Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[SeriousSam]

I agree. I think you need to go back to 09 to find a version of Contador you could be confident would be able to hold Froome's wheel up Ax3 and Ventoux. If you want a rider who can drop Ax3/Ventoux Dawg for significant time, you probably need 04 Armstrong or some 90s rider.

 

[DBotero]

Re:

I agree. I think you need to go back to 09 to find a version of Contador you could be confident would be able to hold Froome's wheel up Ax3 and Ventoux. If you want a rider who can drop Ax3/Ventoux Dawg for significant time, you probably need 04 Armstrong or some 90s rider.

Nibali numbers in TDF 2014 seems to indicate that he could have hold his wheel on those climbs,drop him,now that's another story.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

I really don't know if the best contador can follow the best Froome. I've never seen it. I would give the edge to Froome, i hope i'm wrong though.

god no! of course can follow him.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re: Re:

I really don't know if the best contador can follow the best Froome. I've never seen it. I would give the edge to Froome, i hope i'm wrong though.

god no! of course can follow him.

I agree, I think stage 2 of the Dauphine showed that when both riders were almost in top form it was one heck of a battle. I think it could be difficult for Contador this year though, on closer inspection the Giro does look very tough and I think Contador suffer in the Tour because of this. Especially when you consider he could have an in-form Froome, Quintana and Nibali to deal with and not just one main rival.

 

[The Hitch]

2009 Contador is imo the 2nd greatest climber of all time behind Pantani, so I think a peak peak Contador could beat Froome, but this is 6 years later.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

2009 Contador is imo the 2nd greatest climber of all time behind Pantani, so I think a peak peak Contador could beat Froome, but this is 6 years later.

Nothing has changed, (almost - their peaks are gone) he still can, I dont know how you can doubt that esp with how Froome performed in recent time.

 

[ray j willings]

Re:

right cos Contador and Quintana weren't there when Froome won the Tour.

Oh wait.

Oh wait...Contador in 2013 was way off his best and you know it. Quintana still developing as a GT rider and you know it.

Go back to Hitch world

 

[Miburo]

Re:

2009 Contador is imo the 2nd greatest climber of all time behind Pantani, so I think a peak peak Contador could beat Froome, but this is 6 years later.

I disagree, i still think '07 Contador was the best. He lost his touch a bit in the last week.

But rewatch tignes and the galibier. By far the best rider on those stages.

 

[staubsauger]

Tignes? No way!

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

I really don't know if the best contador can follow the best Froome. I've never seen it. I would give the edge to Froome, i hope i'm wrong though.

god no! of course can follow him.

I agree, I think stage 2 of the Dauphine showed that when both riders were almost in top form it was one heck of a battle. I think it could be difficult for Contador this year though, on closer inspection the Giro does look very tough and I think Contador suffer in the Tour because of this. Especially when you consider he could have an in-form Froome, Quintana and Nibali to deal with and not just one main rival.

It depends if Bertie can conserve energy. That will be his goal if he his looking like a sure fire Giro winner.
I think it will be hard for Bertie to win both and that will depend how good Froome,Quintana and Nibs are riding.
If they play tactics and Bertie gets past the first week easily then I expect Bertie to be a threat. If he gets a particular easy ride then Bertie will be to strong in the 3rd week. Froome will have a bad day or 2 as he does and Nibs cannot match Bertie up a climb so Quintana would be his main threat out of the "big 3"
If I was Movie or Sky, Astana I would make it tough from the start so Bertie gets no chance to recover from the Giro.
The thing is, races never go to plan and the unexpected is bound to happen.
Lets hope we get some excitement and no injuries.

 

[Mr.White]

Re:

I got the impression from Froome that he wan't too pushed about Romandie ...SKY team yes ...but not Froome

SKY came out in February firing on all cylinders and now are maybe paying the price a bit ...with injuries & some sickness

Froome knows what he needs to do and where he needs to be by July ...but I guess like Nibali he is not prepared to do it too early for reasons of health and sustainability...I guess once you have won the Tour and proven your worth then 1. you can set your own agenda somewhat and 2. wining stages races can become no big deal

I mean Quintana nor Nibali didn't kill themselves and Contador doesn't bother too much with stage race wins

Porte on the other hand has tried to win all stages races he has entered...he has still to prove his worth as a GT contender and maybe when he does he won't be too pushed about winning Paris Nice

Its so different now than say in the 1980s where all races were raced by team leaders
But i guess the competition is now so intense and what you have to do to win is so strenuous that riders can be forgiven for not going all out all year ....Only Valverde seems to want to do this and maybe Purito

Yeah that's why he pulled his group for 3-4 km's.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

right cos Contador and Quintana weren't there when Froome won the Tour.

