Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[bala v]

Giro-Tour is harder, but Tour-Vuelta is also bloody hard!

 

[SeriousSam]

If Froome walks away from the Vuelta without having been dropped like a bad habit by everyone who remotely matters, he'll have outdone Contador's double attempt.

 

[jsem94]

Since there's all this talk about which double is harder... I decided to do some research. How many people have placed top 5 in both GTs in either one of the doubles since the Vuelta was moved to autumn?

Brief research shows this:
Giro-Tour:
Pantani 1998: 1-1
Menchov 2008: 5-4
(Contador 2011 1-5)
Contador 2015 1-5

Tour-Vuelta:
Jalabert 1995: 4-1
Dufaux 1996: 4-2
Escartin 1997: 5-2
Heras 2000: 5-1
Beloki 2002: 2-3
Mancebo 2005: 4-4
Sastre 2006: 3-4
Sastre 2007: 4-2
Sastre 2008: 1-3
Rodriguez 2013: 3-4
Valverde 2013: 4-3
Valverde 2014: 4-3

So... 4 (or 3 depending on how you view Contador's ban) instances or 12 instances. Which double is harder?

But yeah. It's been a few years since a Tour winner went on to be competitive at the Vuelta, so it will be interesting. I wouldn't be totally surprised if he pulled it off.

 

[Richeypen]

Re:

Since there's all this talk about which double is harder... I decided to do some research. How many people have placed top 5 in both GTs in either one of the doubles since the Vuelta was moved to autumn?

Brief research shows this:
Giro-Tour:
Pantani 1998: 1-1
Menchov 2008: 5-4
(Contador 2011 1-5)
Contador 2015 1-5

Tour-Vuelta:
Jalabert 1995: 4-1
Dufaux 1996: 4-2
Escartin 1997: 5-2
Heras 2000: 5-1
Beloki 2002: 2-3
Mancebo 2005: 4-4
Sastre 2006: 3-4
Sastre 2007: 4-2
Sastre 2008: 1-3
Rodriguez 2013: 3-4
Valverde 2013: 4-3
Valverde 2014: 4-3

So... 4 (or 3 depending on how you view Contador's ban) instances or 12 instances. Which double is harder?

But yeah. It's been a few years since a Tour winner went on to be competitive at the Vuelta, so it will be interesting. I wouldn't be totally surprised if he pulled it off.

You missed Froome 2012 2-4

 

[DFA123]

No-one has done the Tour/Vuelta double since the latter was moved to the autumn. No-one has really even come close.

Giro-Tour double is easier because you can't win the TdF without being on top form - so you have to reach your peak form for that. It's then significantly easier to win the Giro with a mini-peak before reaching a super peak at the Tour, than it is to peak for the tour and try to hold that form all the way through to the Vuelta.

In any case, I suspect it's only possible to do the double if at least one of the GT's has a really weak field (kind of like the Giro this year). Froome has no chance of winning the Vuelta this year.

 

[jsem94]

I guess if you view the same stats I pulled up in that light, checking how many times a winner of the previous GT went on the place in the top 5 at the next, then it has happened three times in the Giro-Tour double and only once in the Tour-Vuelta double.

I guess people can interpret the data differently...

 

[damian13ster]

It is quite simple. Giro- Tour double has been done before. Tour- Vuelta was not (despite more attempts, and noone came close). Kind of self-explanatory

 

[Jspear]

It is quite simple. Giro- Tour double has been done before. Tour- Vuelta was not (despite more attempts, and noone came close). Kind of self-explanatory

Ha ha. Most of those attempts were by riders like Valverde, Sastre, and Jrod. Not really your best GC riders.

 

[damian13ster]

It is quite simple. Giro- Tour double has been done before. Tour- Vuelta was not (despite more attempts, and noone came close). Kind of self-explanatory

Ha ha. Most of those attempts were by riders like Valverde, Sastre, and Jrod. Not really your best GC riders.

Nevertheless, it has never been done. It just shows how ridiculously hard that is. I think it mostly has to do with the fact that post Tour you cant fully focus on preparations as a Tour winner, while that is not an issue after Giro. Also, there is much less time to prepare and at Vuelta in the last couple of years competition is much, much harder than in Giro

 

[Jspear]

It is quite simple. Giro- Tour double has been done before. Tour- Vuelta was not (despite more attempts, and noone came close). Kind of self-explanatory

Ha ha. Most of those attempts were by riders like Valverde, Sastre, and Jrod. Not really your best GC riders.

