Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[dacooley]

any successful long rage move implies playing out a VERY STRONG team card which Froome lacked so hugely, so no regrets.

 

[jens_attacks]

with such a team, he couldn't do anything better. lost it all on formigal

anyway, chapeau!

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Keep up what they were doing before they sat up. Failing that, set up as high a pace as they could muster in an attempt to burn Quintana out and to catch the break (thus opening up the possibility of taking some bonus seconds if things went well).

Set up a high pace with who? Once Orica upped it, everyone bar König was gone.

He took a minute out of the rest of the field in the TT yesterday. If he really wanted to lay it all on the line for the win, he could have gone himself. He had over 100km to try to get a small gap and try to TT away; but he wasn't interested. He also had a team mate in the break up the road, who could have performed a similar ole to Howson.

As above, it's understandable not wanting to risk 2nd place like that, because it most probably wouldn't have worked. But he gave himself no chance of winning the race by waiting until the final 6km.

 

[roundabout]

Re:

All these complaints about his team which boil down to its not being the STRONGEST in the race and then you see what Orica does with fewer and worse domestiques simply by using them properly. What use did Sky get out of König? Saved him for nothing.

Of course nothing Froome could do would be particularly likely to work, but that was never the point.

Orica were not racing against Movistar in their long-range attacks.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Or maybe he just wasn't strong enough to drop the strongest climber in the race?

If he wasn't strong enough to drop the strongest climber in the race in a straight fight (and everybody knows he wasn't), why did he gamble everything on being able to do just that?

Answer: because he didn't want to take risks.

Were you not watching? Sky put the hammer down right at the start of the stage, and it was chaos. He also attacked over the top of the 2nd to last climb but Quintana wasn't an idiot this time and didn't let him get a gap. There were no crosswinds to use, and anyway Sky were a lot weaker than Movistar even if there had been crosswinds. What more did you want him to do?

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

Were you not watching?

I was, hence what I'm saying about "keeping it up instead of sitting up when they did".

Orica were not racing against Movistar in their long-range attacks.

Which would make Froome's continued attempts far less likely to succeed, yes.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Or maybe he just wasn't strong enough to drop the strongest climber in the race?

If he wasn't strong enough to drop the strongest climber in the race in a straight fight (and everybody knows he wasn't), why did he gamble everything on being able to do just that?

Answer: because he didn't want to take risks.

Were you not watching? Sky put the hammer down right at the start of the stage, and it was chaos. He also attacked over the top of the 2nd to last climb but Quintana wasn't an idiot this time and didn't let him get a gap. There were no crosswinds to use, and anyway Sky were a lot weaker than Movistar even if there had been crosswinds. What more did you want him to do?

Perhaps try to send four or five riders into a break continually for the first 120km. Absolutely burning Movistar out trying to chase them all down. And then Froome could try to attack himself about where Chaves did. That would give him 50km to try to drop Quintana, rather than 6km.

 

[kenk09]

His ONLY chance was to make it Froome vs Quintana on the final climb, and hope Quintana was weak. Movistar were not letting him go at any other point.

That was the only way he had absolutely no chance of winning. Quintana has outclimbed him pretty comfortably all race - he was never going to be able to drop him and gain over a minute on one climb.

He had to create chaos well before the last climb. Not some half-hearted effort 50km into the stage, then doing nothing for the next 120km.

I can understand that he didn't want to risk everything and possibly jeopordize his 2nd place - but still a bit disappointed he didn't try.

He did try.

Movistar chased down Konig, Kennaugh, Puccio, Lopes. Time and time again. There was no point in the stage where Sky were allowed to get anyone up the road in a dangerous position. Froome attacked on the descent, Quintana stayed with him. Froome attacked again over the top of the penultimate climb, Movistar stayed with him.

People are asking for miracles. Again, the only chance he had was to hope Quintana was weak on the final climb. He wasn't.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Or maybe he just wasn't strong enough to drop the strongest climber in the race?

If he wasn't strong enough to drop the strongest climber in the race in a straight fight (and everybody knows he wasn't), why did he gamble everything on being able to do just that?

Answer: because he didn't want to take risks.

Were you not watching? Sky put the hammer down right at the start of the stage, and it was chaos. He also attacked over the top of the 2nd to last climb but Quintana wasn't an idiot this time and didn't let him get a gap. There were no crosswinds to use, and anyway Sky were a lot weaker than Movistar even if there had been crosswinds. What more did you want him to do?

Perhaps try to send four or five riders into a break continually for the first 120km. Absolutely burning Movistar out trying to chase them all down. And then Froome could try to attack himself about where Chaves did. That would give him 50km to try to drop Quintana, rather than 6km.

They did do that, until eventually David Lopez was up the road and Froome only had Konig with him. Maybe he could have told Konig to burn himself out to get in a break as well, but even that wouldn't have made much difference.

