Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

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Contador was never the same after 2010.

So the question is which Contador are you comparing to Froome?

Post 2010 Contador won only two battles with Froome: 2012 Vuelta when Froome tired after doing the TDF; and 2014 Vuelta when Froome clearly was not as recovered from injury as Contador. Otherwise, frankly, Contador was dominated by Froome in the mountains and particularly in the time trials. In those he never came close to recapturing the "form" that had him beating Cancellera in 2010...

Froome particularly dominated Contador in races in France. And I have my suspicions as to why that would be...
 
There s no technically and nothing gifted, contador won 7 tours and froome also 7 tours. Contador and cobo breaked the rules, that s simple.
He beat froome multiple times? When? In Vuelta 2014 when he sucked froome s wheel? That s the only time i remember.
If this forum has certain rules, we shouldn t be talking about Armstrong.
You really can't get out of your bias to look at this objectively at all. Froome at his peak would have had no chance of beating Contador at his career peak.
Contador WON 3 Tours and 9 GTs on the road. Froome was racing against a POST peak Contador and Contador DID beat him. Contador won by his own abilities. Froome has won because of Sky/Ineos not his own abilities for the most part.
We can talk about Lance all we want to in the context of racing in this forum.
 
Jun 15, 2020
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Contador was never the same after 2010.

So the question is which Contador are you comparing to Froome?

Post 2010 Contador won only two battles with Froome: 2012 Vuelta when Froome tired after doing the TDF; and 2014 Vuelta when Froome clearly was not as recovered from injury as Contador. Otherwise, frankly, Contador was dominated by Froome in the mountains and particularly in the time trials. In those he never came close to recapturing the "form" that had him beating Cancellera in 2010...

Froome particularly dominated Contador in races in France. And I have my suspicions as to why that would be...
And why contador after his suspension, was never the same he was in 2007/2010? Can someone explain me that?! Certainly it wasn t because of his age.... in 2011 he had 29 years.
Your suspicions are right.
 
And why contador after his suspension, was never the same he was in 2007/2010? Can someone explain me that?! Certainly it wasn t because of his age.... in 2011 he had 29 years.
Your suspicions are right.
And then bang: Everest record. I think motivation counts a lot for any cyclist. That and training and rider programs evolved as well. It wasn't like his competition sat around and got fat while he was suspended.
 
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And then bang: Everest record. I think motivation counts a lot for any cyclist. That and training and rider programs evolved as well. It wasn't like his competition sat around and got fat while he was suspended.
And he was very strong in 2014. I think after 2012 he thought he would still be fine as is maybe and then got a shellacking in 2013. Pushed for 2014 and was strong, had goals for 2015. I'm aure the crashes he kept having played a mental as well as physical role.
 
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As has been said here before, Contador has had strong teams backing him several times, but the way he used them meant that it was the strenght of Contador himself and not his team that stayed in the memory. The way Navarro rode everyone but Andy and Contador off his wheel in TDF 2010 was an exception in that context.

My impression is that Contadors pre-suspension peak was higher than anything we have seen from Froome, but he never had the kind of intimidation factor going for him, like the combination of Froome and Sky train had for the Kenyan/Briton.

Specially during the later years when he started targeting GT doubles did that combination of Sky's actual strenght and intimidation factor come in handy for Froome. Given his own strenght he probably would have won at least 2-3 Tours with a singnificantly weaker team too, but there likely would be no Tour-Vuelta double (a lot had to go his way as it was already) and no holding all three GT titles at the same time. Likely extra energy required to clinch those Tours would almost certainly had come back to bite him at his second GT.
For me a really big question is indeed how much energy Froome saves through a GT by sitting on his team so much and wasting as little energy as possible.

As for Contador, he was still a threat after he came back, but IMO his timing and crashes were pretty damn awful. I think his final Vuelta basically being his best race after his final Giro win speaks a little bit. Crashing in like 5 consecutive GTs wasn't pretty.
 
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And he was very strong in 2014. I think after 2012 he thought he would still be fine as is maybe and then got a shellacking in 2013. Pushed for 2014 and was strong, had goals for 2015. I'm aure the crashes he kept having played a mental as well as physical role.
Contador started 2013 fine IIRC. Won a MTF in San Luis IIRC? Maybe he was undertrained, but he definitely overraced in shite weather when the form wasn't there. I think Contador racing hard every spring didn't help in the GTs and that's a bit of a what if for me.
 
It's usually impossible to determine on who was better when reaching the peak. In addition in cycling and GT races it is not only about an individual quality. Contador against Froome with Sky and Contador against Froome with some other team. The results could likely be different.

On individual level i feel that there is no denying Contador was strong. As for Froome, there is always that dilemma, Sky, but if Froome wouldn't be strong, in the end he wouldn't win much GT races. Peak Contador likely would outperform peak Froome, but Froome would likely win a GT race or two too.
 
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And another aspect is quantity. When you hear "multiple Tour and multiple other GT races" winner. You can easily assume a great team and a great team support (the best).

Like the situation in F1, where you must be good, but if you have the best car, you will add championships in your statistics, year after years again ... Boring.
 
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In modern cycling racing, especially the GT races, you must be great, but you must have a great team too, to win. Sure there still are GT races in each season, due to various factors, where a more individual approach can get you there, but overall, if you don't have the best team, your chances drop significantly.
 
For me a really big question is indeed how much energy Froome saves through a GT by sitting on his team so much and wasting as little energy as possible.

As for Contador, he was still a threat after he came back, but IMO his timing and crashes were pretty damn awful. I think his final Vuelta basically being his best race after his final Giro win speaks a little bit. Crashing in like 5 consecutive GTs wasn't pretty.
Bigger question then is why did other riders not just follow Froome's train too and wasting as little energy as possible? Nobody told them to drop off the back of it lol!
 
Analysis of Sky Train with washing machine

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4ly-xoeKWA

What that misses is that both times Contador attacks he still has a teammate with him (Kreuziger I think). Why does he not use him? Put him on the front riding himself to destruction prior to the attack to weaken Sky's defence.

There's a difference between having a weak team and having a strong team that you don't use properly.
 
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Up to a point. That is in cycling individual quality and achievement, although this is a team sport, is valued. Whenever a rider attacks and gains an advantage, that is considered of the highest admiration. Contador could therefore try resulting to more tactics, but i am not sure that that was his style.
 
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