Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

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Train is by design a defensive tactic and for it to be effective, your team needs a leader who can take decisive early advantage, like Froome have during both his Tour wins. If your leader is not substantially stronger than his rivals, the train loses most of its effectiveness and can even start to work in favour of his rivals if your team is not tactically flexible enough. In short, the strenght of your leader and tactical flexibility of your team are far more important in determining the favourable end result than the cumulative strenght of your mountain train.
 
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Põhja Konn said:
Train is by design a defensive tactic and for it to be effective, your team needs a leader who can take decisive early advantage, like Froome have during both his Tour wins. If your leader is not substantially stronger than his rivals, the train loses most of its effectiveness and can even start to work in favour of his rivals if your team is not tactically flexible enough. In short, the strenght of your leader and tactical flexibility of your team are far more important in determining the favourable end result than the cumulative strenght of your mountain train.

Well SKY were flexible in last year's Tour...they swaped domestiques and rode well on all terraine

Forum myth that SKY lack tactics just because they ride the tactic that works best for them ...and the proof is that they have won 3 of the last 4 Tours....
 
Mar 14, 2015
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dacooley said:
if i recall correctly this notorious tour place has been promised henao for years but he still didn't ride the tour. so i'm sure we'll see him in surely if he can keep his form at a high level.
That's true.Maybe this year he will make it.He just needs to keep his shape.
 
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dacooley said:
if i recall correctly this notorious tour place has been promised henao for years but he still didn't ride the tour. so i'm sure we'll see him in surely if he can keep his form at a high level.
Well he may have ridden tour in 2014 but for injury in Swiss and the long recovery probably had a say on 2015 tour place, I hope he rides the Tour this year.
 
Re: Re:

HelloDolly said:
Põhja Konn said:
Train is by design a defensive tactic and for it to be effective, your team needs a leader who can take decisive early advantage, like Froome have during both his Tour wins. If your leader is not substantially stronger than his rivals, the train loses most of its effectiveness and can even start to work in favour of his rivals if your team is not tactically flexible enough. In short, the strenght of your leader and tactical flexibility of your team are far more important in determining the favourable end result than the cumulative strenght of your mountain train.

Well SKY were flexible in last year's Tour...they swaped domestiques and rode well on all terraine

Forum myth that SKY lack tactics just because they ride the tactic that works best for them ...and the proof is that they have won 3 of the last 4 Tours....
sky as by far the most 'likeable' team on the forum is just analyzed for vulnerabilities with paranoid persistence & criticalness
 
Re:

Põhja Konn said:
Train is by design a defensive tactic and for it to be effective, your team needs a leader who can take decisive early advantage, like Froome have during both his Tour wins. If your leader is not substantially stronger than his rivals, the train loses most of its effectiveness and can even start to work in favour of his rivals if your team is not tactically flexible enough. In short, the strenght of your leader and tactical flexibility of your team are far more important in determining the favourable end result than the cumulative strenght of your mountain train.
Agreed. If Froome isn't stronger than the opposition like 2013 and 2015, it really isn't worth that much. Which I dont think he will be this year. But obviously, if he proves to be the strongest on the first MTF once again, those riders will come up extremely big.
 
Jun 30, 2014
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Re: Re:

HelloDolly said:
Põhja Konn said:
Train is by design a defensive tactic and for it to be effective, your team needs a leader who can take decisive early advantage, like Froome have during both his Tour wins. If your leader is not substantially stronger than his rivals, the train loses most of its effectiveness and can even start to work in favour of his rivals if your team is not tactically flexible enough. In short, the strenght of your leader and tactical flexibility of your team are far more important in determining the favourable end result than the cumulative strenght of your mountain train.

Well SKY were flexible in last year's Tour...they swaped domestiques and rode well on all terraine

Forum myth that SKY lack tactics just because they ride the tactic that works best for them ...and the proof is that they have won 3 of the last 4 Tours....
Sky had the best team tactics at the TdF, on the important stages they send the right people in the breakaway and swaped domestiques.
A train only works when you have the strongest leader or a big lead on gc because of the ITTs, otherwise it's rather pointless (See Astana and Aru on the Madonna di Campiglio stage).
 
having the best climbing train is a very big deal because it maximizes your gains when your leader is clearly the strongest and salvages leader's chanches when opponents put him in difficulty which happened to froome on alpe d'huez. sure even a train of domestics de luxe can not guarantee anything and all the more so can not win the tour for a leader, nonetheless it may play a decisive role if there are a few contenders being at a very close level.
 
