Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Quintana most likely pulled more than Contador, yet, when Contador was dropped, everyone was in awe

That's probably not true, Fraile said Contador and Castroviejo did most work.

From the live images, it looked about equal to me and Quintana pulled for the last 7 km straight.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Quintana most likely pulled more than Contador, yet, when Contador was dropped, everyone was in awe

That's probably not true, Fraile said Contador and Castroviejo did most work.

From the live images, it looked about equal to me and Quintana pulled for the last 7 km straight.

But from Fraile's words (and he was in the actual break, you know ) Contador did more work on the flat, especially to establish the initial 2 minute gap, and let's be honest, for riders like Contador and Quintana pushing the pace on the flat requires more energy than uphill. It makes sense, considering Contador was dropped by Elissonde and Felline.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Quintana most likely pulled more than Contador, yet, when Contador was dropped, everyone was in awe

That's probably not true, Fraile said Contador and Castroviejo did most work.

From the live images, it looked about equal to me and Quintana pulled for the last 7 km straight.

But from Fraile's words (and he was in the actual break, you know ) Contador did more work on the flat, especially to establish the initial 2 minute gap, and let's be honest, for riders like Contador and Quintana pushing the pace on the flat requires more energy than uphill. It makes sense, considering Contador was dropped by Elissonde and Felline.

Lets say so. Semantics. Alberto pulled a little more.

It was a part of a bigger point which I hope you could appreciate instead of just quoting that little point which you didn't agree on; that Quintana's (presumable) win is hugely downplayed by many and its almost on coincidence and luck which makes me sad.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

Quintana most likely pulled more than Contador, yet, when Contador was dropped, everyone was in awe

That's probably not true, Fraile said Contador and Castroviejo did most work.

From the live images, it looked about equal to me and Quintana pulled for the last 7 km straight.

But from Fraile's words (and he was in the actual break, you know ) Contador did more work on the flat, especially to establish the initial 2 minute gap, and let's be honest, for riders like Contador and Quintana pushing the pace on the flat requires more energy than uphill. It makes sense, considering Contador was dropped by Elissonde and Felline.

Lets say so. Semantics. Alberto pulled a little more.

It was a part of a bigger point which I hope you could appreciate instead of just quoting that little point which you didn't agree on; that Quintana's (presumable) win is hugely downplayed by many and its almost on coincidence and luck which makes me sad.

It is lucky after all. He is not the strongest overall rider in this race.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

It was a part of a bigger point which I hope you could appreciate instead of just quoting that little point which you didn't agree on; that Quintana's (presumable) win is hugely downplayed by many and its almost on coincidence and luck which makes me sad.

Oh yeah I agree with that, I also replied to someone who wrote Quintana didn't do any work in the break and told him that isn't true at all.

 

[Singer01]

there is absolutely no way of knowing what would have happened on the stage if the gap hadn't occurred. and it should be taken into account that the 30 seconds were taken when froome probably already knew he had lost the vuelta, morale plays a big part in performance.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Quintana most likely pulled more than Contador, yet, when Contador was dropped, everyone was in awe

That's probably not true, Fraile said Contador and Castroviejo did most work.

From the live images, it looked about equal to me and Quintana pulled for the last 7 km straight.

But from Fraile's words (and he was in the actual break, you know ) Contador did more work on the flat, especially to establish the initial 2 minute gap, and let's be honest, for riders like Contador and Quintana pushing the pace on the flat requires more energy than uphill. It makes sense, considering Contador was dropped by Elissonde and Felline.

Lets say so. Semantics. Alberto pulled a little more.

It was a part of a bigger point which I hope you could appreciate instead of just quoting that little point which you didn't agree on; that Quintana's (presumable) win is hugely downplayed by many and its almost on coincidence and luck which makes me sad.

Quintana fully deserves to win this Vuelta

But come on it's a forum, surely you don't expect us to be sensible and not pointlessly speculate?

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

It is lucky after all. He is not the strongest overall rider in this race.[/quote]

What a BS.

Quintana leads the race, so he is the strongest and best so far, period. Attacks in right place, following those attacks and selecting right tactics in every stage is equally important and a signal of overall strenght in GT compared to a win of single TT stage where someone might take 2 minutes. Get over with.

 

[Bolder]

Re: Re:

It is lucky after all. He is not the strongest overall rider in this race.

What a BS.

