Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[Angliru]

Sigh, not again.

The only reason froome worked for wiggins was because big promises were made. promises wiggins admits too, that next year Froome had leadership guaranteed.

Moreover everything wiggins has ever said suggests he has no intention of contesting next years Tour. Not only before when he said 1 tdf was enough for him, and that he might retire if he won it, but even after when he said he would work for Froome next year, and that he doesnt really want to go through it all again.

But every day, someone else comes on and declares, with absolutely no back up, that wiggins will lead the best team in the TDF next year, even though its clear he has no chance, and froome has a big one.

All I recall reading is Wiggins saying he will ride for Froome "in the future" which is pretty noncommital leaving it open for Wiggins to defend his Tour win in 2013. Was there a quote or a link that you read that says otherwise?

 

[Angliru]

What, just one HC climb and you think Wiggo will be toast ?! In 2009 he wasn't half the GT racer he's become and Bertie and Schlekett were at their best and he wasn't that far in the end was he?

Anyway back to Froome, I really hope he gets over the ITT disappointment but it's not looking too good I'm afraid, he's going to have to get back to basics and race with his head with the help of Uran and Henao like he did on that first climb, not try to kill everyone and then put in a little attack.

Will he return to the Tour with the same dedication to his training routine and proper motivation? The willingness to sacrifice and commit to doing it again? For someone that loves the limelight I can't see him returning with the same form. The Tour won't be the breeze to the top step in Paris that it was this year what with Contador, Andy Schleck, Sammy Sanchez and others returning to make the competition quite a step above what he faced this year. Plus Froome isn't likely to once again play lapdog and pick up the scraps that are thrown his way.

 

[The Hitch]

What, just one HC climb and you think Wiggo will be toast ?! In 2009 he wasn't half the GT racer he's become and Bertie and Schlekett were at their best and he wasn't that far in the end was he?

Wasnt he like 6 minutes behind Contador? And thats considering that Contador was going pretty easy after taking the yellow, and even before, as he knew all he had to do was beat Schleck/ Armstrong.

Ventoux for example was softpeddaled, as if Contador couldnt get some more tme on something like that if he wanted, same with Schleck. And le Grand Bornard, could have gone faster there too if they wanted. Some pyraneen stages too.

 

[The Hitch]

Not having a pop at you, just using this comment as an example of a wider trope I often see - which is comments like this about people 'changing their minds', and often in a fairly critical manner, as if it's some sign of weakness. I always wonder why the criticism? What does it matter if someone changes their mind about something, especially something as transitory of what race you might fancy entering next year?

Anyway, not having a pop at the Hitch here (don't even know if you mean this critically or not), just a genuine question as to why changing your mind is generally seen as a negative.

Oh i agree, changing your opinion on something can be a quality.Being able to remove yourself from early biases is something to be respected and looking at things objectively, important.

But with Wiggins he just answers "yes" in some interviews, then "no" in others, and often "yes" again in the next one.

 

[johnnycash]

The Vuelta is obviously turning out to be a great grand tour, but i'm not sure whether all the top four are super-strong, or just not that great and that is what is making such a great race.

It would be interesting to see how quick they are getting up the climbs compared to say last year, which was probably quite a weak Vuelta in comparison.

Can't help but think AC should be showing a clean pair of heels to Valv, as should Froome. Was Froome's ITT anywhere near his TdF level? I'm not sure.

 

[Jelantik]

Wiggins can be at the 100th celebration of the tour. He can be at the 150th celebration of the tour. Doesnt mean anything, he cant beat Contador in a gt or Schleck in a gt with a hc climb. So what exactly are you suggesting Prudhomme is going to do, i dont quite get it.

I think what it means, is the impact of wiggins on the anglo audience. If you read news after the TDF, it was said that wiggins won the TDF brought a lot of exposure to the anglo countries. So for marketing stand point I think that probably why Prudhomme wants wiggin back as defending champ. Whether he is going to get his *** kicked around the block by AC or AS, that's another story.

 

[Publicus]

I think the Vroom! has gone out of Froome's legs. Contador looks like he's about to come into his own now....

 

[Carols]

Why not? If contador or Schleck were at the Tour this year, I believe Wiggins would have beaten them both. He smoked Valverde and Rodriquez.

Valverde crashed and Rodriquez did not ride the Tour....

 

[Carols]

I think the Vroom! has gone out of Froome's legs. Contador looks like he's about to come into his own now....

Yes I think you are correct. However there are still heavy mountain stages to come where Froome can ride his own race. If any of the others falter and Contador hasn't reached the point where he can accelerate and hold/extend the advantage gained Froome can still have an impact. But I think he is tiring, winning doesn't look promising; podium still possible. That would be a great achievement on two back to back GTs!