Re: Re:

Valv.Piti said:
Põhja Konn said:
Train is by design a defensive tactic and for it to be effective, your team needs a leader who can take decisive early advantage, like Froome have during both his Tour wins. If your leader is not substantially stronger than his rivals, the train loses most of its effectiveness and can even start to work in favour of his rivals if your team is not tactically flexible enough. In short, the strenght of your leader and tactical flexibility of your team are far more important in determining the favourable end result than the cumulative strenght of your mountain train.
Agreed. If Froome isn't stronger than the opposition like 2013 and 2015, it really isn't worth that much. Which I dont think he will be this year. But obviously, if he proves to be the strongest on the first MTF once again, those riders will come up extremely big.
Based on what evidence since he has only ridden one race and won it ?
Unlike Contador who has ridden two and won neither

More like wishful thinking me thinks :)
 
Re: Re:

HelloDolly said:
Based on what evidence since he has only ridden one race and won it ?
Unlike Contador who has ridden two and won neither

More like wishful thinking me thinks :)
There are more riders than just Contador in the peloton (shocking I know :) ), so I am not sure why you would just focus on him.

But while we're at it, is beating up on a couple Continental teams really that much more impressive than just missing out on the victory in two races with world class competition while also proving to be the strongest climber in both?
 
Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
HelloDolly said:
Based on what evidence since he has only ridden one race and won it ?
Unlike Contador who has ridden two and won neither

More like wishful thinking me thinks :)
There are more riders than just Contador in the peloton (shocking I know :) ), so I am not sure why you would just focus on him.

But while we're at it, is beating up on a couple Continental teams really that much more impressive than just missing out on the victory in two races with world class competition while also proving to be the strongest climber in both?
I thought I left you over at the Paris Nice thread :D

I am talking about Contador as he is Froomes rival ...no point talking about anyone else
Unless you think Froome has a better rival ?? :D
 
Re:

dacooley said:
having the best climbing train is a very big deal because it maximizes your gains when your leader is clearly the strongest and salvages leader's chanches when opponents put him in difficulty which happened to froome on alpe d'huez. sure even a train of domestics de luxe can not guarantee anything and all the more so can not win the tour for a leader, nonetheless it may play a decisive role if there are a few contenders being at a very close level.
Of course is very important to have a very good team, not just for a mountain train, but for everything,becouse to be well prorecting and positioanting in the flat or at the begining of the short finakl climbs is maybe the more important work to do in cycling.

But people maybe think that to have a team with big stars means that they are going to be in the mountains as they showed before once, so Landa (if he rode) every mountain better that Contadior as in the Giro, Poels aalways like in his best days, Thomas the same , Roche who was 5th in la Vuelta,...in a team like that, someone has to do the work people dont see. For instance, if roche is everyday pulling the peloton, or protecting Froome of the wind or geting bottles from the car, in the last climb he will be droped from the begining. But the same Pole,s Landa, Thomas,...maybe thay can keep a little pullin in a mountain train, but just a little after that work.

The amazing of Thomas last year is that he was very strong helping in the flat, and later he was in the first days on the mountains with the best...he showed he cant be that way all the Tour, but with someone protecting Thomas on the flat stages, he could last more stages with the best... anyway,.. he is not a pure clinmber, so a stage with several climbs, with a high pacefrom the begining, he must fade.
 
Re: Re:

HelloDolly said:
LaFlorecita said:
HelloDolly said:
Based on what evidence since he has only ridden one race and won it ?
Unlike Contador who has ridden two and won neither

More like wishful thinking me thinks :)
There are more riders than just Contador in the peloton (shocking I know :) ), so I am not sure why you would just focus on him.