Oh wait.

Don't forget Valverde and Purito

 

[Miburo]

Re:

Tignes? No way!

Must have missed the flat tire part. And the fact that he dropped menchov and sastre like it was nothing afterwards and almost closed the gape to the piti group in no time.

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Re:

I got the impression from Froome that he wan't too pushed about Romandie ...SKY team yes ...but not Froome

SKY came out in February firing on all cylinders and now are maybe paying the price a bit ...with injuries & some sickness

Froome knows what he needs to do and where he needs to be by July ...but I guess like Nibali he is not prepared to do it too early for reasons of health and sustainability...I guess once you have won the Tour and proven your worth then 1. you can set your own agenda somewhat and 2. wining stages races can become no big deal

I mean Quintana nor Nibali didn't kill themselves and Contador doesn't bother too much with stage race wins

Porte on the other hand has tried to win all stages races he has entered...he has still to prove his worth as a GT contender and maybe when he does he won't be too pushed about winning Paris Nice

Its so different now than say in the 1980s where all races were raced by team leaders
But i guess the competition is now so intense and what you have to do to win is so strenuous that riders can be forgiven for not going all out all year ....Only Valverde seems to want to do this and maybe Purito

Yeah that's why he pulled his group for 3-4 km's.

That's just how he rides. Unlike the other big GC riders, he is not terrified of setting the pace.

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

I got the impression from Froome that he wan't too pushed about Romandie ...SKY team yes ...but not Froome

SKY came out in February firing on all cylinders and now are maybe paying the price a bit ...with injuries & some sickness

Froome knows what he needs to do and where he needs to be by July ...but I guess like Nibali he is not prepared to do it too early for reasons of health and sustainability...I guess once you have won the Tour and proven your worth then 1. you can set your own agenda somewhat and 2. wining stages races can become no big deal

I mean Quintana nor Nibali didn't kill themselves and Contador doesn't bother too much with stage race wins

Porte on the other hand has tried to win all stages races he has entered...he has still to prove his worth as a GT contender and maybe when he does he won't be too pushed about winning Paris Nice

Its so different now than say in the 1980s where all races were raced by team leaders
But i guess the competition is now so intense and what you have to do to win is so strenuous that riders can be forgiven for not going all out all year ....Only Valverde seems to want to do this and maybe Purito

Yeah that's why he pulled his group for 3-4 km's.

That's just how he rides. Unlike the other big GC riders, he is not terrified of setting the pace.

Not true. he's using his comp. He did not set the pace on one stage at the Vuelta last year, Valverde was more aggressive.
He did not set the pace on one stage when he won the tour. He cannot match the accelerations if they keep happening early on in a mountain stage like in the vuelta and like when Bertie dropped him
here http://www.steephill.tv/players/youtube3/?title=Last+10+Km+of+Stage+3&dashboard=vuelta-a-andalucia-ruta-ciclista-del-sol&id=arDWUzDwh8I&start=3&yr=2015

 

[infeXio]

Froome could probably have followed Contador's acceleration had he actually been near the front when the last climb started in Ruta del Sol... Hardly an indication of his (supposed) inability to follow accelerations.

 

[SeriousSam]

Re:

ray, I'm not saying he always goes out of his way to set the pace. He does it when he doesn't have a teammate to do it for him or if the pace isn't good enough for his liking. On that stage Valverde set the pace (one of my favourite uphill wins of his) because he was essentially being a domestique for Quintana. Of course, Quintana was *** and got dropped in the finish and Valverde won, but Valverde was not the GC leader of movistar.

Later on, when Valverde faded, it was Froome who set the pace. Contador was strong, managed to hold his wheel for like 10km and sprinted away in the last 800m.

infeXio already addressed the Ruta del Sol.

Froome could probably have followed Contador's acceleration had he actually been near the front when the last climb started in Ruta del Sol... Hardly an indication of his (supposed) inability to follow accelerations.

Indeed. Though we don't know, the circumstances certainly leave that possibility open. And he didn't lose much time in the end.

On the other hand, Contador absolutely could not follow Froome's acceleration the next day and lost an enormous amount of time in 1km because he completely cracked.

 

[rick james]

Re: Re:

ray, I'm not saying he always goes out of his way to set the pace. He does it when he doesn't have a teammate to do it for him or if the pace isn't good enough for his liking. On that stage Valverde set the pace (one of my favourite uphill wins of his) because he was essentially being a domestique for Quintana. Of course, Quintana was **** and got dropped in the finish and Valverde won, but Valverde was not the GC leader of movistar.