 

[Angliru]

The Vuelta is obviously turning out to be a great grand tour, but i'm not sure whether all the top four are super-strong, or just not that great and that is what is making such a great race.

It would be interesting to see how quick they are getting up the climbs compared to say last year, which was probably quite a weak Vuelta in comparison.

Can't help but think AC should be showing a clean pair of heels to Valv, as should Froome. Was Froome's ITT anywhere near his TdF level? I'm not sure.

Recent history has shown that riders coming back from 2 year suspensions take a year to get back to their pre-suspension levels, if they ever do at all. Valverde seems to rounding into form and has shown an improvement over his Tour level but we haven't hit the longer climbs yet so it remains to be seen if he's all the way back yet.

I can't commit to saying that Froome is showing fatigue because it's hard to pinpoint his seeming drop in stage results with the parcours of these relatively short steep finishes and the technical nature of the previous ITT being equally responsible.

Now Contador seems to be gaining form. He's no longer losing any time to Froome and Valverde on the finishes, actually dropping them and he's keeping Purito within a reasonable distance until the real mountains arrive. I think he just showed Froome and Valverde a clean pair of wheels on today's stage. Froome may be able to do the same to Valverde or vice versa depending on which way each of their forms go in the up coming stages. I'm thinking Valverde is getting back to his peak level and may give Froome a bit of trouble and knock him off the podium.

 

[The Hitch]

I think what it means, is the impact of wiggins on the anglo audience. If you read news after the TDF, it was said that wiggins won the TDF brought a lot of exposure to the anglo countries. So for marketing stand point I think that probably why Prudhomme wants wiggin back as defending champ. Whether he is going to get his *** kicked around the block by AC or AS, that's another story.

It brought exposure to britain. Saying it brought exposure to anglo countries is ridiculous. Australians cared far more about Cadel winning the tour, you know, a year ago, and most Americans didnt even know that Landis won the tour in 06.

So which countries have now gone bycicle mad because a brit won the tour? Jamaica? Canada? South Africa?

 

[hfer07]

looking at the recent performances of Froome- I do believe he finds himself in trouble during the sharp climbs when the slope is above 15% - The Angliru, La Gallina & today's at the mirador de Ezaro proved this observation.

Of course- the opposite is that he thrives at ease on the TDF Cols where the gradients are average all the way....

 

[webvan]

I for one am a bit surprised, he looked ok on the 20+ at the of PDBF? Not too bad on the Angliru last year too, but of course that was compared to Cobo...

He certainly cut his losses in the last part today, that gives me some hope for Saturday.

 

[webbie146]

looking at the recent performances of Froome- I do believe he finds himself in trouble during the sharp climbs when the slope is above 15% - The Angliru, La Gallina & today's at the mirador de Ezaro proved this observation.

Of course- the opposite is that he thrives at ease on the TDF Cols where the gradients are average all the way....

When he is not in top form he seems to struggle indeed. When he's in top form I think he can do it. Last year in the vuelta put in a great attack on a 20% slope. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5GxKr1XLtk

 

[Jelantik]

So which countries have now gone bycicle mad because a brit won the tour? Jamaica? Canada? South Africa?

Oops… my bad for making generalization. Maybe what it means is good for "Britain". Wiggin TDF win and Evan are considered by the news as good for exposure. (to what?) well at least to their own country and marketing ($$) for other reason. So for that reason yes, I think Prudhomme will want Wiggin to be at next year TDF.

 

[ferryman]

Only person on the planet capable of beating Wiggins in this years Tour is Contador. Even then with Wiggins TT form, a super strong team and weak mountain stages I doubt Contador would have made up enough time to take it from him.

Serious question. Have you and the rest of the Sky apologists on here got together in some sort of secret club to consistently post this crap.

 

[Moviefan1203]

Oops… my bad for making generalization. Maybe what it means is good for "Britain". Wiggin TDF win and Evan are considered by the news as good for exposure. (to what?) well at least to their own country and marketing ($$) for other reason. So for that reason yes, I think Prudhomme will want Wiggin to be at next year TDF.

It's good for cycling when Anglophones win GT's. It ups the exposure to the big money markets.

 

[Jelantik]

Only person on the planet capable of beating Wiggins in this years Tour is Contador. Even then with Wiggins TT form, a super strong team and weak mountain stages I doubt Contador would have made up enough time to take it from him.

Well, as much as I like contador, I guess this is only can go as far as "if" since contador wasn't even in this year TDF. If we are talking about next year TDF then we will have looooong discussion, prediction, argument, pool, analysis… etc, etc.