But while we're at it, is beating up on a couple Continental teams really that much more impressive than just missing out on the victory in two races with world class competition while also proving to be the strongest climber in both?
I thought I left you over at the Paris Nice thread :D

I am talking about Contador as he is Froomes rival ...no point talking about anyone else
Unless you think Froome has a better rival ?? :D
Quintana is Froomes strongest rival
 
Re: Re:

del1962 said:
HelloDolly said:
LaFlorecita said:
HelloDolly said:
Based on what evidence since he has only ridden one race and won it ?
Unlike Contador who has ridden two and won neither

More like wishful thinking me thinks :)
There are more riders than just Contador in the peloton (shocking I know :) ), so I am not sure why you would just focus on him.

But while we're at it, is beating up on a couple Continental teams really that much more impressive than just missing out on the victory in two races with world class competition while also proving to be the strongest climber in both?
I thought I left you over at the Paris Nice thread :D

I am talking about Contador as he is Froomes rival ...no point talking about anyone else
Unless you think Froome has a better rival ?? :D
Quintana is Froomes strongest rival
We haven't seen him yet this year ? Wonder how his form is
I think of the 3 he is the best climber and is a strong little fellow
But I still think its Froome V Contador ...because of the riders they are
Forome excellent on the climbs and tenacious
Contador unpredictable, explosive with a never say die attitude
 
Tour - Froome Thomas Intxausti (I don't think he will make the Giro) Poels Nieve Roche Kwiatkowski Rowe Stannard

Giro - Landa Sergio Henao Konig Seb Henao Kennaugh Kiryienka Knees Puccio Viviani
 
Re: Re:

HelloDolly said:
I am talking about Contador as he is Froomes rival ...no point talking about anyone else
Unless you think Froome has a better rival ?? :D
The post you replied to mentioned Froome's superiority over all his competitors so I don't think it would be weird to mention Quintana, Valverde, Aru besides Contador, especially because Contador is considered "done" by many on here so in that case Quintana and Aru will be Froome's most dangerous opponents.
 
Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
HelloDolly said:
I am talking about Contador as he is Froomes rival ...no point talking about anyone else
Unless you think Froome has a better rival ?? :D
The post you replied to mentioned Froome's superiority over all his competitors so I don't think it would be weird to mention Quintana, Valverde, Aru besides Contador, especially because Contador is considered "done" by many on here so in that case Quintana and Aru will be Froome's most dangerous opponents.
Aru??

I think Quintana is his main rival, and Contador very close with this parcours and his experience. Contador in the Giro let Aru go in the mountains, becouse he wanst worry of him, so Aru is clearly weaker than Contador, and more without experience in le Tour.

Contador maybe is not the best rider now, at least IMO is not, but is the reference of the last 10 years in cycling and he has important results in his career, so it is normal to talk about him. But in Spain lot of people talk about isabel Pantoja, Belén Esteban,..., so that is not always good. In the case of Contador, is not bad, it is just normal, he like that.
 
I know there is Aru & Quintana & TJ and others

but I still think it will be between Froome & Contador and what is more I think they believe that too

Froome has the strongest team and will be in top form...
Contador will also be at his best and will fight to the end ...
 
Re: Re:

HelloDolly said:
Põhja Konn said:
Train is by design a defensive tactic and for it to be effective, your team needs a leader who can take decisive early advantage, like Froome have during both his Tour wins. If your leader is not substantially stronger than his rivals, the train loses most of its effectiveness and can even start to work in favour of his rivals if your team is not tactically flexible enough. In short, the strenght of your leader and tactical flexibility of your team are far more important in determining the favourable end result than the cumulative strenght of your mountain train.

Well SKY were flexible in last year's Tour...they swaped domestiques and rode well on all terraine

Forum myth that SKY lack tactics just because they ride the tactic that works best for them ...and the proof is that they have won 3 of the last 4 Tours....
They won those Tours because they had the strongest rider (plural for the year Wiggins won) and the strongest overall team. Wiggins and Froome were the strongest climbers and head and shoulders above their rivals versus the clock. Having the strongest rider (and lately by a decent margin for Sky) can make many directors look like tactical geniuses. You can't execute the plan if you don't have the talent on hand to carry it out. How brilliant did Brailsford look prior to the emergence of Wiggins and Froome? How earth shattering has their tactics been in their efforts to win a monument?
 
Re: Re:

del1962 said:
HelloDolly said:
LaFlorecita said:
HelloDolly said:
Based on what evidence since he has only ridden one race and won it ?
Unlike Contador who has ridden two and won neither

More like wishful thinking me thinks :)
There are more riders than just Contador in the peloton (shocking I know :) ), so I am not sure why you would just focus on him.