Quintana leads the race, so he is the strongest and best so far, period. Attacks in right place, following those attacks and selecting right tactics in every stage is equally important and a signal of overall strenght in GT compared to a win of single TT stage where someone might take 2 minutes. Get over with.[/quote]

I think by any comparison Quintana has been the strongest. But Froome has been very canny, knowing he's not 100 percent of TdF beast mode. Had Contador lived up to "el pistolero" and attacked, Froome would be leading after the ITT. no way Nairo goes on a solo attack.

 

[Amnes2015]

theres no point discussing what if stage 15 never happened, same thing about crosswinds stage at TdF 2015. race would have been different. it's Sci-Fi territory.

 

[bambino]

Of course you can always say that without AC attacking Froome would be in lead. But Nairo had to follow and that is what Chris wasn't able to do. You can't just deny that fact. In that logic one could also say that Nairo would lead with 3,5 minutes should've he been 2 minute faster in TT.

The clock is the only thing that matters and whoever is fastest is the best.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Had Contador lived up to "el pistolero" and attacked, Froome would be leading after the ITT. no way Nairo goes on a solo attack.

Huh I thought Contador attacked which is why Nairo is still in the lead?

This discussion is ridiculous, stage 15 was a fair stage, Quintana and Contador didn't attack during neutralization, didn't attack after Froome had a mechanical, they attacked at a fair moment and Froome was caught napping and his teammates were caught out even more. Tough luck. Even though Froome didn't spend a single second with his nose in the wind he still lost time to Quintana on the final climb. Quintana was simply stronger that day and deserves his lead.

Froome did an exceptional TT which brought him back into the game but I'm afraid for him it will be too little too late.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Had Contador lived up to "el pistolero" and attacked, Froome would be leading after the ITT. no way Nairo goes on a solo attack.

Huh I thought Contador attacked which is why Nairo is still in the lead?

This discussion is ridiculous, stage 15 was a fair stage, Quintana and Contador didn't attack during neutralization, didn't attack after Froome had a mechanical, they attacked at a fair moment and Froome was caught napping and his teammates were caught out even more. Tough luck. Even though Froome didn't spend a single second with his nose in the wind he still lost time to Quintana on the final climb. Quintana was simply stronger that day and deserves his lead.

Froome did an exceptional TT which brought him back into the game but I'm afraid for him it will be too little too late.

Froome did not spend a single second with his nose in the wind ? You must have seen different footage to me. Froome has already admitted that his team and himself got caught napping but it's probably going to cost him the race. Froome has already admitted more than once that the stage was all in fair play.

 

[Miburo]

Fleur, you're not afraid for Froome. We should thank the lords that Contador did what he did in stage 15, otherwise Froome succeeded a double with the tour in it, which contador never could

 

[silvergrenade]

Re:

Fleur, you're not afraid for Froome. We should thank the lords that Contador did what he did in stage 15, otherwise Froome succeeded a double with the tour in it, which contador never could

If this year is any indication, he can surely do the double. Just focusing on The Tour and The Vuelta for the entire season, he can do it. Everybody would be running to do the Giro IMO. :lol: :lol:

If anybody can, its Froome.

And he's a tenacious and exceptoinally strong: Both mentally and physically. He'll be back next year to claim what shouldve been his a long time back.

 

[Miburo]

Tour-vuelta is still way easier than giro-tour though.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re:

Tour-vuelta is still way easier than giro-tour though.

Contador should try it then. He can do it waaay easily. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Oh wait, he tried this year.

 

[Red Rick]

Tour Vuelta is doable by like every rider who's good enough to win the Tour. Froome is getting beaten by a rider who also rode the Tour. Ergo, Quintana can certainly also do it.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Tour-vuelta is still way easier than giro-tour though.

Its easier, but way easier? I don't necessarily think so. Contador on the peak of his powers might have been able to do it in 2011 (chances are he would be 2nd or 3rd) if not for crashes, bad TTT and so on. Menchov did very well in 2008. But its definitely harder.

But everything just needs to go right. Froome could have done it in 2015 and I think he would, honestly, seeing who he was going up against: Dumoulin, Aru, old Purito... he could've potentially done it this year if not for falling asleep again (he would probably be in the lead around 30-60 secs, lets just assume that), but probably won't.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Froome did not spend a single second with his nose in the wind ? You must have seen different footage to me. Froome has already admitted that his team and himself got caught napping but it's probably going to cost him the race. Froome has already admitted more than once that the stage was all in fair play.