 

[movingtarget]

looking at the recent performances of Froome- I do believe he finds himself in trouble during the sharp climbs when the slope is above 15% - The Angliru, La Gallina & today's at the mirador de Ezaro proved this observation.

Of course- the opposite is that he thrives at ease on the TDF Cols where the gradients are average all the way....

To me Froome looks tired. Don't underestimate how hard he worked in the Tour and we know how hard it is to back up and ride a second grand tour. Giro Vuelta is hard enough but Tour Vuelta does not leave much time for recuperation between races. If Froome can podium I think he has done well.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Froome does look tired. In particular his ITT looked really laboured to me. One factor is certainly the TdF and Olympics, although he's had a shortened season to a period off after an attack of Bilharzia early in the year.

Also I feel Sky went into both the Giro and TdF with a clear game plan and a long period of preperation for both. The Giro team was built around Cav's tilt for points and the TdF, well we know about that. The Vuelta team looks like one cobbled together as a bit of an afterthought and I think the tactics have been found wanting: a long sprint lead-out on the stage ending on the race track looked gung ho at the time, esp with Froome doing multiple turns on the front. The next day he burnt up his domestiques chasing down the breakway when he could have left it to Katusha, and ended up being isolated by the 3 spaniards at the sharp end of the climb and eventually dropped. In Henao and Uran he has climbers that should be able to climb with the elite and I think he needs to use them better.

So fatigue and poor tactics are letting him down at the moment IMO. He's never been a team leader at a GT with Sky before and perhaps the inexperience is showing. I think he needs to ride more conservatively, forget about sprint stages (which they seem to have done) and use his foot soldiers better on the climbs. He's still third and there is a lot of racing to come

 

[webvan]

All good points, poor tactics so far (but no real surprise if he's calling the shots based on his antics on Toussuire and Peyragudes) and with Uran and Henao he's got the best support of the four in the mountains. There's no reason either of them, even both, can't stay with the best on the three mountain stages.

 

[JimmyFingers]

All good points, poor tactics so far (but no real surprise if he's calling the shots based on his antics on Toussuire and Peyragudes) and with Uran and Henao he's got the best support of the four in the mountains. There's no reason either of them, even both, can't stay with the best on the three mountain stages.

Henao and Uran were at the sharp end of most of the climbs in the Giro, where they seemed to be given carte blanche to ride as they see fit, Sky's wildcards for the GC while the rest of the team looked after Cav. Here they are being deployed like 'The Creeping Death' as a friend called Sky's tactics in the TdF, being used to force the pace on the early parts of the climb. It's not working because it's not neutering the attacks of the top boys later on in the climbs. They just sit there, waiting for the Sky train to burn out then attack Froome when he's isolated.

 

[webvan]

Well it worked at Jaca...and it might work on the upcoming real mountain stages, so far it's been mountain sprints really, not good for endurance/real climbers. I guess they could give it another shot on Saturday and based on the result do it again on Sunday or just wait it out by letting Saxo (well Navarro I guess) do the work and stick together.

 

[movingtarget]

Henao and Uran were at the sharp end of most of the climbs in the Giro, where they seemed to be given carte blanche to ride as they see fit, Sky's wildcards for the GC while the rest of the team looked after Cav. Here they are being deployed like 'The Creeping Death' as a friend called Sky's tactics in the TdF, being used to force the pace on the early parts of the climb. It's not working because it's not neutering the attacks of the top boys later on in the climbs. They just sit there, waiting for the Sky train to burn out then attack Froome when he's isolated.

Uran has not had an easy race so far. Froome should just follow and then make decisions. He said in an interview today that depending on how his legs felt he would take any opportunities available. He should have been doing that from the start instead of trying to copy the Tour tactics. Okay for robots but not for riders that have just ridden a hard three week tour plus other races. Maybe they thought they could catch Contador off guard in the first week and he did look below his best but it backfired on Sky. Probably a gamble that did not have to be taken so early in the race.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Uran has not had an easy race so far. Froome should just follow and then make decisions. He said in an interview today that depending on how his legs felt he would take any opportunities available. He should have been doing that from the start instead of trying to copy the Tour tactics. Okay for robots but not for riders that have just ridden a hard three week tour plus other races. Maybe they thought they could catch Contador off guard in the first week and he did look below his best but it backfired on Sky. Probably a gamble that did not have to be taken so early in the race.

Agreed: trying to make the Tour tactic work her with little preperation and the set of riders they have was a mistake. They need to throw off those shackles and go at it old school, for want of a better expression