Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[Ripper]

I agree, I mean what happened to Lemond, he was shot with dozens of bullets, bet then? He sucked totally for a while, even in the 89 Giro until the last TT. Then Guimard was concerned. And Laurent seemed the superior in the mountains, but...tribars saved the day, plus a stellar form after three weeks of a slug fest. I don't think Froome today has it in him, because we have entered into virtual reality.

I believe Lemond was shot by a shotgun, so he was full of shotgun pellets not bullets. He was shot in 87, and lost the remainder of that year. He sucked in 1988, but that was partly due to overtraining and he required surgery I believe. In 1989 he raced himself into fitness.

Not really comparable injuries between Froome and Lemond. This said, Lemond certainly came back to the highest level much quicker than Froome has managed so far (a middling level at best).

 

[Ripper]

And why contador was never the same after 2009? what happened?

Much of that likely the topic for the clinic. Exacerbating things was, he wasn't getting younger.

 

[Red Rick]

It was all illness, crashes and horrid luck, as well as doing the Giro

 

[SHAD0W93]

And why contador was never the same after 2009? what happened?

Contador was told he’s in charge of what goes inside his body, no matter if it’s accidental, his fault, or on purpose vs it’s not your fault if it’s an accident.

 

[perico]

I believe Lemond was shot by a shotgun, so he was full of shotgun pellets not bullets. He was shot in 87, and lost the remainder of that year. He sucked in 1988, but that was partly due to overtraining and he required surgery I believe. In 1989 he raced himself into fitness.

Not really comparable injuries between Froome and Lemond. This said, Lemond certainly came back to the highest level much quicker than Froome has managed so far (a middling level at best).

LeMond was a good 10 years younger when he was shot. He was just entering his prime. Froome was likely at the end of what would be considered his normal prime.

 

[Taxus4a]

And why contador was never the same after 2009? what happened?

The same that allowed people as Froome to get better results.

 

[Taxus4a]

And why contador was never the same after 2009? what happened?

Anyway he did a good palmares those years..always avoiding the best riders in top form...becouse at le Tour nothing to do to be podium..it is even better now there his successor Enric Mas.

 

[perico]

Nah, nah. Fans always point to Dauphine that year but forget that Froome beat him in the prologue and first MTF. Froome then crashed. And contador couldn’t even beat Andrew Talansky.

There is a very logical reason Contador never came close (particularly in France) after 2010 DQ.

He never won a stage, never podiumed, never wore the yellow jersey. And he often struggled in ITTs. No more beating Cancellera in a flat TT. and often strangely on the rivet, seated and straining when climbing. Never the explosiveness of Verbiers or Aubisque with Rasmussen. He was a very, very different rider.

And Contador beat Froome at the 2016 Dauphine prologue. That’s irrelevant. Contador won Tirreno, beat Froome head to head in Cataluña, won País Vasco, and the Vuelta, and then followed that up with a Giro in 2015. Froome was 0-Contador that year. He couldn’t stay upright.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Nah, nah. Fans always point to Dauphine that year but forget that Froome beat him in the prologue and first MTF. Froome then crashed. And contador couldn’t even beat Andrew Talansky.

​

There is a very logical reason Contador never came close (particularly in France) after 2010 DQ.

He never won a stage, never podiumed, never wore the yellow jersey. And he often struggled in ITTs. No more beating Cancellera in a flat TT. and often strangely on the rivet, seated and straining when climbing. Never the explosiveness of Verbiers or Aubisque with Rasmussen. He was a very, very different rider.

I don't disagree with you that his performance was not the same later in his career, but some of this is way off. Here is a list of his ITTs greater than 30km. Clearly peaked in 2009 but pretty consistently great for a GT specialist (but not the #1 ITTer) aside from that. I think he also peaked earlier than Froome, winning the Tour at 23 and fizzling out by his early 30s, which is pretty standard until recently.
Edit: He also struggled with crashes in every GT post 2012 except for maybe the 2017 Vuelta?

• 2007:
  • 6th at the Tour
  • 5th at the Tour
• 2008:
  • 2nd at the Giro
  • 4th at the Olympics
  • 4th at the Vuelta
• 2009:
  • 5th at the Dauphine
  • 1st at The Tour
• 2010:
  • 3rd at the Tour
  • 35th at the Tour
• 2011:
  • 8th at the Vuelta
• 2012:
  • 2nd at the Vuelta
  • 9nth at the World Championships
• 2013:
  • 15th at the Tour
  • 2nd at the Tour
• 2014:
  • 4th at the Vuelta
• 2015:
  • 3rd at the Giro
• 2016:
  • 8th at the Vuelta
• 2017:
  • 5th at the Vuelta

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Anyway he did a good palmares those years..always avoiding the best riders in top form...becouse at le Tour nothing to do to be podium..it is even better now there his successor Enric Mas.

LOL this is such a harsh and bitter assessment. Contador didn't duck the competition. He lined up for the Tour in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017. What on earth are you talking about, just the fact that he rode the Giro in 2015 before the Tour?

