round out the top 4. 5th? Little Richie Porte.

Just goes to show how much worth the odds have.

I think Valverde would beat Quintana (and possible even Froome) if they come to the Vuelta. We know he does well in his 2nd gt. Froome, I'm not convinced could (especially after seeing his final week in the Tour), and Quintana isn't as explosive as Valverde.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

For all the talk about Froome's bike handling it's Contador that crashes on descents more often. It's hilarious on the Contador thread where fans are celebrating a weather forecast for rain. if your idol is depending on wet weather to win a GT then things are getting desperate.

Movingtarget you do realize people were hoping for rain because Contador was suffering the in the heat and was struggling with allergies? Probably not.

Good descenders crash more often on descents. It's because they take more risks. Nibali crashed more often on descents than Andy schleck. I guess that shows Andy Schleck was a better bike handler/descender

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

For all the talk about Froome's bike handling it's Contador that crashes on descents more often. It's hilarious on the Contador thread where fans are celebrating a weather forecast for rain. if your idol is depending on wet weather to win a GT then things are getting desperate.

Movingtarget you do realize people were hoping for rain because Contador was suffering the in the heat and was struggling with allergies? Probably not.

Good descenders crash more often on descents. It's because they take more risks. Nibali crashed more often on descents than Andy schleck. I guess that shows Andy Schleck was a better bike handler/descender

Yes I realize that but it's also because some people don't think that Froome can't handle wet roads and is a poor bike handler. Compared to Andy, Froome is a genius. As for taking risks, as a GC rider if you are taking too many risks I think it's not too smart but sometimes it's a fine line. I also suffer from allergies and I don't notice much difference in the rain but then I am not a bike for 5 hours riding through the countryside ! Allergies should affect Contador more in Spring not Summer, when there is more pollen in the air. Sounds a bit strange unless he has ongoing sinus problems which are quite common.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Contador wasn't up to his usual standard even at the Giro. The only thing he really excelled at is the long flat time trial which wouldn't have helped him at the Tour. And even that performance is subject to some question marks, stemming from who he defeated to come second.

Contador was clearly in rather unimpressive form all year. He did well to win the Giro against the sort of competition usually present at the Giro. If he wants to win the Tour, he needs to do much better.

I would not underestimate how hard the Giro was. Let's face it it was Contador against Astana. Do you think that Froome would have gone much better in the Giro than Contador ? I don't. But at least his team would have been much better than Contador's which was terrible. I think that constant driving type of racing is just what Froome hates. He prefers his team to ride tempo so he has enough left in reserve to either attack or to defend attacks. Astana did not allow that in the Giro and on some stages it caught out Aru as well. If Movistar rode the Tour the way Astana rode the Giro it would have been a completely different race.

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

For all the talk about Froome's bike handling it's Contador that crashes on descents more often. It's hilarious on the Contador thread where fans are celebrating a weather forecast for rain. if your idol is depending on wet weather to win a GT then things are getting desperate.

Movingtarget you do realize people were hoping for rain because Contador was suffering the in the heat and was struggling with allergies? Probably not.

Good descenders crash more often on descents. It's because they take more risks. Nibali crashed more often on descents than Andy schleck. I guess that shows Andy Schleck was a better bike handler/descender

Yes I realize that but it's also because some people don't think that Froome can't handle wet roads and is a poor bike handler. Compared to Andy, Froome is a genius. As for taking risks, as a GC rider if you are taking too many risks I think it's not too smart but sometimes it's a fine line. I also suffer from allergies and I don't notice much difference in the rain but then I am not a bike for 5 hours riding through the countryside ! Allergies should affect Contador more in Spring not Summer, when there is more pollen in the air. Sounds a bit strange unless he has ongoing sinus problems which are quite common.

Froome obviously has issues as well ,,,

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

For all the talk about Froome's bike handling it's Contador that crashes on descents more often. It's hilarious on the Contador thread where fans are celebrating a weather forecast for rain. if your idol is depending on wet weather to win a GT then things are getting desperate.

Movingtarget you do realize people were hoping for rain because Contador was suffering the in the heat and was struggling with allergies? Probably not.

Good descenders crash more often on descents. It's because they take more risks. Nibali crashed more often on descents than Andy schleck. I guess that shows Andy Schleck was a better bike handler/descender

Yes I realize that but it's also because some people don't think that Froome can't handle wet roads and is a poor bike handler. Compared to Andy, Froome is a genius. As for taking risks, as a GC rider if you are taking too many risks I think it's not too smart but sometimes it's a fine line. I also suffer from allergies and I don't notice much difference in the rain but then I am not a bike for 5 hours riding through the countryside ! Allergies should affect Contador more in Spring not Summer, when there is more pollen in the air. Sounds a bit strange unless he has ongoing sinus problems which are quite common.

I'm having my worst allergy (hay fever) these days... Season has been weird this year.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

For all the talk about Froome's bike handling it's Contador that crashes on descents more often. It's hilarious on the Contador thread where fans are celebrating a weather forecast for rain. if your idol is depending on wet weather to win a GT then things are getting desperate.

Movingtarget you do realize people were hoping for rain because Contador was suffering the in the heat and was struggling with allergies? Probably not.

