Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

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Is Froome over the hill?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 24 33.8%
  • No, the GC finished 40 minutes ago but Froomie is still climbing it

    Votes: 41 57.7%
  • No he is totally winning the Vuelta

    Votes: 17 23.9%

  • Total voters
    71
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Inquitus said:
dacooley said:
DFA123 said:
Matteo. said:
He's getting weaker weaker weaker...dead dead dead....
but unfortunately this is not so

It's all under control good peace of detractors
He's obviously getting weaker. Equally, he clearly still has the GC under control. But there are weaknesses to be exploited that wasn't possible in the first week or so - when he looked the strongest climber in the race.

The one remaining challenge for him is how he handles the 20%+ gradients of the last week, when he won't be able to lean on his team for any help. We've already seen him spectacularly blow up in the Pyrenees on similar slopes this year.
most likely he'll be a distant second (after lopez) rider, pushing himself up and climbing by powermeter. still referring to the peyragudes collapse, if similar situation replicates itself say 7-8 kilometers from the top of Angliru, he'll fail miserably and lose the race.

He's gonna have a 5 plus minute lead over Lopez come Weds morning, I don't think he could lose 5 mins on Angliru even if he struggles, he only lost a minute to Quintana on Alpe D'Huez despite being dropped at the very bottom.

There are two climbs averaging around 8-9% before Angliru, and with some long double figure sections, with no flat in between. If he's having a bad day I think he'll lose the race there. The danger is not only Lopez attacking (who, as you say, will probably be too far back), but that an early Lopez attack could drag Nibali or Zakarin along with him - lighting the race up from far out.

Lopez seems on a totally different level to the rest though, I very much doubt Nibali could have gone with him today, and it was into a headwind apparently reading what the riders said after the race!
 
Re: Re:

Inquitus said:
Lopez seems on a totally different level to the rest though, I very much doubt Nibali could have gone with him today, and it was into a headwind apparently reading what the riders said after the race!
True, but he will probably try at least, if he's relatively close to Froome going into the final stage. And the attack will only not stick if Froome is feeling fairly strong and can follow his teammates on steepish gradients, or limit losses himself. If he's having a bad day, the team can't help him, and Nibali following Lopez attacking from far - could end up being very dangerous, even if Nibali cant follow Lopez until the line.

Of course, it all depends on Froome having a bad day, which isn't all that likely. But at least the course allows for a bad day to be suitably punished, unlike in the Tour for example, where his team could bail him out entirely if he wasn't feeling great.
 
Sky and their conservative way of riding keep people having to dream of riders launching suicide long-range attacks way too much. in reality this kind of moves succeeds really rarely. froome will win this race at 95% probability, however completely ruling out him cracking on angliru would've been premature. afterall, it's his second consecutive grand tour, hence body сan give a very ill-favored sensation pretty much at any point.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Inquitus said:
Lopez seems on a totally different level to the rest though, I very much doubt Nibali could have gone with him today, and it was into a headwind apparently reading what the riders said after the race!
True, but he will probably try at least, if he's relatively close to Froome going into the final stage. And the attack will only not stick if Froome is feeling fairly strong and can follow his teammates on steepish gradients, or limit losses himself. If he's having a bad day, the team can't help him, and Nibali following Lopez attacking from far - could end up being very dangerous, even if Nibali cant follow Lopez until the line.

Of course, it all depends on Froome having a bad day, which isn't all that likely. But at least the course allows for a bad day to be suitably punished, unlike in the Tour for example, where his team could bail him out entirely if he wasn't feeling great.

Agree totally, the TDF Parcours was just shameful in its lack of ambition, with Froome's good opening day TT he was never in a position at any point where he knew he was not easily able to regain the lead in the ITT on the penultimate stage, that led to him riding defensively behind his train on stages where it was impossible for his rivals to attempt to put serious time into him. Though the press tried to hype it up as being the closest GC ever, it in reality was anything but!
 
Sep 3, 2017
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i think that is fairly to say that if Froome wins the vuelta espana he will have a better gt palmares than Contador , inferior only to cannibal , hinualt , big mig , Anquetil , i'm not a sky or froome fan but that is reality , BUT maybe Froome will lose la vuelta , i 'm very impatient to see if Froome will fade or not , logic would be that Nibali could beat him if like slongo said he is on an upward curve of form , i really hope , a lot of people seem tired of sky dominance
 
I wonder if Froome has gotten worse, using the minimum amount of effort or is worse at longer climbs. Combination?

