Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[Parker]

You should read his book. That he made it out of Africa and became a pro is nothing short of a miracle.

To get to Salzburg (the city the worlds we speak of were located in), he abused the login details of the incompetent head of the Kenyan National Cycling Federation to enroll himself to the start list of the championships, and then he went to Europe all alone and entered the meeting of the national coaches soaking wet (because he had had to ride there in the rain, and was his nation's team leader given he was there alone) with his bike, after which the South African national delegation took pity on him and let him have a bed at their hotel for the remainder of the stay.

This is something his detractors always miss. They go on about how the greats always show their talent early. But in reality if they'd had Froome's background, they'd most likely have been bike mechanics or farmers.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Finally, I, Froome supporter since early on (well, early like Vuelta 2011, not before obviously) can join the rest of the forum fully hating on Ineos too.

One of the best posts I have seen.

 

[bigcog]

I'm a Froome fan from 2011 as well rather than Ineos/Sky fan, so this will be interesting to say the least. Sky's other GT wins did little for me, although I've soft spot for some of their other ex and current riders such as Stannard, Nieve, Kwiato etc. I wonder if any of the other riders at Ineos will leave with him. If he manages to win another TDF with either team, it will be some achievement. In saying that I am not convinced we will actually get any GT's this year.

 

[SHAD0W93]

This is something his detractors always miss. They go on about how the greats always show their talent early. But in reality if they'd had Froome's background, they'd most likely have been bike mechanics or farmers.

If you want something you work towards it, through adversity. Froome absolutely wanted to be a pro and he achieved it. Through all the bad country hardships and naysayers he did it and proved them wrong.

 

[Merckx index]

This is something his detractors always miss. They go on about how the greats always show their talent early. But in reality if they'd had Froome's background, they'd most likely have been bike mechanics or farmers.

If they'd shown the talent Froome had shown prior to the 2011 Vuelta, then yes, they might have been mechanics or farmers. Froome had five years as a pro to show the talent that "the greats always show".

 

[jaylew]

Finally, I, Froome supporter since early on (well, early like Vuelta 2011, not before obviously) can join the rest of the forum fully hating on Ineos too.

But now there's much less reason to hate them

 

[Bolder]

Froome is a great GT rider, maybe the best in the modern era of specialization. He's won all 3, sometimes with panache, sometimes without, but he's always raced to win. The "strong team" argument is always going to be a bit of a chicken/egg thing.

I'm definitely excited to see what he has left. I saw zero dropoff in 2018; in fact it might have been his best year ever and he came very close to doing the Giro/Tour double; without Thomas he probably almost certainly would have -- I think Sky would have found a way to break Dumoulin eventually if they were working for Froome.

I really think given his high standards that if he wasn't back to the point where he could contend for the TdF he probably would have announced his retirement.

We don't know his ICF contract but I suspect it's loaded with performance clauses...but Valverde continues to race at the highest level and Froome got a bit of a late start so he has less racing in his legs than you might think.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't harbor any hard feelings toward Brailsford. Froome knows better than most what it's like to see the future riding alongside you in the same team kit...

 

[RedheadDane]

You should read his book. That he made it out of Africa and became a pro is nothing short of a miracle.

To get to Salzburg (the city the worlds we speak of were located in), he abused the login details of the incompetent head of the Kenyan National Cycling Federation to enroll himself to the start list of the championships, and then he went to Europe all alone and entered the meeting of the national coaches soaking wet (because he had had to ride there in the rain, and was his nation's team leader given he was there alone) with his bike, after which the South African national delegation took pity on him and let him have a bed at their hotel for the remainder of the stay.

Just imagine someone from the Kenyan National Cycling Federation watching that race; "Uhm... hang on... did we? What?"

And a non-cycling related story I love from his early years, is how he (ab)used his status as prefect on a boarding school he was attending to smuggle in cigarettes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the job of a prefect to prevent bad behaviour, not... enabling it?

 

[Koronin]

Froome is a great GT rider, maybe the best in the modern era of specialization. He's won all 3, sometimes with panache, sometimes without, but he's always raced to win. The "strong team" argument is always going to be a bit of a chicken/egg thing.

I'm definitely excited to see what he has left. I saw zero dropoff in 2018; in fact it might have been his best year ever and he came very close to doing the Giro/Tour double; without Thomas he probably almost certainly would have -- I think Sky would have found a way to break Dumoulin eventually if they were working for Froome.

I really think given his high standards that if he wasn't back to the point where he could contend for the TdF he probably would have announced his retirement.

We don't know his ICF contract but I suspect it's loaded with performance clauses...but Valverde continues to race at the highest level and Froome got a bit of a late start so he has less racing in his legs than you might think.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't harbor any hard feelings toward Brailsford. Froome knows better than most what it's like to see the future riding alongside you in the same team kit...

Sorry but Contador is the best GT specialist of the modern era. Contador won Grand Tours without a team let alone a strong team.