Good descenders crash more often on descents. It's because they take more risks. Nibali crashed more often on descents than Andy schleck. I guess that shows Andy Schleck was a better bike handler/descender

Yes I realize that but it's also because some people don't think that Froome can't handle wet roads and is a poor bike handler. Compared to Andy, Froome is a genius. As for taking risks, as a GC rider if you are taking too many risks I think it's not too smart but sometimes it's a fine line. I also suffer from allergies and I don't notice much difference in the rain but then I am not a bike for 5 hours riding through the countryside ! Allergies should affect Contador more in Spring not Summer, when there is more pollen in the air. Sounds a bit strange unless he has ongoing sinus problems which are quite common.

I'm having my worst allergy (hay fever) these days... Season has been weird this year.

I had it during late june (very strong one), its different for everyone I guess

 

[Netserk]

Usually it's during June, but this year it has been worse and it has lasted way longer than usual. Funnily enough I don't really suffer during spring.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re: Re:

I agree, Froome in full TT would take some beating by "anyone" If Bertie can get back his 2014 form he could do a damage limitation Job. Quintana though could well lose the tour right there maybe Nibs as well.
I'm not a big fan of TT's, I remember Armstrong going past Ulrich " tour over " and there was still nearly the full 3 weeks left. But it's part of the history, LeMond v Fignon. Maybe they should have a last day TT again. it would make it more exciting.

I do like a long iTT, for me the Tour should be about balance and the best all-round rider not just climber. Whereas the Giro you have much tougher climbs and the risk of very poor weather instead with the Vuelta going uphill finish crazy.

A long TT is fine as long as they vary the route and have at least 5 tough days in the mountains, they should include cobbles every 2/3 years and tricky finishes like Huy and Bretagne plus stages that a prone to crosswind action as well as some tricky descents. Froome in this years tour proved much more of an all rounder than Quintana and that is why he won.

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

I agree, Froome in full TT would take some beating by "anyone" If Bertie can get back his 2014 form he could do a damage limitation Job. Quintana though could well lose the tour right there maybe Nibs as well.
I'm not a big fan of TT's, I remember Armstrong going past Ulrich " tour over " and there was still nearly the full 3 weeks left. But it's part of the history, LeMond v Fignon. Maybe they should have a last day TT again. it would make it more exciting.

I do like a long iTT, for me the Tour should be about balance and the best all-round rider not just climber. Whereas the Giro you have much tougher climbs and the risk of very poor weather instead with the Vuelta going uphill finish crazy.

A long TT is fine as long as they vary the route and have at least 5 tough days in the mountains, they should include cobbles every 2/3 years and tricky finishes like Huy and Bretagne plus stages that a prone to crosswind action as well as some tricky descents. Froome in this years tour proved much more of an all rounder than Quintana and that is why he won.

Quintana at the minute is a one trick pony "its a good one though". Sky stayed on their toe's and got the wind split, remember when Armstrong got the gap on Bertie. Due diligence, experience it pays off.
two things I would like to see that IMO would make the tour more exciting .

1, A mountain TT, riders go 2 at time in reverse order [2/3 mins apart] ...that would keep everyone on their toes and make for some real excitement.

2, bring back a TT on the last day .

 

[Bushman]

Re: Re:

For all the talk about Froome's bike handling it's Contador that crashes on descents more often. It's hilarious on the Contador thread where fans are celebrating a weather forecast for rain. if your idol is depending on wet weather to win a GT then things are getting desperate.

Movingtarget you do realize people were hoping for rain because Contador was suffering the in the heat and was struggling with allergies? Probably not.

Good descenders crash more often on descents. It's because they take more risks. Nibali crashed more often on descents than Andy schleck. I guess that shows Andy Schleck was a better bike handler/descender

This is BS. How often hvsd you seen Sagan crash on a descent? Or Kwiatkowski or Cancellara? Really good descenders can take risks on the descents but avoid crashing even when taking a bad line.

 

[ray j willings]

Nibs going down pretty fast ,,,,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRmklNVFnZ0

 

[dacooley]

froome also is a pretty decent descender, not a great one but far from the worst in the peloton. why did the forum underrate him for a long while in this regard heaven only knows.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

For all the talk about Froome's bike handling it's Contador that crashes on descents more often. It's hilarious on the Contador thread where fans are celebrating a weather forecast for rain. if your idol is depending on wet weather to win a GT then things are getting desperate.

Movingtarget you do realize people were hoping for rain because Contador was suffering the in the heat and was struggling with allergies? Probably not.

Good descenders crash more often on descents. It's because they take more risks. Nibali crashed more often on descents than Andy schleck. I guess that shows Andy Schleck was a better bike handler/descender

This is BS. How often hvsd you seen Sagan crash on a descent? Or Kwiatkowski or Cancellara? Really good descenders can take risks on the descents but avoid crashing even when taking a bad line.

There we have it, the first person arguing Andy Schleck is a better descender than Vincenzo Nibali. Chapeau
Of course a good descender can take risks and avoid crashing 9 times out of 10, however sometimes it goes wrong and the rider crashes. Whereas a rider that doesn't take any risks will crash 0 times out of 10.

(And of course Contador only crashed once because of his own doing, and not 3 times as movingtarget suggested)

Edit: and I never said Contador is a "really good descender" he's just good and better than Froome because he isn't afraid to take risks. But go on, keep twisting my words.