Later on, when Valverde faded, it was Froome who set the pace. Contador was strong, managed to hold his wheel for like 10km and sprinted away in the last 800m.

infeXio already addressed the Ruta del Sol.

Froome could probably have followed Contador's acceleration had he actually been near the front when the last climb started in Ruta del Sol... Hardly an indication of his (supposed) inability to follow accelerations.

Indeed. Though we don't know, the circumstances certainly leave that possibility open. And he didn't lose much time in the end.

On the other hand, Contador absolutely could not follow Froome's acceleration the next day and lost an enormous amount of time in 1km because he completely cracked.

Bertie fans don't like to talk about that.

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

ray, I'm not saying he always goes out of his way to set the pace. He does it when he doesn't have a teammate to do it for him or if the pace isn't good enough for his liking. On that stage Valverde set the pace (one of my favourite uphill wins of his) because he was essentially being a domestique for Quintana. Of course, Quintana was **** and got dropped in the finish and Valverde won, but Valverde was not the GC leader of movistar.

Later on, when Valverde faded, it was Froome who set the pace. Contador was strong, managed to hold his wheel for like 10km and sprinted away in the last 800m.

infeXio already addressed the Ruta del Sol.

Froome could probably have followed Contador's acceleration had he actually been near the front when the last climb started in Ruta del Sol... Hardly an indication of his (supposed) inability to follow accelerations.

Indeed. Though we don't know, the circumstances certainly leave that possibility open. And he didn't lose much time in the end.

On the other hand, Contador absolutely could not follow Froome's acceleration the next day and lost an enormous amount of time in 1km because he completely cracked.

Bertie fans don't like to talk about that.

It's been so traumatic that even Contador himself adopted childish rationalisation of his fans: "It's 2-1 for me in total... the itt and a stage, you know..."

 

[Ataraxus]

Re: Re:

ray, I'm not saying he always goes out of his way to set the pace. He does it when he doesn't have a teammate to do it for him or if the pace isn't good enough for his liking. On that stage Valverde set the pace (one of my favourite uphill wins of his) because he was essentially being a domestique for Quintana. Of course, Quintana was **** and got dropped in the finish and Valverde won, but Valverde was not the GC leader of movistar.

Later on, when Valverde faded, it was Froome who set the pace. Contador was strong, managed to hold his wheel for like 10km and sprinted away in the last 800m.

infeXio already addressed the Ruta del Sol.

Froome could probably have followed Contador's acceleration had he actually been near the front when the last climb started in Ruta del Sol... Hardly an indication of his (supposed) inability to follow accelerations.

Indeed. Though we don't know, the circumstances certainly leave that possibility open. And he didn't lose much time in the end.

On the other hand, Contador absolutely could not follow Froome's acceleration the next day and lost an enormous amount of time in 1km because he completely cracked.

Bertie fans don't like to talk about that.

That attack was the most (seemingly) brutal attack I've seen. Even more than the Col du Beal in 2014. And I remember many people in this forum saying they had never seen anything like that back then. The duration was exactly the same but the slopes Alto de Allandas were higher
Of course Bertie's fans don't like that because they've almost never seen Contador blow that hard (2013 doesn't count). He sat in the saddle just 1-2 seconds before Froome did and suddenly Froome was 20 meters ahead. Amazing.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

ray, I'm not saying he always goes out of his way to set the pace. He does it when he doesn't have a teammate to do it for him or if the pace isn't good enough for his liking. On that stage Valverde set the pace (one of my favourite uphill wins of his) because he was essentially being a domestique for Quintana. Of course, Quintana was **** and got dropped in the finish and Valverde won, but Valverde was not the GC leader of movistar.

Later on, when Valverde faded, it was Froome who set the pace. Contador was strong, managed to hold his wheel for like 10km and sprinted away in the last 800m.

infeXio already addressed the Ruta del Sol.

Froome could probably have followed Contador's acceleration had he actually been near the front when the last climb started in Ruta del Sol... Hardly an indication of his (supposed) inability to follow accelerations.

Indeed. Though we don't know, the circumstances certainly leave that possibility open. And he didn't lose much time in the end.

On the other hand, Contador absolutely could not follow Froome's acceleration the next day and lost an enormous amount of time in 1km because he completely cracked.

Bertie fans don't like to talk about that.

I don't mind talking about it. It's pretty obvious neither one of them was in top form then. We all know you can have great days and bad days when the form is sketchy. AC had his day and CF had his and got the better of him GC wise. See not to painful to talk about.