Nevertheless, it has never been done. It just shows how ridiculously hard that is. I think it mostly has to do with the fact that post Tour you cant fully focus on preparations as a Tour winner, while that is not an issue after Giro. Also, there is much less time to prepare and at Vuelta in the last couple of years competition is much, much harder than in Giro

But who has really tried since the Vuelta moved? That has to be taken into consideration.

 

[sir fly]

It is quite simple. Giro- Tour double has been done before. Tour- Vuelta was not (despite more attempts, and noone came close). Kind of self-explanatory

Ha ha. Most of those attempts were by riders like Valverde, Sastre, and Jrod. Not really your best GC riders.

Nevertheless, it has never been done. It just shows how ridiculously hard that is. I think it mostly has to do with the fact that post Tour you cant fully focus on preparations as a Tour winner, while that is not an issue after Giro. Also, there is much less time to prepare and at Vuelta in the last couple of years competition is much, much harder than in Giro

But who has really tried since the Vuelta moved? That has to be taken into consideration.

None dared.
How about this interpretation?

 

[Jelantik]

so Froome is doing the Contador flying by the seat of his pants? what are the odd of him winning the Vuelta? Contador 2011, dominant in the Giro, fatique at the Tour, finished 5th.

 

[Taxus4a]

It is quite simple. Giro- Tour double has been done before. Tour- Vuelta was not (despite more attempts, and noone came close). Kind of self-explanatory

Ha ha. Most of those attempts were by riders like Valverde, Sastre, and Jrod. Not really your best GC riders.

Nevertheless, it has never been done. It just shows how ridiculously hard that is. I think it mostly has to do with the fact that post Tour you cant fully focus on preparations as a Tour winner, while that is not an issue after Giro. Also, there is much less time to prepare and at Vuelta in the last couple of years competition is much, much harder than in Giro

But who has really tried since the Vuelta moved? That has to be taken into consideration.

Who has really tried since that date the double Giro-Tour? Not too much people

Why nobody has tried la Vuelta seriously after to win le Tour? Maybe becouse is too much demanding mentaly and phisically, that is the merit. some people dont want to go, but the team ask, as Nibali, but of you win le Tour, it is just your choice, and that is ssomething that shows Froome is a great champion, Lance wanst

There are Giros that are complicated, but a Giro where the most important contenders for Contador, Urán and Porte, none of then one of the biggest now in GT, had different problems by illnes, santions, crashes, it is not a difficult Giro to win, he even wanted to control all the factors with the team, working all the day even when he was no leader.

A Giro with Quintana or with Nibali with bad weather si a more demanding Giro.
Other thing is at the level that was Landa if the team was thinking in to win il Giro with him, that would be a serious Giro, but anyway Quintana is better than Landa, Landa was always close to Quintana: Avenir, Madrid, Neila, but never better.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

 

[TMP402]

I get the feeling the TTT is going to end someone's chances, even though everyone's playing it down.

 

[Taxus4a]

When he was in Burgos looking the ITT? A pity I missed that

 

[Billie]

froome is on his way to become the new Cancellara. Whining about everything

 

[Taxus4a]

so Froome is doing the Contador flying by the seat of his pants? what are the odd of him winning the Vuelta? Contador 2011, dominant in the Giro, fatique at the Tour, finished 5th.

Contador dominant in el Giro? Are you sure? He showed similar level in Giro and Tour, more spark in il Giro, but no more.

Bit you talk about Contador, we talk now about Froome,

Sastre was close to do it, he said the team didnt supported hi anyway he won le Tour and later he was 3rd on la Vuelta, I was wrong, Sastre was the first to try it.

Sastre is that kind of rider that can rode Giro, Tour and Vuelta and to be in all of them on the podium, is not the best reference, but Froome is better than Sastre, maybe he has no so big endurance and recovery as Sastre, but he has even more engine, specially for the flat stages.

 

[pastronef]

Re:

froome is on his way to become the new Cancellara. Whining about everything

Shane Stokes, Rory Sutherland, De Gendt and others complained on twitter.
riding a TTT on sand does not seem ok, no?

