Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[VayaVayaVaya]

Re: Re:

IMO he is the strongest on single mountain stages. He has an insane acceleration and then he just keeps a high temp for the next 20-30 minutes. But as we saw this year he isn't thermonuclear on multi mountain stages or after many stages of climbing. This year Quintana gained more time on Froome in the mountains than Froome did on him.

Agree with this. He seems very strong on single mountain stages, that is stages which end with a Cat 1 or Cat HC mtf and include no other Cat 2 or up mountains earlier in the stage. Admittedly it's a very small sample size, but given these conditions, going back three years to TdF 2012 onwards his record is brilliant.

1st, 2012 Tour, Stage 7
1st, 2013 Dauphine, Stage 5
1st, 2013 Tour, Stage 15
5th, 2014 Vuelta, Stage 11
1st, 2015 Andalucia Ruta Ciclista Del Sol, Stage 4
1st, 2015 Tour, Stage 10

Froome is not a pure climber, is a complete rider.
He is very good in long stages with lot of long climbs.

Quintana is a supertalented climber, he is better climber, so he is normal he climb better in demanding climbing stages.

You can say that of others riders, not of Froome.

A complete rider is going to be better in the first mountain stage than a pure climber, becouse you pay all the flat of the forst weak.

Later in the race, with more climbing stages in the legs, a pure climber could be better. But if you compare with the rest, not with Quintana, Froome has been always the best in the mountains.

So you just ignore 2014? Vuelta , Dauphine You should take a look at this, you must have missed all this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YScKkvHIxwE


and what about this year when Bertie dropped Froome from 10km out. That was the first climb of the race? You just make it up as you go along ,,,,get some facts

Great video. The stars were aligned for all of 2014...except for during the Tour. I love seeing peak Contador and peak Froome battle. I also love how neither is afraid to get out there in lesser form, surely knowing they're going to get crushed, and still give it there all. Neither throws in the towel, quits, ducks the other. Two true champions, IMO. Nibali, too. I also like how Froome, in that video, holds out a hand and apologizes when he rides too closely to another rider even though he is clearly suffering hard. And how he just kept coming and coming in the Vuelta.

 

[ray j willings]

Re:

Why not? You pretty much ignore 2013.

You seriously believe that in 2013 Contador was on top form. He was getting beat by Porte

Was Froome off form in the dauphine [2014] when he attacked Bertie but could not drop him? I don't think so
Froomes form/performance in the Vuelta matches what he did in this years tour only in the Vuelta Froome does not get the huge time he gained in the wind and Bertie beat him in the TT. Once on the backfoot Froome is doomed
Bertie gave him the beating not that he deserved but that he needed

 

[rick james]

Re: Re:

Why not? You pretty much ignore 2013.

You seriously believe that in 2013 Contador was on top form. He was getting beat by Porte

Was Froome off form in the dauphine [2014] when he attacked Bertie but could not drop him? I don't think so
Froomes form/performance in the Vuelta matches what he did in this years tour only in the Vuelta Froome does not get the huge time he gained in the wind and Bertie beat him in the TT. Once on the backfoot Froome is doomed
Bertie gave him the beating not that he deserved but that he needed

What the hell are you talking about? Froome vuelta 2014 form was nowhere near this years tour form, he spent the first 2 weeks of the vuelta doing his own thing up the climbs, he stared the vuelta well below his normal form

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

IMO he is the strongest on single mountain stages. He has an insane acceleration and then he just keeps a high temp for the next 20-30 minutes. But as we saw this year he isn't thermonuclear on multi mountain stages or after many stages of climbing. This year Quintana gained more time on Froome in the mountains than Froome did on him.

Agree with this. He seems very strong on single mountain stages, that is stages which end with a Cat 1 or Cat HC mtf and include no other Cat 2 or up mountains earlier in the stage. Admittedly it's a very small sample size, but given these conditions, going back three years to TdF 2012 onwards his record is brilliant.

1st, 2012 Tour, Stage 7
1st, 2013 Dauphine, Stage 5
1st, 2013 Tour, Stage 15
5th, 2014 Vuelta, Stage 11
1st, 2015 Andalucia Ruta Ciclista Del Sol, Stage 4
1st, 2015 Tour, Stage 10

Froome is not a pure climber, is a complete rider.
He is very good in long stages with lot of long climbs.

Quintana is a supertalented climber, he is better climber, so he is normal he climb better in demanding climbing stages.

You can say that of others riders, not of Froome.