You can't compare Froome to Valverde. Valverde is an outlier to start with, dominated his age group until moving up to adult amateur and pro ranks and still in certain types of racing has been dominate. Valverde won over 50 consecutive races as a child and thoughout his entire career has been one of the most consistent riders year round. Froome had a severe injury in his 30's that NO ONE has ever recovered from to a level they were previously and that includes riders in their 20's. Valverde's injury in his 30's is an injury many, many, many riders at all levels have had and fully recovered to previous levels from. Brailsford never offered Froome a new contract. Valverde is a very different type of rider. Valverde is not a specialist. Froome brags about his 8 hour training rides, while Valverde rarely does a training ride that is over 3 and a half hours and many times does 2 hour training rides.

 

[Rui Machado]

Sorry but Contador is the best GT specialist of the modern era. Contador won Grand Tours without a team let alone a strong team.

You can't compare Froome to Valverde. Valverde is an outlier to start with, dominated his age group until moving up to adult amateur and pro ranks and still in certain types of racing has been dominate. Valverde won over 50 consecutive races as a child and thoughout his entire career has been one of the most consistent riders year round. Froome had a severe injury in his 30's that NO ONE has ever recovered from to a level they were previously and that includes riders in their 20's. Valverde's injury in his 30's is an injury many, many, many riders at all levels have had and fully recovered to previous levels from. Brailsford never offered Froome a new contract. Valverde is a very different type of rider. Valverde is not a specialist. Froome brags about his 8 hour training rides, while Valverde rarely does a training ride that is over 3 and a half hours and many times does 2 hour training rides.

Contador won tours without a team?! Are you kidding me? Zubeldia, popovych, kloden, leipheimer and paulinho in the tour 2009.....seriously? And i don t need to remember tour de france 2013 when contador couldn t follow froome and saxo bank had better team than sky in that year. Kreuziger, rodgers, jesus hernandez, froome just had richie porte in the tour 2013 to help him. Giro 2008 and Vuelta 2008, contador had again leipheimer, paulinho,kloden.
Maybe contador won 2 or 3 tours without a team, but also froome won some tours without team. Vuelta 2011, giro 2018 he won attacking at 80 km, he didn t need of team to do that, tour 2013, he won attacking om ax 3 domaines, ventoux and in the itts, he just had like i said richie porte sometimes.

 

[Parker]

Sorry but Contador is the best GT specialist of the modern era. Contador won Grand Tours without a team let alone a strong team.

The 2010 Astana Tour team was so weak he insisted on taking three of them to Saxo Bank with him. There he had to fill out the team with rubbish like Chris Anker Sorensen and Richie Porte.

 

[Koronin]

Contador won tours without a team?! Are you kidding me? Zubeldia, popovych, kloden, leipheimer and paulinho in the tour 2009.....seriously? And i don t need to remember tour de france 2013 when contador couldn t follow froome and saxo bank had better team than sky in that year. Kreuziger, rodgers, jesus hernandez, froome just had richie porte in the tour 2013 to help him. Giro 2008 and Vuelta 2008, contador had again leipheimer, paulinho,kloden.
Maybe contador won 2 or 3 tours without a team, but also froome won some tours without team. Vuelta 2011, giro 2018 he won attacking at 80 km, he didn t need of team to do that, tour 2013, he won attacking om ax 3 domaines, ventoux and in the itts, he just had like i said richie porte sometimes.

2009 the team was riding for Lance. 2015 Giro the team was just not capable of supporting him. How about you look actually look at what riders have actually done.
That 2009 team would have proven to be even more dysfunctional than the last two year's Movistar's teams.
2018 Giro team Froome HAD a very good team, he caused his own problems there. Try again. 2011 he was supporting Wiggins and they DID have a team.

 

[Koronin]

The 2010 Astana Tour team was so weak he insisted on taking three of them to Saxo Bank with him. There he had to fill out the team with rubbish like Chris Anker Sorensen and Richie Porte.

2009 team rode for Lance NOT Contador.

 

[SHAD0W93]

The 2010 Astana Tour team was so weak he insisted on taking three of them to Saxo Bank with him. There he had to fill out the team with rubbish like Chris Anker Sorensen and Richie Porte.

Weren't those 3 riders Spanish and his BFFs? Porte has said he was able to do absolutely nothing for Contador who didn't become LRP until he went to Sky.

 

[Parker]

Weren't those 3 riders Spanish and his BFFs? Porte has said he was able to do absolutely nothing for Contador who didn't become LRP until he went to Sky.

They may have been his mates, but it was his choice to have them there. Nibali, Quintana and Sagan all have their brothers on their team, but they don't pick them for the Tour. Contador obviously valued them. Porte had come seventh in the Giro the year before. Contador had him pulling on the flats.

Froome had a better team largely because he's a better leader.

 

[Koronin]

Weren't those 3 riders Spanish and his BFFs? Porte has said he was able to do absolutely nothing for Contador who didn't become LRP until he went to Sky.

Yes they were. One being Hernandez who was also his road captain.

 

[Parker]

2009 the team was riding for Lance. 2015 Giro the team was just not capable of supporting him. How about you look actually look at what riders have actually done.
That 2009 team would have proven to be even more dysfunctional than the last two year's Movistar's teams.
2018 Giro team Froome HAD a very good team, he caused his own problems there. Try again. 2011 he was supporting Wiggins and they DID have a team.