He was in the wind for a short while right after the start to bridge to Contador's group, then he spent 100km behind his teammates, Scarponi's teammates, Chaves' teammates, Sanchez' teammates. Whenever the rider in front of him would drop off, instead of taking a pull himself, he started looking back for help. He only started pulling with what, 10km to go? If not later. Meanwhile Quintana and Contador were taking pulls in their group for the entire duration of the stage. They spent way more energy, it's only fair that it was rewarded with a time gain.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Fleur, you're not afraid for Froome.

That is why I wrote "I'm afraid for Froome", I couldn't care less if he loses, but in his place I am afraid he won't succeed.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re:

Tour Vuelta is doable by like every rider who's good enough to win the Tour. Froome is getting beaten by a rider who also rode the Tour. Ergo, Quintana can certainly also do it.

Tour-Vuelta is doable for everybody? You think Wiggins can do it? Nibali? Definitely not. He cant win the Tour with Froome Quinti both. Contador? Naah. Who has done a 1-2 in the recent era?

Froome did the Olympics in between.
But sure, Quintana can do it too. No question. But he needs to win the Tour first.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Tour-vuelta is still way easier than giro-tour though.

Its easier, but way easier? I don't necessarily think so. Contador on the peak of his powers might have been able to do it in 2011 (chances are he would be 2nd or 3rd) if not for crashes, bad TTT and so on. Menchov did very well in 2008. But its definitely harder.

But everything just needs to go right. Froome could have done it in 2015 and I think he would, honestly, seeing who he was going up against: Dumoulin, Aru, old Purito... he could've potentially done it this year if not for falling asleep again (he would probably be in the lead around 30-60 secs, lets just assume that), but probably won't.

A small difference in toughness makes a large difference in how likely they are to succeed. Sample size is obviously bigger for Tour-Vuelta, so naturally we see more decent attempts at competing in both. A fair number of riders have been competitive doing both the Tour and the Vuelta, and achieving a level in the latter that is fairly close to the Tour. Right now, Quintana is even better at the Vuelta. For the rest you have Froome, Quintana, Valverde, Purito, and even guys like Majka riding a good Vuelta after the Tour, though Majka didn't ride the GC in the Tour. The Giro/Tour double only has Contador and Valverde, and neither of them got close to winning.

It's certainly true that for a top GC contender the Giro is easier to win than the Tour, but that doesn't mean it's not less tiring. The Giro nearly always has more and harder climbs than the Tour, and usually the final climbs are going all out anyway. Especially the recent Giro parcourses that try to generate action from far out, seem less forgiving than the recent Tours.

The bigger difference though, is in the 2nd GT you try to win. You can't compete for the win at the Tour at 95%. This year might have been the odd one out. The Tour is far less forgiving then the Vuelta for those who are already tired, as a tired rider is far more likely to crack in a tough mountain stage than in a 20 minute all out effort uphill.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Tour Vuelta is doable by like every rider who's good enough to win the Tour. Froome is getting beaten by a rider who also rode the Tour. Ergo, Quintana can certainly also do it.

Tour-Vuelta is doable for everybody? You think Wiggins can do it? Nibali? Definitely not. He cant win the Tour with Froome Quinti both. Contador? Naah. Who has done a 1-2 in the recent era?

Froome did the Olympics in between.
But sure, Quintana can do it too. No question. But he needs to win the Tour first.

I would've loved to see 2014 Nibali giving it a go. Only 2011 and 2012 are almost impossible. I think Contador could've done it in 2009 and 2010 with his eyes closed.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Red Rick, I generally agree; Giro-Tour is generally tougher, no doubt. Chances are Contador would have won 1 Vuelta in 2009 and 2010 - he was stronger in 2009, but the competition was tougher in the Vuelta (Valverde, Sami and Cuddles without Tour is no joke), while he was weaker in 2010 when the field was incredibly weak in the Vuelta. For him to win both everything just has to go right: so slightly bad days, no crashes, no nothing which probably will be the hardest thing. Saying he could've won both Vuelta's EASILY is probably a stretch, especially because Contador always is at an incredibly high level in the spring which most likely would hamper him in the Vuelta. Altho, with a Froome 2016-approach, it will be easier.