A complete rider is going to be better in the first mountain stage than a pure climber, becouse you pay all the flat of the forst weak.

Later in the race, with more climbing stages in the legs, a pure climber could be better. But if you compare with the rest, not with Quintana, Froome has been always the best in the mountains.

So you just ignore 2014? Vuelta , Dauphine You should take a look at this, you must have missed all this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YScKkvHIxwE


and what about this year when Bertie dropped Froome from 10km out. That was the first climb of the race? You just make it up as you go along ,,,,get some facts

Those is not in contradiction with I have said.
When you are the best, you cant win in all kind of stages, climbs as Camperona are just the worst for Froome, and he droped averybody there in la Vuelta,a nd he losed time in Farrapone,a climb much better for him. Why? Without team, the slope helpto drop, but taht stages are nor the best for him.

That is like of you say Quintana is very good on the cobbles becouse he was with the Nibali and the best in that stage.

If you compare with Quintana, better one climb, wuth mkost of the rest riders, no.
For contador use to be better one climb and no very long stage, althou8fh, of course, he can win a very long stage with 3nhard climbs, depend of the rivals and his level.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Re: Re:

What the hell are you talking about? Froome vuelta 2014 form was nowhere near this years tour form, he spent the first 2 weeks of the vuelta doing his own thing up the climbs, he stared the vuelta well below his normal form

^^^^^ This all day. After the Dauphine, Froome had 4 total racing days before the Vuelta. There is no way he was on 100% form and it showed for anybody who was watching. 2014 Vuelta form is no where close to his 2015 TDF form or his 2014 Dauphine form.

Be prepared, Ray is gearing up to make the argument that a weakened Contador beat a 100% Froome, but Froome has never beaten a 100% Contador. Yawwnnnnn.

 

[ray j willings]

Taxus , there is no consistency in anything you say. You contradict yourself all the time.

When Froome wins on a mountain it suits him, when he doesn't win on a mountain its because it's the wrong sort of mountain

You still never explained the Dauphine [2014] and how Froome could not drop Bertie full gas? 1st climb

 

[djpbaltimore]

1 climb? Climbs on the Dauphine stage 2.

Km 5.5 - Côte de Saint-Marcel-l'Éclairé5 kilometre-long climb at 6.1% - category 2
Km 16.5 - Côte d'Albigny2.3 kilometre-long climb at 5.5% - category 4
Km 90.5 - Côte de Bard6.3 kilometre-long climb at 5.3% - category 2
Km 100.5 - Col de la Croix de l'Homme Mort5.6 kilometre-long climb at 5.6% - category 2
Km 115.0 - Col des Pradeaux7.3 kilometre-long climb at 3.6% - category 3
Km 156.0 - Col du Béal13.6 kilometre-long climb at 6.6% - category H

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

What the hell are you talking about? Froome vuelta 2014 form was nowhere near this years tour form, he spent the first 2 weeks of the vuelta doing his own thing up the climbs, he stared the vuelta well below his normal form

^^^^^ This all day. After the Dauphine, Froome had 4 total racing days before the Vuelta. There is no way he was on 100% form and it showed for anybody who was watching. 2014 Vuelta form is no where close to his 2015 TDF form or his 2014 Dauphine form.

Be prepared, Ray is gearing up to make the argument that a weakened Contador beat a 100% Froome, but Froome has never beaten a 100% Contador. Yawwnnnnn.

Did Froome drop Bertie full gas at the Dauphine? take a look at the video again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YScKkvHIxwE

Watch all the times Bertie drops Froome and then in your minds make excuses for the" Froome beating"

"he's got asthma" " he has minor womans leg hurt" "His hair was to long" " he forgot to drink his beetroot juice",
" he forgot his special pillow" " his cat has gone missing"
get over it your man got the beating not that he deserved but that he needed

 

[djpbaltimore]

Remember the results of the stage that Contador never got dropped? Let me refresh your memory.

1) Froome
2) Contador

When have I ever made excuses for Froome's losses? Never because you are making it up like most of your arguments. Froome was beaten fair and square at both the 2012 and 2014 Vueltas. Just like Contador was beaten fair and square at the 2013 and 2015 Tours. You are the one trying to parse the issue by claiming that only races that riders are on 100% form matter, so you can distort the question to suit your agenda as usual.