Either way I really, really don't enjoy watching him. It effectively kills the racing that he has the best team in the world behind him and he rides the climbs the way he does, really only goes deep the last 5-10 minutes. That means attacks and initiatives are postponed till the very as you are just about certain that Sky and Froome will choo-choo their way back unless your are Lopez. Ugh.. can't deny the effectiveness tho.
 
Re:

Valv.Piti said:
I wonder if Froome has gotten worse, using the minimum amount of effort or is worse at longer climbs. Combination?

Either way I really, really don't enjoy watching him. It effectively kills the racing that he has the best team in the world behind him and he rides the climbs the way he does, really only goes deep the last 5-10 minutes. That means attacks and initiatives are postponed till the very as you are just about certain that Sky and Froome will choo-choo their way back unless your are Lopez. Ugh.. can't deny the effectiveness tho.
Both. Froome is clearly fading, and probably in slight decline as well at this point. He's been very lucky with the headwind the last 3 mountain stages
 
Re:

Valv.Piti said:
I wonder if Froome has gotten worse, using the minimum amount of effort or is worse at longer climbs. Combination?

Either way I really, really don't enjoy watching him. It effectively kills the racing that he has the best team in the world behind him and he rides the climbs the way he does, really only goes deep the last 5-10 minutes. That means attacks and initiatives are postponed till the very as you are just about certain that Sky and Froome will choo-choo their way back unless your are Lopez. Ugh.. can't deny the effectiveness tho.

it is not his fault if his opponents are weak. After all is almost always so when there is a ruler
the old contador or nibal 2013-2014 nibali would have given him a break. but they are not anymore ....
Maybe also the best froome is done
 
Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
Valv.Piti said:
I wonder if Froome has gotten worse, using the minimum amount of effort or is worse at longer climbs. Combination?

Either way I really, really don't enjoy watching him. It effectively kills the racing that he has the best team in the world behind him and he rides the climbs the way he does, really only goes deep the last 5-10 minutes. That means attacks and initiatives are postponed till the very as you are just about certain that Sky and Froome will choo-choo their way back unless your are Lopez. Ugh.. can't deny the effectiveness tho.
Both. Froome is clearly fading, and probably in slight decline as well at this point. He's been very lucky with the headwind the last 3 mountain stages

I don't know, he won the TDF at a canter and looks like following it up with a rare consecutive GT double. Hard to know whether he is beginning to age when he's not put under any pressure forcing him to display his full hand.
 
Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
Valv.Piti said:
I wonder if Froome has gotten worse, using the minimum amount of effort or is worse at longer climbs. Combination?

Either way I really, really don't enjoy watching him. It effectively kills the racing that he has the best team in the world behind him and he rides the climbs the way he does, really only goes deep the last 5-10 minutes. That means attacks and initiatives are postponed till the very as you are just about certain that Sky and Froome will choo-choo their way back unless your are Lopez. Ugh.. can't deny the effectiveness tho.
Both. Froome is clearly fading, and probably in slight decline as well at this point. He's been very lucky with the headwind the last 3 mountain stages

Yeah really really lucky. :rolleyes:
You are not fair, do not be angry red :p
 
Sep 3, 2017
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i have to say that we made critic for Nibali that he wins gt against weak opposition , but if you look at Froome , he wins against a
1)23 years old Quintana
2)25 years old Quintana , but i think that Nairo would have beaten him if not for Valverde who wnated the podium and Movistar the team classification
3) Bardet who i think will never win a grand tour , he is overrated as for Landa not Quintana
4)Rigoberto Uran , are you kidding me ,please
BUT if Froome wins this against Nibali who is fresher and prepare with more than just 26 days later of a 41 KM/H tour de france , one of the fastest ever , THAN he will be the best GC rider of pre 1990 riders
 
Re: Re:

Matteo. said:
Valv.Piti said:
I wonder if Froome has gotten worse, using the minimum amount of effort or is worse at longer climbs. Combination?

