Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[DFA123]

Re:

He's getting weaker weaker weaker...dead dead dead....
but unfortunately this is not so

It's all under control good peace of detractors

He's obviously getting weaker. Equally, he clearly still has the GC under control. But there are weaknesses to be exploited that wasn't possible in the first week or so - when he looked the strongest climber in the race.

The one remaining challenge for him is how he handles the 20%+ gradients of the last week, when he won't be able to lean on his team for any help. We've already seen him spectacularly blow up in the Pyrenees on similar slopes this year.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

Re: Re:

He's getting weaker weaker weaker...dead dead dead....
but unfortunately this is not so

It's all under control good peace of detractors

He is getting weaker but he still is able to follow the sky train

Which is all he needs to do to achieve his aim of winning this race. Anything can happen on future stages but up to now, he is doing what is needed.

 

[Matteo.]

Re: Re:

He's getting weaker weaker weaker...dead dead dead....
but unfortunately this is not so

It's all under control good peace of detractors

He's obviously getting weaker. Equally, he clearly still has the GC under control. But there are weaknesses to be exploited that wasn't possible in the first week or so - when he looked the strongest climber in the race.

The one remaining challenge for him is how he handles the 20%+ gradients of the last week, when he won't be able to lean on his team for any help. We've already seen him spectacularly blow up in the Pyrenees on similar slopes this year.

As i said to Portugal
When you are getting weaker but your opponents are weaker than you....what's the difference?
Of course he is not the best froome but It's enough that.
Now the ITT ( where He Will increase the gap) And finally the angliru.
Today was the last chance in my opinion

 

[bigcog]

Re: Re:

He's getting weaker weaker weaker...dead dead dead....
but unfortunately this is not so

It's all under control good peace of detractors

He's obviously getting weaker. Equally, he clearly still has the GC under control. But there are weaknesses to be exploited that wasn't possible in the first week or so - when he looked the strongest climber in the race.

The one remaining challenge for him is how he handles the 20%+ gradients of the last week, when he won't be able to lean on his team for any help. We've already seen him spectacularly blow up in the Pyrenees on similar slopes this year.

Think the Angliru will be key, he could lose a packet against Lopez, so he needs to gain time in the ITT.

 

[deValtos]

Another day ticked off. Good good.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

He's getting weaker weaker weaker...dead dead dead....
but unfortunately this is not so

It's all under control good peace of detractors

He's obviously getting weaker. Equally, he clearly still has the GC under control. But there are weaknesses to be exploited that wasn't possible in the first week or so - when he looked the strongest climber in the race.

The one remaining challenge for him is how he handles the 20%+ gradients of the last week, when he won't be able to lean on his team for any help. We've already seen him spectacularly blow up in the Pyrenees on similar slopes this year.

Think the Angliru will be key, he could lose a packet against Lopez, so he needs to gain time in the ITT.

Yeah, it's definitely an interesting kind of wild card to have, which keeps the race alive. If Lopez can take some time back in the final week (after the TT) and somehow close the gap to two minutes before Stage 20, then I think Froome could be really vulnerable. Anyone having a bad day could easily lose three minutes on Angliru, especially if Lopez can hold his form and light it up from the start.

Equally though, by that stage, Lopez might just ride to consolidate a podium position or to go for another stage win.

 

[Richeypen]

Re: Re:

He's getting weaker weaker weaker...dead dead dead....
but unfortunately this is not so

It's all under control good peace of detractors

He's obviously getting weaker. Equally, he clearly still has the GC under control. But there are weaknesses to be exploited that wasn't possible in the first week or so - when he looked the strongest climber in the race.

The one remaining challenge for him is how he handles the 20%+ gradients of the last week, when he won't be able to lean on his team for any help. We've already seen him spectacularly blow up in the Pyrenees on similar slopes this year.

Think the Angliru will be key, he could lose a packet against Lopez, so he needs to gain time in the ITT.

Lopez could easily be 5 mins down after the TT. He wont be allowed any freedom to attack if he is any danger on GC.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Of course he's getting weaker, it's coming to the third week of his second consecutive grand tour...

But he took advantage of his form when he had it in his first week and looks like he's built up enough of a lead to secure a historic GT double

 

[spalco]

Re: Re:

Lopez could easily be 5 mins down after the TT. He wont be allowed any freedom to attack if he is any danger on GC.