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

Article talking about Froome's descending
http://www.skysports.com/cycling/news/15264/9927438/froome-the-rough-diamond

Carlos puts this article off as "Sky Narrative", but I've always argued that if Sky was looking for a specimen to build their Sky Bot from, they would pick one who is physiologically superior. Using one of my least favorite cliques, Sky wouldn't buy a donkey to develop into a KY Derby winner, they would buy a thoroughbred with the best/most potential. Sky could have bought almost any rider to build their new GC rider out of so there must have been something about CF's physiology that got their attention.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Article talking about Froome's descending
http://www.skysports.com/cycling/news/15264/9927438/froome-the-rough-diamond

Carlos puts this article off as "Sky Narrative", but I've always argued that if Sky was looking for a specimen to build their Sky Bot from, they would pick one who is physiologically superior. Using one of my least favorite cliques, Sky wouldn't buy a donkey to develop into a KY Derby winner, they would buy a thoroughbred with the best/most potential. Sky could have bought almost any rider to build their new GC rider out of so there must have been something about CF's physiology that got their attention.

Carlos is right, the article is by Sky Sports about Team Sky, no bias there at all

 

[Miburo]

no way he'll do the vuelta, he looked way too cooked in that tour

 

[ray j willings]

Re:

Remember the results of the stage that Contador never got dropped? Let me refresh your memory.

1) Froome
2) Contador

When have I ever made excuses for Froome's losses? Never because you are making it up like most of your arguments. Froome was beaten fair and square at both the 2012 and 2014 Vueltas. Just like Contador was beaten fair and square at the 2013 and 2015 Tours. You are the one trying to parse the issue by claiming that only races that riders are on 100% form matter, so you can distort the question to suit your agenda as usual.

How am I making it up ? You saw the video ? Bertie dropping Froome all over the place.

Froome just won a great tour and was a worthy winner. But he was not the best climber.

I want to see riders racing at their best don't you? Nibs was not at his best for much of the tour. I never said he could have beaten Froome if he was in top form because that is a unknown. Bertie is not a unknown. He's beat him.

There is certainly no agenda, I'm just pointing out that Froome is not the best climber and posted a video that proves that.
Let me ask you this ,,,if Froome gets no big time gap going into the big mountains of the tour next year do you think he will win against Quintana , a fit Bertie, etc ?
if you think he will win, explain to me how ,,,when every GT he has been in he has been dropped in the mountains including 2013.

 

[Vasilis]

Re:

no way he'll do the vuelta, he looked way too cooked in that tour

That's what I was thinking. Maybe give some opportunities to some lesser riders to ride for themselves, like Henao, Nieve, Roche, Boswell, maybe Poels and Thomas too. At the end of the second week I thought it was a good idea, but if he's tired it's a shame if the whole team is sacrificed for him, when he can't finish it off (we'll have to see who else goes though).

 

[djpbaltimore]

Re: Re:

How am I making it up ? You saw the video ? Bertie dropping Froome all over the place.

Froome just won a great tour and was a worthy winner. But he was not the best climber.

I want to see riders racing at their best don't you? Nibs was not at his best for much of the tour. I never said he could have beaten Froome if he was in top form because that is a unknown. Bertie is not a unknown. He's beat him.

There is certainly no agenda, I'm just pointing out that Froome is not the best climber and posted a video that proves that.
Let me ask you this ,,,if Froome gets no big time gap going into the big mountains of the tour next year do you think he will win against Quintana , a fit Bertie, etc ?
if you think he will win, explain to me how ,,,when every GT he has been in he has been dropped in the mountains including 2013.

No. I didn't watch the video. Every rider has been dropped by another rider as some point in the last few years. The Dauphine 2014 Stage 2 doesn't make a good case for Contador being the best climber, nor the reverse because it is a single data point as are whatever examples you chose. Contador, Quintana, and Froome can all make the claim to be the best climber in the world when at their best. Denying Froome that standing is not intellectually honest based on what he has done since 2012.

Froome has won 2 TDFs despite getting dropped on individual stages yet you don't see how he can win another one if he is dropped in the mountains? The route of the 2016 TDF hasn't been announced. There could be a late TT after the mountains, so your hypothetical question is impossible to answer. But, yes, I think he can still win the race if he is level on time if there is one or not. It might suggest that he is peaking for the third week like 2012 instead of early 'shock and awe' like in 2013 and 2015. Also if Quintana is level it might suggest he will not be as good in the third week as 2013, 2015 due to an earlier peak.

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

How am I making it up ? You saw the video ? Bertie dropping Froome all over the place.