What Froome really should have done was told Konig to go full gas up the 2nd to last climb, Froome attacks 750m before the summit (bit like Chaves actually) and take a small lead into the descent

 

[silvergrenade]

Really classy to see his post on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/chrisfroome/status/774660440597094400

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

What Froome really should have done was told Konig to go full gas up the 2nd to last climb, Froome attacks 750m before the summit (bit like Chaves actually) and take a small lead into the descent

Wait, are you admitting that Froome didn't actually do everything he could?

 

[Flamin]

Re:

All these complaints about his team which boil down to its not being the STRONGEST in the race and then you see what Orica does with fewer and worse domestiques simply by using them properly. What use did Sky get out of König? Saved him for nothing. David López in the break, also for nothing.

Of course nothing Froome could do would be particularly likely to work, but that was never the point.

Orica's doms were actually very strong today, way stronger than Sky. Did you miss how they were drilling it with half their team and Froome only had König? And I doubt they 'saved' König. There's just nothing König can do against 4 Movistars.

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

Keep up what they were doing before they sat up. Failing that, set up as high a pace as they could muster in an attempt to burn Quintana out and to catch the break (thus opening up the possibility of taking some bonus seconds if things went well).

Set up a high pace with who? Once Orica upped it, everyone bar König was gone.

He took a minute out of the rest of the field in the TT yesterday. If he really wanted to lay it all on the line for the win, he could have gone himself. He had over 100km to try to get a small gap and try to TT away; but he wasn't interested. He also had a team mate in the break up the road, who could have performed a similar ole to Howson.

As above, it's understandable not wanting to risk 2nd place like that, because it most probably wouldn't have worked. But he gave himself no chance of winning the race by waiting until the final 6km.

I apologize, I didn't realize Froome won an ITT with a minute advantage, against Movistar who was allowed to do a TTT.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Keep up what they were doing before they sat up. Failing that, set up as high a pace as they could muster in an attempt to burn Quintana out and to catch the break (thus opening up the possibility of taking some bonus seconds if things went well).

Set up a high pace with who? Once Orica upped it, everyone bar König was gone.

He took a minute out of the rest of the field in the TT yesterday. If he really wanted to lay it all on the line for the win, he could have gone himself. He had over 100km to try to get a small gap and try to TT away; but he wasn't interested. He also had a team mate in the break up the road, who could have performed a similar ole to Howson.

As above, it's understandable not wanting to risk 2nd place like that, because it most probably wouldn't have worked. But he gave himself no chance of winning the race by waiting until the final 6km.

I apologize, I didn't realize Froome won an ITT with a minute advantage, against Movistar who was allowed to do a TTT.

As I said, it probably wouldn't have succeeded. But in that situation - if you are going all out for the win - you have to keep trying unusual, unsuspected things. Waiting for the last 6km of the last climb for over 100km, punctuated by one half hearted downhill attack, was a bit disappointing.

But he comfortably held onto 2nd place. Perhaps that was the main aim, and winning would have just been a bonus if Quintana had blown up unexpectedly.

 

[IndianCyclist]

His team was not strong enough to destroy Movistar. He was not strong enough to break Quintana. And the Team strategy was awful as seen with Koing useless attack where he dropped Froome and Lopez's useless dropping where he could not contribute. The only strategy possible was to isolate Quintana on the flattish portion long before the final climb making it unpredictable.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

What Froome really should have done was told Konig to go full gas up the 2nd to last climb, Froome attacks 750m before the summit (bit like Chaves actually) and take a small lead into the descent

Wait, are you admitting that Froome didn't actually do everything he could?

He wasn't perfect today, no. Don't think it would have made any difference to the final result, but easy to say in hindsight that there's a very slight chance that that may have worked

 

[Laplaz]

Great champion. Chapeau.

 

[SeriousSam]

He came remarkably close to doing the double. What an utterly dominant season he's had. Incredible how he reaches a world-beating form very single year since late 2011.

 

[IndianCyclist]

One rider missing who could have saved Froome on Formigal or made a difference today was Kwiatkowski

 

[Inquitus]

Re:

One rider missing who could have saved Froome on Formigal or made a difference today was Kwiatkowski

I think Landa and Roche were sorely missed to be honest.

 

[Amnes2015]

grats on the best cycling season since Pantani's double
with olympic bronze in i would say its on par with Pantani's double

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

grats on the best cycling season since Pantani's double
with olympic bronze in i would say its on par with Pantani's double

I'm really not sure if serious.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

grats on the best cycling season since Pantani's double
with olympic bronze in i would say its on par with Pantani's double

Throw in his Herald Sun Tour victory and surely it's the greatest season since Indurain 1993.

 

[Amnes2015]

Re: Re:

grats on the best cycling season since Pantani's double
with olympic bronze in i would say its on par with Pantani's double

I'm really not sure if serious.

i'm waiting for your argument

i don't think there is any discussion about this TdF 1st Vuelta 2nd Olympics bronze > any season that any cyclist has had since Pantani's double

so let's discuss why Froome 2016 = Pantani 1998 imo

because of the location of the post im not going in to the Froome 2016 = Indurain 1993 stuff

 

[jens_attacks]

super awesome peak

but 2nd is 2nd.