But while we're at it, is beating up on a couple Continental teams really that much more impressive than just missing out on the victory in two races with world class competition while also proving to be the strongest climber in both?
I thought I left you over at the Paris Nice thread :D

I am talking about Contador as he is Froomes rival ...no point talking about anyone else
Unless you think Froome has a better rival ?? :D
Quintana is Froomes strongest rival
I would still place Contador above Quintana in terms of being Froome's strongest rival. He is the only currently active rider in the Pro Tour to ride a complete grand tour versus Froome and defeat him. Nibali should be given consideration also. I'd say there are really only the 4 of them at the top with Aru and Landa on the following tier. Bardet, Pinot and Van Garderen and maybe Porte are next.
 
Mar 13, 2015
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Re: Re:

HelloDolly said:
Valv.Piti said:
Põhja Konn said:
Train is by design a defensive tactic and for it to be effective, your team needs a leader who can take decisive early advantage, like Froome have during both his Tour wins. If your leader is not substantially stronger than his rivals, the train loses most of its effectiveness and can even start to work in favour of his rivals if your team is not tactically flexible enough. In short, the strenght of your leader and tactical flexibility of your team are far more important in determining the favourable end result than the cumulative strenght of your mountain train.
Agreed. If Froome isn't stronger than the opposition like 2013 and 2015, it really isn't worth that much. Which I dont think he will be this year. But obviously, if he proves to be the strongest on the first MTF once again, those riders will come up extremely big.
Based on what evidence since he has only ridden one race and won it ?
Unlike Contador who has ridden two and won neither

More like wishful thinking me thinks :)
Some race that was :p
 
Mar 27, 2015
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Re: Re:

Mr.White said:
HelloDolly said:
Valv.Piti said:
Põhja Konn said:
Train is by design a defensive tactic and for it to be effective, your team needs a leader who can take decisive early advantage, like Froome have during both his Tour wins. If your leader is not substantially stronger than his rivals, the train loses most of its effectiveness and can even start to work in favour of his rivals if your team is not tactically flexible enough. In short, the strenght of your leader and tactical flexibility of your team are far more important in determining the favourable end result than the cumulative strenght of your mountain train.
Agreed. If Froome isn't stronger than the opposition like 2013 and 2015, it really isn't worth that much. Which I dont think he will be this year. But obviously, if he proves to be the strongest on the first MTF once again, those riders will come up extremely big.
Based on what evidence since he has only ridden one race and won it ?
Unlike Contador who has ridden two and won neither

More like wishful thinking me thinks :)
Some race that was :p
Easy warm up ride in good conditions for Froome which however almost killed Kennaugh (and others) :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho9iPl_C6ns
 

Singer01

BANNED
Nov 18, 2013
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Re: Re:

Angliru said:
del1962 said:
HelloDolly said:
LaFlorecita said:
HelloDolly said:
Based on what evidence since he has only ridden one race and won it ?
Unlike Contador who has ridden two and won neither

More like wishful thinking me thinks :)
There are more riders than just Contador in the peloton (shocking I know :) ), so I am not sure why you would just focus on him.

But while we're at it, is beating up on a couple Continental teams really that much more impressive than just missing out on the victory in two races with world class competition while also proving to be the strongest climber in both?
I thought I left you over at the Paris Nice thread :D

I am talking about Contador as he is Froomes rival ...no point talking about anyone else
Unless you think Froome has a better rival ?? :D
Quintana is Froomes strongest rival
I would still place Contador above Quintana in terms of being Froome's strongest rival. He is the only currently active rider in the Pro Tour to ride a complete grand tour versus Froome and defeat him. Nibali should be given consideration also. I'd say there are really only the 4 of them at the top with Aru and Landa on the following tier. Bardet, Pinot and Van Garderen and maybe Porte are next.
Valverde and JROD sort of did, although they didn't win the GC they did defeat Froome.
Anyway, now that I'm done splitting hairs, until i see Quintana this year I wont know who Froome's biggest rival is. However I think that both Quintana and Contador play on Froome's mind, Quintana has dropped him a number of times even in his best tour years, and Contador is a f'ing nightmare to plan for. I doubt he gives a toss about Aru.
 
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