 

[Ataraxus]

Re: Re:

ray, I'm not saying he always goes out of his way to set the pace. He does it when he doesn't have a teammate to do it for him or if the pace isn't good enough for his liking. On that stage Valverde set the pace (one of my favourite uphill wins of his) because he was essentially being a domestique for Quintana. Of course, Quintana was **** and got dropped in the finish and Valverde won, but Valverde was not the GC leader of movistar.

Later on, when Valverde faded, it was Froome who set the pace. Contador was strong, managed to hold his wheel for like 10km and sprinted away in the last 800m.

infeXio already addressed the Ruta del Sol.

Froome could probably have followed Contador's acceleration had he actually been near the front when the last climb started in Ruta del Sol... Hardly an indication of his (supposed) inability to follow accelerations.

Indeed. Though we don't know, the circumstances certainly leave that possibility open. And he didn't lose much time in the end.

On the other hand, Contador absolutely could not follow Froome's acceleration the next day and lost an enormous amount of time in 1km because he completely cracked.

Bertie fans don't like to talk about that.

I don't mind talking about it. It's pretty obvious neither one of them was in top form then. We all know you can have great days and bad days when the form is sketchy. AC had his day and CF had his and got the better of him GC wise. See not to painful to talk about.

I agree with you, but from the spectacle point of view it was a rare moment in cycling IMHO. If it would have happened in a GT, it would have easily become a Pantani-Tonkov Montecampione moment, perhaps even more than that.

 

[ferryman]

Re: Re:

infeXio already addressed the Ruta del Sol.

Froome could probably have followed Contador's acceleration had he actually been near the front when the last climb started in Ruta del Sol... Hardly an indication of his (supposed) inability to follow accelerations.

Indeed. Though we don't know, the circumstances certainly leave that possibility open. And he didn't lose much time in the end.

He wasn't and it was a brutal 7K out attack on which Froome whilst admirably responding to in his now famous yo-yo style couldn't bridge. A 7K out attack mind.

On the other hand, Contador absolutely could not follow Froome's acceleration the next day and lost an enormous amount of time in 1km because he completely cracked.[/quote]

Agreed, but after his 7K out attack on his own, is it really that surprising.


Bertie fans don't like to talk about that.[/quote]

I don't mind talking about a 7K out attack by Contador any day of the week.

It's been so traumatic that even Contador himself adopted childish rationalisation of his fans: "It's 2-1 for me in total... the itt and a stage, you know..."[/quote]

A big effort in the ITT followed by, yep, a 7K out attack, whilst still in training mode is...you know..quite satisfying I guess.

Look, it was early days for FFS and they are not going to meet again until TDF. And it will not be the Bertie/Froome show that is for sure...

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

ray, I'm not saying he always goes out of his way to set the pace. He does it when he doesn't have a teammate to do it for him or if the pace isn't good enough for his liking. On that stage Valverde set the pace (one of my favourite uphill wins of his) because he was essentially being a domestique for Quintana. Of course, Quintana was **** and got dropped in the finish and Valverde won, but Valverde was not the GC leader of movistar.

Later on, when Valverde faded, it was Froome who set the pace. Contador was strong, managed to hold his wheel for like 10km and sprinted away in the last 800m.

infeXio already addressed the Ruta del Sol.

Froome could probably have followed Contador's acceleration had he actually been near the front when the last climb started in Ruta del Sol... Hardly an indication of his (supposed) inability to follow accelerations.

Indeed. Though we don't know, the circumstances certainly leave that possibility open. And he didn't lose much time in the end.

On the other hand, Contador absolutely could not follow Froome's acceleration the next day and lost an enormous amount of time in 1km because he completely cracked.

Bertie fans don't like to talk about that.

I don't mind talking about it. It's pretty obvious neither one of them was in top form then. We all know you can have great days and bad days when the form is sketchy. AC had his day and CF had his and got the better of him GC wise. See not to painful to talk about.

I agree with you, but from the spectacle point of view it was a rare moment in cycling IMHO. If it would have happened in a GT, it would have easily become a Pantani-Tonkov Montecampione moment, perhaps even more than that.

It was an impressive attack. I would have been much more worried had it happened in a gt.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I agree with you, but from the spectacle point of view it was a rare moment in cycling IMHO. If it would have happened in a GT, it would have easily become a Pantani-Tonkov Montecampione moment, perhaps even more than that.

But it didn't happen in a GT. And in a GT riders are generally in better shape and perform more consistently so it is much less likely to happen. By the way I doubt that "last km" was 1 km as the speeds were rather high IIRC yet the last k seemed to go on forever so this "enormous amount of time in 1km" is a bit silly (reply to SeriousSam not you)