Froome just won a great tour and was a worthy winner. But he was not the best climber.

I want to see riders racing at their best don't you? Nibs was not at his best for much of the tour. I never said he could have beaten Froome if he was in top form because that is a unknown. Bertie is not a unknown. He's beat him.

There is certainly no agenda, I'm just pointing out that Froome is not the best climber and posted a video that proves that.
Let me ask you this ,,,if Froome gets no big time gap going into the big mountains of the tour next year do you think he will win against Quintana , a fit Bertie, etc ?
if you think he will win, explain to me how ,,,when every GT he has been in he has been dropped in the mountains including 2013.

No. I didn't watch the video. Every rider has been dropped by another rider as some point in the last few years. The Dauphine 2014 Stage 2 doesn't make a good case for Contador being the best climber, nor the reverse because it is a single data point as are whatever examples you chose. Contador, Quintana, and Froome can all make the claim to be the best climber in the world when at their best. Denying Froome that standing is not intellectually honest based on what he has done since 2012.

Froome has won 2 TDFs despite getting dropped on individual stages yet you don't see how he can win another one if he is dropped in the mountains? The route of the 2016 TDF hasn't been announced. There could be a late TT after the mountains, so your hypothetical question is impossible to answer. But, yes, I think he can still win the race if he is level on time if there is one or not. It might suggest that he is peaking for the third week like 2012 instead of early 'shock and awe' like in 2013 and 2015. Also if Quintana is level it might suggest he will not be as good in the third week as 2013, 2015 due to an earlier peak.

You should watch the Video Its not all bad . It puts Froomes form into perspective that's all.
Unless Froome gets a big gap heading into the mountains over " Quintana or Bertie " then IMO going on his previous GT's he will not win. He would not have won this tour but for the "wind split" or if movie knew what the hell they were doing tactically...they were rubbish

I never said Bertie was the best climber. But a fully fit Bertie is stronger over a GT than a fully fit Froome IMO.

Bertie has beaten and matched Froome in their last 3 TT's . So that is in no way a given time gain, although Quintana would have to improve.

Quintana only got stronger as the tour went on.

You make some interesting points I just don't agree with them.

What I think we both agree on, is that this years tour was exciting and Froome was a worthy winner and lets hope next years can be better whoever comes out on top.

 

[djpbaltimore]

What I think we both agree on, is that this years tour was exciting and Froome was a worthy winner and lets hope next years can be better whoever comes out on top.

Yes, agreed.

How everybody made it through the first week mostly unscathed was a miracle. Hopefully next year we will be as lucky.

 

[jmdirt]

Re: Re:

Article talking about Froome's descending
http://www.skysports.com/cycling/news/15264/9927438/froome-the-rough-diamond

Carlos puts this article off as "Sky Narrative", but I've always argued that if Sky was looking for a specimen to build their Sky Bot from, they would pick one who is physiologically superior. Using one of my least favorite cliques, Sky wouldn't buy a donkey to develop into a KY Derby winner, they would buy a thoroughbred with the best/most potential. Sky could have bought almost any rider to build their new GC rider out of so there must have been something about CF's physiology that got their attention.

Carlos is right, the article is by Sky Sports about Team Sky, no bias there at all

The article in the link is from Sky, but its just a reprint of old news. If it was a link to the NY Times with the same story...

 

[rick james]

Re: Re:

How am I making it up ? You saw the video ? Bertie dropping Froome all over the place.

Froome just won a great tour and was a worthy winner. But he was not the best climber.

I want to see riders racing at their best don't you? Nibs was not at his best for much of the tour. I never said he could have beaten Froome if he was in top form because that is a unknown. Bertie is not a unknown. He's beat him.

There is certainly no agenda, I'm just pointing out that Froome is not the best climber and posted a video that proves that.
Let me ask you this ,,,if Froome gets no big time gap going into the big mountains of the tour next year do you think he will win against Quintana , a fit Bertie, etc ?
if you think he will win, explain to me how ,,,when every GT he has been in he has been dropped in the mountains including 2013.

No. I didn't watch the video. Every rider has been dropped by another rider as some point in the last few years. The Dauphine 2014 Stage 2 doesn't make a good case for Contador being the best climber, nor the reverse because it is a single data point as are whatever examples you chose. Contador, Quintana, and Froome can all make the claim to be the best climber in the world when at their best. Denying Froome that standing is not intellectually honest based on what he has done since 2012.