His 2015 Giro team: Rogers, Kreuziger, Basso, CJ Jensen, Rovny, Paulinho, Tossatto, Boaro. That's a hell of a good Giro team

Froome and Contador have both had good teams around them. Froome is just better as using them.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Contador won tours without a team?! Are you kidding me? Zubeldia, popovych, kloden, leipheimer and paulinho in the tour 2009.....seriously? And i don t need to remember tour de france 2013 when contador couldn t follow froome and saxo bank had better team than sky in that year. Kreuziger, rodgers, jesus hernandez, froome just had richie porte in the tour 2013 to help him. Giro 2008 and Vuelta 2008, contador had again leipheimer, paulinho,kloden.
Maybe contador won 2 or 3 tours without a team, but also froome won some tours without team. Vuelta 2011, giro 2018 he won attacking at 80 km, he didn t need of team to do that, tour 2013, he won attacking om ax 3 domaines, ventoux and in the itts, he just had like i said richie porte sometimes.

2008 LL was riding for himself both GTs and you can say Klöden was as well until he got sick in the Giro
2009 team was all for LA
2010 Contador had a weak team filled with his friends to make up for last years tour and still had Vino to deal with.
2011 Froome was an after thought to fill the team.
2013 Contador had his strongest team with Sky having a strong team as well with, EBH, Thomas, Kennaugh, Stannard, Kiryienka, and Porte. The only "weak" members would have been Lopez and Sivstov.
2018 Froome had Poels, Kiryienka, and Henao.

 

[Koronin]

His 2015 Giro team: Rogers, Kreuziger, Basso, CJ Jensen, Rovny, Paulinho, Tossatto, Boaro. That's a hell of a good Giro team

Froome and Contador have both had good teams around them. Froome is just better as using them.

It wasn't close to as good as Astana. If you actually WATCH the race you will see it is Contador vs Astana. Doesn't matter what the team looks like on paper. What matters is how they ride in the race. His Giro team was not capable of doing what they needed to do.

 

[SHAD0W93]

They may have been his mates, but it was his choice to have them there. Nibali, Quintana and Sagan all have their brothers on their team, but they don't pick them for the Tour. Contador obviously valued them. Porte had come seventh in the Giro the year before. Contador had him pulling on the flats.

Froome had a better team largely because he's a better leader.

He vauled them because they're his friends to help keep a calm environment especially with the last 5 GTs he won always had riders on his own team trying to beat him and working for themselves. Specifically LL, LA, and Vino.
Again Porte himself stated he did absolutely nothing to help Contador in the GTs since he simply couldn't. He wasn't there as a rider until Sky. The same 7th were he got 13 minutes from a breakaway?

Froome has a better team largely because Sky has lots of money not because of his leadership.

 

[Rui Machado]

It wasn't close to as good as Astana. If you actually WATCH the race you will see it is Contador vs Astana. Doesn't matter what the team looks like on paper. What matters is how they ride in the race. His Giro team was not capable of doing what they needed to do.

Tell me one thing, let s forget who had a better team....tell me if Contador could follow froome s wheel at his best....froome always dropped contador, i don t need to say more, to prove who were the best gc rider of this modern era. Froome were better than contador in the itts, in the mountains, in the descents, how could you say that contador were a better rider than froome? If we are talking of the teams, i still could not agree, after andorra arcalis attack, astana rode for contador.

 

[Parker]

He vauled them because they're his friends to help keep a calm environment especially with the last 5 GTs he won always had riders on his own team trying to beat him and working for themselves. Specifically LL, LA, and Vino.
Again Porte himself stated he did absolutely nothing to help Contador in the GTs since he simply couldn't. He wasn't there as a rider until Sky. The same 7th were he got 13 minutes from a breakaway?

Froome has a better team largely because Sky has lots of money not because of his leadership.

So what you're saying is that Contador was such a poor leader that anyone who fancied their chances rode against him so he had to bring in some friends. But the only friends he had were inadequate riders.

Leadership is part of the job of being a leader. It seems Contador was rubbish at it.

 

[Rui Machado]

So what you're saying is that Contador was such a poor leader that anyone who fancied their chances rode against him so he had to bring in some friends. But the only friends he had were inadequate riders.

Leadership is part of the job of being a leader. It seems Contador was rubbish at it.

Contador had a better team than froome in tour 2013, and he could not beat froome. Rodgers, kreuziger,jesus hernandez weren t enough......

 

[sir fly]

Contador certainly looked like a touriste-routier against Froome, thus all the confusion about his team support.

 

[Koronin]

Tell me one thing, let s forget who had a better team....tell me if Contador could follow froome s wheel at his best....froome always dropped contador, i don t need to say more, to prove who were the best gc rider of this modern era. Froome were better than contador in the itts, in the mountains, in the descents, how could you say that contador were a better rider than froome? If we are talking of the teams, i still could not agree, after andorra arcalis attack, astana rode for contador.

At the height of Contador's career Froome wouldn't have been close to Contador. You're right, nothing more needs to be said Froome is not close to what Contador was.