Either way I really, really don't enjoy watching him. It effectively kills the racing that he has the best team in the world behind him and he rides the climbs the way he does, really only goes deep the last 5-10 minutes. That means attacks and initiatives are postponed till the very as you are just about certain that Sky and Froome will choo-choo their way back unless your are Lopez. Ugh.. can't deny the effectiveness tho.

it is not his fault if his opponents are weak. After all is almost always so when there is a ruler
the old contador or nibal 2013-2014 nibali would have given him a break. but they are not anymore ....
Maybe also the best froome is done

Exactly.
If anything kills this Vuelta this is weakness of Froome and Sky opponents.
Today we received the Proof of it and its name is Lopez. Suddenly it turned out that it had been possible to beat Froome almost by 1 minute. So it is possible to crush choo-choo, train, Skyborgs and so on. Even if Lopez had been without such losses, Sky (unfortunately, of course!) wouldn't had been able to do anything. Lopez would beat Froome in two-man battle.
In Giro2017 we had strong domestiques of Quintana. Their tactics was the same as Sky - that's obvious, cycling is not very sophisticated discipline. And of course it was very enjoying to watch how one man could beat Movistar.
And probably if we replaced Landa or Thomas by Froome - even then Dumoulin would had win Giro.
 
Sep 3, 2017
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We are in front of the greatest gc rider of the last 20 years , if he wins la vuelta , i hope he will not win for biology sake , but who knows Froome biology is sort of alien
 
Jul 14, 2015
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Re:

Valv.Piti said:
I wonder if Froome has gotten worse, using the minimum amount of effort or is worse at longer climbs. Combination?

Either way I really, really don't enjoy watching him. It effectively kills the racing that he has the best team in the world behind him and he rides the climbs the way he does, really only goes deep the last 5-10 minutes. That means attacks and initiatives are postponed till the very as you are just about certain that Sky and Froome will choo-choo their way back unless your are Lopez. Ugh.. can't deny the effectiveness tho.

So much crying here. Back then people were very content with riders pulling out a lead in the TT then defending in the mountains. Now Froome crushes them in the mountains and still delivers the final blow in the TT and what does he get? Exponentially more crying!

Can't make any sense of it.
 
Re: Re:

hazaran said:
Valv.Piti said:
I wonder if Froome has gotten worse, using the minimum amount of effort or is worse at longer climbs. Combination?

Either way I really, really don't enjoy watching him. It effectively kills the racing that he has the best team in the world behind him and he rides the climbs the way he does, really only goes deep the last 5-10 minutes. That means attacks and initiatives are postponed till the very as you are just about certain that Sky and Froome will choo-choo their way back unless your are Lopez. Ugh.. can't deny the effectiveness tho.

So much crying here. Back then people were very content with riders pulling out a lead in the TT then defending in the mountains. Now Froome crushes them in the mountains and still delivers the final blow in the TT and what does he get? Exponentially more crying!

Can't make any sense of it.

I think his tears are due to Astana backing Aru and not Lopez meaning the latter was a few minutes down when the real high mountain racing started, blame Astana or Aru, you can't blame Froome for Astana getting it wrong!
 
Re: Re:

hazaran said:
Valv.Piti said:
I wonder if Froome has gotten worse, using the minimum amount of effort or is worse at longer climbs. Combination?

Either way I really, really don't enjoy watching him. It effectively kills the racing that he has the best team in the world behind him and he rides the climbs the way he does, really only goes deep the last 5-10 minutes. That means attacks and initiatives are postponed till the very as you are just about certain that Sky and Froome will choo-choo their way back unless your are Lopez. Ugh.. can't deny the effectiveness tho.

So much crying here. Back then people were very content with riders pulling out a lead in the TT then defending in the mountains. Now Froome crushes them in the mountains and still delivers the final blow in the TT and what does he get? Exponentially more crying!

Can't make any sense of it.
Im not talking about this Vuelta, it was the same exact thing when we watched the mountain stages in this year's Tour, same scheme as in 16 as well. It just gets boring. Basically, as long as Froome isn't on the offensive (which he was in the first week of this Vuelta but wasn't at any state really in the Tour both those years Im referring to) the mountain stages for the most part are piss poor. Its almost impossible to gain time on Froome with the team he has available, the riders get intimated and understandably so.

Froome would be A LOT more likeable if he was riding on an inferior team, but its just hard to enjoy watching him and Sky do this over and over again.
 
Re: Re:

hazaran said:
Valv.Piti said:
I wonder if Froome has gotten worse, using the minimum amount of effort or is worse at longer climbs. Combination?