Froome has won 2 TDFs despite getting dropped on individual stages yet you don't see how he can win another one if he is dropped in the mountains? The route of the 2016 TDF hasn't been announced. There could be a late TT after the mountains, so your hypothetical question is impossible to answer. But, yes, I think he can still win the race if he is level on time if there is one or not. It might suggest that he is peaking for the third week like 2012 instead of early 'shock and awe' like in 2013 and 2015. Also if Quintana is level it might suggest he will not be as good in the third week as 2013, 2015 due to an earlier peak.

You should watch the Video Its not all bad . It puts Froomes form into perspective that's all.
Unless Froome gets a big gap heading into the mountains over " Quintana or Bertie " then IMO going on his previous GT's he will not win. He would not have won this tour but for the "wind split" or if movie knew what the hell they were doing tactically...they were rubbish

I never said Bertie was the best climber. But a fully fit Bertie is stronger over a GT than a fully fit Froome IMO.

Bertie has beaten and matched Froome in their last 3 TT's . So that is in no way a given time gain, although Quintana would have to improve.

Quintana only got stronger as the tour went on.

You make some interesting points I just don't agree with them.

What I think we both agree on, is that this years tour was exciting and Froome was a worthy winner and lets hope next years can be better whoever comes out on top.

Contador will never win the tour

 

[ray j willings]

rick james ,,,,,,, "Contador will never win the tour"

He's already won the tour and the Giro and the Vuelta

Seriously though I know what your saying ,did you see the video I posted ,,, its very good

 

[Hayabusa]

Ray you should really do yourself and everyone else a favour and stop posting in this thread purely to troll. It is getting rather tedious. You don't like Froome, we get it. Go to the Alberto Contador thread and support your rider, don't go into other threads with a very specifically tailored video just to troll.

You've earned your way (as the first person ever) onto my ignore list. Well done.

 

[ray j willings]

Ray you should really do yourself and everyone else a favour and stop posting in this thread purely to troll. It is getting rather tedious. You don't like Froome, we get it. Go to the Alberto Contador thread and support your rider, don't go into other threads with a very specifically tailored video just to troll.

You've earned your way (as the first person ever) onto my ignore list. Well done.

I can give my opinion. If you don't agree that's fine.
Its not the " Only say nice things about Chris Froome thread"
Your welcome to come over to the Bertie thread and give your opinion as a lot of Bertie haters do.
I don't put them on ignore.
I posted the video to back up my views. That's not trolling. You are upset by a cycling video
I enjoyed the tour and Froomes win.

 

[Irondan]

Please, enough of the troll accusations. Good greif...

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re: Re:

You should watch the Video Its not all bad . It puts Froomes form into perspective that's all.
Unless Froome gets a big gap heading into the mountains over " Quintana or Bertie " then IMO going on his previous GT's he will not win. He would not have won this tour but for the "wind split" or if movie knew what the hell they were doing tactically...they were rubbish

I never said Bertie was the best climber. But a fully fit Bertie is stronger over a GT than a fully fit Froome IMO.

Bertie has beaten and matched Froome in their last 3 TT's . So that is in no way a given time gain, although Quintana would have to improve.

Quintana only got stronger as the tour went on.

You make some interesting points I just don't agree with them.

What I think we both agree on, is that this years tour was exciting and Froome was a worthy winner and lets hope next years can be better whoever comes out on top.

I agree with most of what you say Ray, however Froome by his own admission has hardly spent any time on a TT bike this season as 'there was no point' (His words).

If they put in a nice flattish 50km iTT in next years tour I'd expect Froome to be back to his 2013 iTT performance where he wasn't far off beating Tony Martin, that's top form whichever way you cut it. Of course Contador's performance should be much stronger than that Tour but I think he will still lose time to Froome.

Quintana would be in damage limitation mode and could lose a lot of time unless he improves. He lost over 3 minutes in just 33km, whilst I expect he could be a little closer now with experience it wont be enough.

 

[mr. tibbs]

Re: Re:

no way he'll do the vuelta, he looked way too cooked in that tour

That's what I was thinking. Maybe give some opportunities to some lesser riders to ride for themselves, like Henao, Nieve, Roche, Boswell, maybe Poels and Thomas too. At the end of the second week I thought it was a good idea, but if he's tired it's a shame if the whole team is sacrificed for him, when he can't finish it off (we'll have to see who else goes though).

Much as I'd like to see Sky's impressive stable get some limelight time, I'd also be interested to see what Froome can do over the course of two GTs.