 

[the sceptic]

Re: Re:

froome is on his way to become the new Cancellara. Whining about everything

Shane Stokes, Rory Sutherland, De Gendt and others complained on twitter.
riding a TTT on sand does not seem ok, no?

no problem for Froome. He can finally use his sand shoes again!

 

[LaFlorecita]

so Froome is doing the Contador flying by the seat of his pants? what are the odd of him winning the Vuelta? Contador 2011, dominant in the Giro, fatique at the Tour, finished 5th.

Contador dominant in el Giro? Are you sure? He showed similar level in Giro and Tour, more spark in il Giro, but no more.

Bit you talk about Contador, we talk now about Froome,

Sastre was close to do it, he said the team didnt supported hi anyway he won le Tour and later he was 3rd on la Vuelta, I was wrong, Sastre was the first to try it.

Sastre is that kind of rider that can rode Giro, Tour and Vuelta and to be in all of them on the podium, is not the best reference, but Froome is better than Sastre, maybe he has no so big endurance and recovery as Sastre, but he has even more engine, specially for the flat stages.

Taxus believes Contador wasn't dominant in the Giro in 2011

 

[pastronef]

Re: Re:

froome is on his way to become the new Cancellara. Whining about everything

Shane Stokes, Rory Sutherland, De Gendt and others complained on twitter.
riding a TTT on sand does not seem ok, no?

no problem for Froome. He can finally use his sand shoes again!

I knew someone would say that when I wrote SAND

 

[AStiller]

so Froome is doing the Contador flying by the seat of his pants? what are the odd of him winning the Vuelta? Contador 2011, dominant in the Giro, fatique at the Tour, finished 5th.

Contador dominant in el Giro? Are you sure? He showed similar level in Giro and Tour, more spark in il Giro, but no more.

Bit you talk about Contador, we talk now about Froome,

Sastre was close to do it, he said the team didnt supported hi anyway he won le Tour and later he was 3rd on la Vuelta, I was wrong, Sastre was the first to try it.

Sastre is that kind of rider that can rode Giro, Tour and Vuelta and to be in all of them on the podium, is not the best reference, but Froome is better than Sastre, maybe he has no so big endurance and recovery as Sastre, but he has even more engine, specially for the flat stages.

Taxus believes Contador wasn't dominant in the Giro in 2011

He didn't even win it, didn't he?

 

[Red Rick]

so Froome is doing the Contador flying by the seat of his pants? what are the odd of him winning the Vuelta? Contador 2011, dominant in the Giro, fatique at the Tour, finished 5th.

Contador dominant in el Giro? Are you sure? He showed similar level in Giro and Tour, more spark in il Giro, but no more.

Bit you talk about Contador, we talk now about Froome,

Sastre was close to do it, he said the team didnt supported hi anyway he won le Tour and later he was 3rd on la Vuelta, I was wrong, Sastre was the first to try it.

Sastre is that kind of rider that can rode Giro, Tour and Vuelta and to be in all of them on the podium, is not the best reference, but Froome is better than Sastre, maybe he has no so big endurance and recovery as Sastre, but he has even more engine, specially for the flat stages.

Taxus believes Contador wasn't dominant in the Giro in 2011

He didn't even win it, didn't he?

Welcome, thanks for the pointless input, leads to pointless discussion, if that's what you're planning to do, then don't

 

[Singer01]

so Froome is doing the Contador flying by the seat of his pants? what are the odd of him winning the Vuelta? Contador 2011, dominant in the Giro, fatique at the Tour, finished 5th.

Contador dominant in el Giro? Are you sure? He showed similar level in Giro and Tour, more spark in il Giro, but no more.

Bit you talk about Contador, we talk now about Froome,

Sastre was close to do it, he said the team didnt supported hi anyway he won le Tour and later he was 3rd on la Vuelta, I was wrong, Sastre was the first to try it.

Sastre is that kind of rider that can rode Giro, Tour and Vuelta and to be in all of them on the podium, is not the best reference, but Froome is better than Sastre, maybe he has no so big endurance and recovery as Sastre, but he has even more engine, specially for the flat stages.

Taxus believes Contador wasn't dominant in the Giro in 2011

well he couldn't even drop tirolongo