But Lopez doesn't need permission if his legs are as strong as today...

We'll see what the GC looks like after the TT, but I think he's threat #1 now.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

He's getting weaker weaker weaker...dead dead dead....
but unfortunately this is not so

It's all under control good peace of detractors

He's obviously getting weaker. Equally, he clearly still has the GC under control. But there are weaknesses to be exploited that wasn't possible in the first week or so - when he looked the strongest climber in the race.

The one remaining challenge for him is how he handles the 20%+ gradients of the last week, when he won't be able to lean on his team for any help. We've already seen him spectacularly blow up in the Pyrenees on similar slopes this year.

Think the Angliru will be key, he could lose a packet against Lopez, so he needs to gain time in the ITT.

Lopez could easily be 5 mins down after the TT. He wont be allowed any freedom to attack if he is any danger on GC.

If Froome doesn't have good enough legs, then Sky won't have a choice about giving Lopez freedom to attack. He has a kick to get away from them easily. And on Stage 20, the last 50km has no flat and pretty much no climbing below about 9% gradient. A solo rider could go early and gain minutes there if they are the strongest in the race - and there is nothing the Sky train could do about it.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

He's getting weaker weaker weaker...dead dead dead....
but unfortunately this is not so

It's all under control good peace of detractors

He's obviously getting weaker. Equally, he clearly still has the GC under control. But there are weaknesses to be exploited that wasn't possible in the first week or so - when he looked the strongest climber in the race.

The one remaining challenge for him is how he handles the 20%+ gradients of the last week, when he won't be able to lean on his team for any help. We've already seen him spectacularly blow up in the Pyrenees on similar slopes this year.

Think the Angliru will be key, he could lose a packet against Lopez, so he needs to gain time in the ITT.

Lopez could easily be 5 mins down after the TT. He wont be allowed any freedom to attack if he is any danger on GC.

I don't think the post-Tour Froome ever armored by Poels' and Nieve's help has the necessary watts to resist to the young colombian superclimber. Luckily for him, Lopez lost a big chunk of time on week 1. Otoh, Froome is riding in overly conservative and energy-saving way which is very important especially before time trial. We can hardly require him winning the Vuelta straight after the Tour flying uphill. The vuelta was doomed to be a pure endurance test for dawg which is actually happening at the moment.

 

[Matteo.]

only a nasty terrible day can make froome lose this race. nibali and chaves are, after all, weaker than him and his biggest opponent may be on Tuesday night down with 5 minutes.
To lose this GT he has to DNF or "die" on Angliru

 

[Richeypen]

In 2015's Tour when Froome collapsed in the last week he only conceded just under 2 minutes to Quintana across the last 2 mountain stages.

2 GTs on the bounce means that he will obviously fade in the next week however the power meter climbing style means that he is very good at limiting his losses and not blowing up completely. TBH even without the TT I would be confident of him closing this one out.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

In last years' Tour when Froome collapsed in the last week he only conceded just under 2 minutes to Quintana across the last 2 mountain stages.

2 GTs on the bounce means that he will obviously fade in the next week however the power meter climbing style means that he is very good at limiting his losses and not blowing up completely. TBH even without the TT I would be confident of him closing this one out.

Thing is that the "Quintana" in questino is still almost 3 minutes down with an ITT still to come and only 2 mountains to make up that time. My take is that Lopez can drop Froome at will on the Anliru, but unless Froome is so bad he can't follow his domestiques he's never losing the Vuelta.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

In 2015's Tour when Froome collapsed in the last week he only conceded just under 2 minutes to Quintana across the last 2 mountain stages.

2 GTs on the bounce means that he will obviously fade in the next week however the power meter climbing style means that he is very good at limiting his losses and not blowing up completely. TBH even without the TT I would be confident of him closing this one out.

Genuine question here; how do you use a power meter to climb Angliru or Machucos? If you ride to steady power you'll lose minutes because you will lose all inertia on the steepest bits and end up crawling at 7-8km/h. On these kind of climbs surely you have to vary the power throughout to maintain some kind of minimum speed and momentum. You repeatedly have to go over and under threshold and nobody has formulas or a list of watts in their jersey pocket for exactly what they can sustain in those circumstances. Especially so at the end of a three week tour. Which must make blowing up big time a much greater possibility than on your normal 7% or 8% gradients at the Tour.