 

[Parker]

Both Contador and Froome belong in the lineage of the top GC rider. Bobet-Anquetil-Merckx-Hinault-LeMond-Indurain-Armstrong-Contador-Froome-Pogacar(pending)

Who was the best? Your favourite was because he was your favourite. Happy now?

 

[Big Doopie]

not going to respond. people believe what they want to believe.

to me there is no doubt that there was a huge drop off (particularly when racing in France - and there is a reason for that). and this puts in question his entire legacy and place in cycling history.

there was no one happier than myself when we finally got rid of him when he retired.

only valverde remains, unfortunately, the final bane to my return to full enjoyment of cycling.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

I mean that's fine, but I didn't post beliefs; I posted ITT results. Clearly, he was at his peak in 2009, but I am not sure he was better in 2010 (pre-ban) than in 2014, but that's OK. It seems like you're really trying to engage in a clinic conversation.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Since I enthusiastically followed the rabbit down the well-worn Contador vs. Froome hole, however, I will post something to bring it back out. I think this is clear progress and way beyond anything I expected to see from him. It also in no way indicates he will come close to threatening for a GT. Hopefully, he can perform well enough to feel like he gave it his all and then retire into a sport ambassador type role.

 

[Big Doopie]

I mean that's fine, but I didn't post beliefs; I posted ITT results. Clearly, he was at his peak in 2009, but I am not sure he was better in 2010 (pre-ban) than in 2014, but that's OK. It seems like you're really trying to engage in a clinic conversation.

all good.

i actually specifically did not respond to other posts because i did not want to go there. i have been banned enough for telling the truth, so...

i actually think it is absolutely ludicrous for any discussion to take place about this type of rider in the race threads, period -- same when i see someone here talking about armstrong or whatever, as if you can use him to compare with anyone, it's just silly...it's the definition of apples and oranges.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

That's a fair point and I largely agree. Probably goes a little hard on the structured delineations and rules here, but see the running forum letsrun.com for what a cesspool it can be without any regulation at all.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Both Contador and Froome belong in the lineage of the top GC rider. Bobet-Anquetil-Merckx-Hinault-LeMond-Indurain-Armstrong-Contador-Froome-Pogacar(pending)

Who was the best? Your favourite was because he was your favourite. Happy now?

I don’t see Ullrich on there though.

 

[Ripper]

LeMond was a good 10 years younger when he was shot. He was just entering his prime. Froome was likely at the end of what would be considered his normal prime.

Yup ... not really comparable injuries or situations (or people I guess).

 

[TMP402]

I don’t see Ullrich on there though.

Or Roberto Heras.

 

[Ripper]

Interesting Secret Pro from Cyclingtips. Slams IPT pretty hard. "Retirement home"

The Secret Pro: Giro gossip and underperforming teams

Some big teams need to get their act together.

cyclingtips.com

 

[movingtarget]

I believe Lemond was shot by a shotgun, so he was full of shotgun pellets not bullets. He was shot in 87, and lost the remainder of that year. He sucked in 1988, but that was partly due to overtraining and he required surgery I believe. In 1989 he raced himself into fitness.

Not really comparable injuries between Froome and Lemond. This said, Lemond certainly came back to the highest level much quicker than Froome has managed so far (a middling level at best).

Lemond was more of a so called natural talent than Froome. His success at a young age came fast and he was signed to be Hinault's super domestique and eventual successor. Hard to know how much the shotgun incident affected his health after he recovered. Lemond was also a very good one day rider as some of his results show unlike Froome but most GC riders rode the classics back then, not like now. Lemond was definitely the more versatile rider and he handed Hinault his final Tour win when he could have ridden away from him. Froome was also obviously holding back in the 2012 Tour when Wiggins won.

 

[dutchdescent]

Contador?

10 pages since yesterday. See what you started?

 

[dutchdescent]

10 pages since yesterday. See what you started?

He who shall not be named

 

[Extinction]

I believe Lemond was shot by a shotgun, so he was full of shotgun pellets not bullets. He was shot in 87, and lost the remainder of that year. He sucked in 1988, but that was partly due to overtraining and he required surgery I believe. In 1989 he raced himself into fitness.

Not really comparable injuries between Froome and Lemond. This said, Lemond certainly came back to the highest level much quicker than Froome has managed so far (a middling level at best).

I believe too. With Froome, not so much.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

I agree, I mean what happened to Lemond, he was shot with dozens of bullets, bet then? He sucked totally for a while, even in the 89 Giro until the last TT. Then Guimard was concerned. And Laurent seemed the superior in the mountains, but...tribars saved the day, plus a stellar form after three weeks of a slug fest. I don't think Froome today has it in him, because we have entered into virtual reality.

Lemond was struggling in the spring of 89, but not struggling at all compared to what Froome has done. Lemond was 6th in Tirreno and 4th in Criterium International (behind Indurain, Mottet and Roche, but beating Fignon!). If Froome had results anywhere near this level there could be a reason to be optimistic about his chances in top level competition, but he isn't close and even if he "keeps improving" he will still be far away.