Either way I really, really don't enjoy watching him. It effectively kills the racing that he has the best team in the world behind him and he rides the climbs the way he does, really only goes deep the last 5-10 minutes. That means attacks and initiatives are postponed till the very as you are just about certain that Sky and Froome will choo-choo their way back unless your are Lopez. Ugh.. can't deny the effectiveness tho.

So much crying here. Back then people were very content with riders pulling out a lead in the TT then defending in the mountains. Now Froome crushes them in the mountains and still delivers the final blow in the TT and what does he get? Exponentially more crying!

Can't make any sense of it.
It makes perfect sense, what are you talking about? Most people don't like domination from anyone, in any sport, because it is boring. Nibali 2014? Dull. Froome 2013? Dull. Froome 2016/2017? Dull. Mercedes in F1 from 2014-2016? Dull. The serie a title fight from 2011 onwards? Dull. Wiggins 2012? Dull. People watch sport to be entertained, and I hate to break it to you, but for most people Froome and Sky dominating every race they enter isn't entertaining. It's extremely simple.
 
Re: Re:

Matteo. said:
Red Rick said:
Valv.Piti said:
I wonder if Froome has gotten worse, using the minimum amount of effort or is worse at longer climbs. Combination?

Either way I really, really don't enjoy watching him. It effectively kills the racing that he has the best team in the world behind him and he rides the climbs the way he does, really only goes deep the last 5-10 minutes. That means attacks and initiatives are postponed till the very as you are just about certain that Sky and Froome will choo-choo their way back unless your are Lopez. Ugh.. can't deny the effectiveness tho.
Both. Froome is clearly fading, and probably in slight decline as well at this point. He's been very lucky with the headwind the last 3 mountain stages

Yeah really really lucky. :rolleyes:
You are not fair, do not be angry red :p

There is little doubt that Froome is not the rider he was but still good enough to win grand tours by riding more conservatively and relying on his superior TT which really is what Dumoulin did in the Giro as well except on one mountain stage where he got away in the last km on a course that suited him. Dumoulin just does it without a strong team and his TT experience and ability make him very good at pacing himself. Although his team is probably no worse than some of the teams that Cadel Evans and others have had while riding GTs.

Where is the Froome that wins mountain stages or even dominates them ? That one is gone forever as the last two GTs have shown so now he rides more like Wiggins re 2012 Tour than the Froome of old. But it's noticeable that he isn't the only one who has declined. Nibali also. It's obviously not a Contador type decline for Froome but it's definitely more than a slight one. The injuries from his crashes don't seem to have played much of a role in the Vuelta so far. And I think Froome is doing a fair amount of bluffing re how much he is holding back which is part of the tactics anyway. Nibali hit the nail on the head a few days ago when he mentioned Froome being isolated and how different he rides when he is. Nibali knows it's not A grade Froome he is competing against but seems unable to do much about it at this stage of the race because of his own form.
 
Kind of unfortunate for Team SKY clothing partner Castelli
that the Top Dawg will once again be required to wear the
supplied race-leaders skin-suit on Tuesday instead of the
Castelli 4.0 Speedsuit that served Super G and Froomey
so very well at the Tour in Dusseldorf on July the first. :(
 
Sep 3, 2017
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i really don't know what to expect in these last 5 stage for froome really till now he has the best grand tour season from Pantani , so it's on the verge to become the best GC rider since Indurain , i think he is even better than indurain because , if you think Indurain won just for the rigged parcours with ton of km in tt so i think that Froome , if he will not have clinic issue , he will be the 4TH BEST GC RIDER OF ALL TIME behind cannibal , Hinault , Anquetil , so one only word is necessary ET
 
Sep 3, 2017
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Re:

spalco said:
^^
He definitely needs a fifth Tour for that comparison, whether he wins this race or not, and most people would argue he needs the Giro as well.
no ,no because if he wins la vuelta he will be the only rider to win consecutive grand tour since pantani , and as i said the wins tour de france with a parcour that is not rigged like the indurain ones , he will be 4 best gc rider ever
 
Sep 3, 2017
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but have to admit that without his team sky Froome will be a domestique as his own words , so putting that in consideration Contador is mile superior to him , but for stats Froome will be better , i don't like it but for stats that is ,