 

[huge]

Re: Re:

In 2015's Tour when Froome collapsed in the last week he only conceded just under 2 minutes to Quintana across the last 2 mountain stages.

2 GTs on the bounce means that he will obviously fade in the next week however the power meter climbing style means that he is very good at limiting his losses and not blowing up completely. TBH even without the TT I would be confident of him closing this one out.

Genuine question here; how do you use a power meter to climb Angliru or Machucos? If you ride to steady power you'll lose minutes because you will lose all inertia on the steepest bits and end up crawling at 7-8km/h. On these kind of climbs surely you have to vary the power throughout to maintain some kind of minimum speed and momentum. You repeatedly have to go over and under threshold and nobody has formulas or a list of watts in their jersey pocket for exactly what they can sustain in those circumstances. Especially so at the end of a three week tour. Which must make blowing up big time a much greater possibility than on your normal 7% or 8% gradients at the Tour.

I guess Froome knows himself almost to perfection and knows exactly how to use his powermeter data. Even in a situation were keeping a steady pace is very difficult because of the changing road profile.

He will know how much and how long over is too much, controlling his effort accordingly.

But you are definitely right when you say that there are going to be moments where he needs to go into red.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

He's getting weaker weaker weaker...dead dead dead....
but unfortunately this is not so

It's all under control good peace of detractors

He's obviously getting weaker. Equally, he clearly still has the GC under control. But there are weaknesses to be exploited that wasn't possible in the first week or so - when he looked the strongest climber in the race.

The one remaining challenge for him is how he handles the 20%+ gradients of the last week, when he won't be able to lean on his team for any help. We've already seen him spectacularly blow up in the Pyrenees on similar slopes this year.

Think the Angliru will be key, he could lose a packet against Lopez, so he needs to gain time in the ITT.

I don't think Lopez is a serious threat to Froome. There's a TT and then two mountain stages and a 1.5km murito, and I'm not sure if Sky are going to let Lopez have any breathing room any more. Lopez will, barring a miracle time trial, be 5 minutes down.

 

[Inquitus]

Re: Re:

I don't think Lopez is a serious threat to Froome. There's a TT and then two mountain stages and a 1.5km murito, and I'm not sure if Sky are going to let Lopez have any breathing room any more. Lopez will, barring a miracle time trial, be 5 minutes down.

I agree, I see Lopez 5+ minutes behind Froome by the end of Tuesday, which is too much imh to be pulled back, I do think he could perhaps take 2-3 minutes out of Nibali between Weds and Madrid however, and potentially reach the 2nd step on the podium, I think he is all but guaranteed to podium barring a truly disastrous TT however.

 

[Gigs_98]

I have a very hard time finding a scenario in which he loses this Vuelta. It's of course too early to congratulate but let's just say, as long as Nibali, Contador, MAL Chaves don't form the alliance of the century on stage 20 it's looking good for him to write history.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

In 2015's Tour when Froome collapsed in the last week he only conceded just under 2 minutes to Quintana across the last 2 mountain stages.

2 GTs on the bounce means that he will obviously fade in the next week however the power meter climbing style means that he is very good at limiting his losses and not blowing up completely. TBH even without the TT I would be confident of him closing this one out.

Genuine question here; how do you use a power meter to climb Angliru or Machucos? If you ride to steady power you'll lose minutes because you will lose all inertia on the steepest bits and end up crawling at 7-8km/h. On these kind of climbs surely you have to vary the power throughout to maintain some kind of minimum speed and momentum. You repeatedly have to go over and under threshold and nobody has formulas or a list of watts in their jersey pocket for exactly what they can sustain in those circumstances. Especially so at the end of a three week tour. Which must make blowing up big time a much greater possibility than on your normal 7% or 8% gradients at the Tour.

You don't lose minutes.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

In 2015's Tour when Froome collapsed in the last week he only conceded just under 2 minutes to Quintana across the last 2 mountain stages.

2 GTs on the bounce means that he will obviously fade in the next week however the power meter climbing style means that he is very good at limiting his losses and not blowing up completely. TBH even without the TT I would be confident of him closing this one out.

Genuine question here; how do you use a power meter to climb Angliru or Machucos? If you ride to steady power you'll lose minutes because you will lose all inertia on the steepest bits and end up crawling at 7-8km/h. On these kind of climbs surely you have to vary the power throughout to maintain some kind of minimum speed and momentum. You repeatedly have to go over and under threshold and nobody has formulas or a list of watts in their jersey pocket for exactly what they can sustain in those circumstances. Especially so at the end of a three week tour. Which must make blowing up big time a much greater possibility than on your normal 7% or 8% gradients at the Tour.

You don't lose minutes.

Yes you do. If you blow up on Angliru, anyone can lose minutes.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

He's getting weaker weaker weaker...dead dead dead....
but unfortunately this is not so

It's all under control good peace of detractors

He's obviously getting weaker. Equally, he clearly still has the GC under control. But there are weaknesses to be exploited that wasn't possible in the first week or so - when he looked the strongest climber in the race.

The one remaining challenge for him is how he handles the 20%+ gradients of the last week, when he won't be able to lean on his team for any help. We've already seen him spectacularly blow up in the Pyrenees on similar slopes this year.

most likely he'll be a distant second (after lopez) rider, pushing himself up and climbing by powermeter. still referring to the peyragudes collapse, if similar situation replicates itself say 7-8 kilometers from the top of Angliru, he'll fail miserably and lose the race.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

He's getting weaker weaker weaker...dead dead dead....
but unfortunately this is not so

It's all under control good peace of detractors

He's obviously getting weaker. Equally, he clearly still has the GC under control. But there are weaknesses to be exploited that wasn't possible in the first week or so - when he looked the strongest climber in the race.

The one remaining challenge for him is how he handles the 20%+ gradients of the last week, when he won't be able to lean on his team for any help. We've already seen him spectacularly blow up in the Pyrenees on similar slopes this year.

most likely he'll be a distant second (after lopez) rider, pushing himself up and climbing by powermeter. still referring to the peyragudes collapse, if similar situation replicates itself say 7-8 kilometers from the top of Angliru, he'll fail miserably and lose the race.

Exactly, this is what keeps the race just about alive for me at this point. There was nothing in the last week of the Tour that could have allowed him to lose the race - here at least there are two chances where Froome could blow up big time - and relatively early on the climbs.

Still very unlikely of course, because Froome is a fighter and rarely just drops these days; but it's a possibility. Which is enough to create some suspense regarding the outcome for me.

 

[Inquitus]

Re: Re:

He's getting weaker weaker weaker...dead dead dead....
but unfortunately this is not so

It's all under control good peace of detractors

He's obviously getting weaker. Equally, he clearly still has the GC under control. But there are weaknesses to be exploited that wasn't possible in the first week or so - when he looked the strongest climber in the race.

The one remaining challenge for him is how he handles the 20%+ gradients of the last week, when he won't be able to lean on his team for any help. We've already seen him spectacularly blow up in the Pyrenees on similar slopes this year.

most likely he'll be a distant second (after lopez) rider, pushing himself up and climbing by powermeter. still referring to the peyragudes collapse, if similar situation replicates itself say 7-8 kilometers from the top of Angliru, he'll fail miserably and lose the race.

He's gonna have a 5 plus minute lead over Lopez come Weds morning, I don't think he could lose 5 mins on Angliru even if he struggles, he only lost a minute to Quintana on Alpe D'Huez despite being dropped at the very bottom.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

He's getting weaker weaker weaker...dead dead dead....
but unfortunately this is not so

It's all under control good peace of detractors

He's obviously getting weaker. Equally, he clearly still has the GC under control. But there are weaknesses to be exploited that wasn't possible in the first week or so - when he looked the strongest climber in the race.

The one remaining challenge for him is how he handles the 20%+ gradients of the last week, when he won't be able to lean on his team for any help. We've already seen him spectacularly blow up in the Pyrenees on similar slopes this year.

most likely he'll be a distant second (after lopez) rider, pushing himself up and climbing by powermeter. still referring to the peyragudes collapse, if similar situation replicates itself say 7-8 kilometers from the top of Angliru, he'll fail miserably and lose the race.

He's gonna have a 5 plus minute lead over Lopez come Weds morning, I don't think he could lose 5 mins on Angliru even if he struggles, he only lost a minute to Quintana on Alpe D'Huez despite being dropped at the very bottom.

There are two climbs averaging around 8-9% before Angliru, and with some long double figure sections, with no flat in between. If he's having a bad day I think he'll lose the race there. The danger is not only Lopez attacking (who, as you say, will probably be too far back), but that an early Lopez attack could drag Nibali or Zakarin along with him - lighting the race up from far out.