Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[Jagartrott]

I agree that the point system in general can be improved and that some races have been allocated too many points. But also using other systems, Froome would/should not win over an entire year - the WT is not 'biggest achievements', it's best overall in WT races. In PCS, Froome is currently 4th, for instance.

 

[jarvo]

Re:

I agree that the point system in general can be improved and that some races have been allocated too many points. But also using other systems, Froome would/should not win over an entire year - the WT is not 'biggest achievements', it's best overall in WT races. In PCS, Froome is currently 4th, for instance.

Looking at the PCS rankings, how can Kristoff be a place higher than the guy that has won 2 grand tours? Off the top of my head I would say Kristoff has had a bang average season, and even he has said its not be a season that he had planned it to be

 

[TMP402]

Time to start worrying, folks:

When asked whether it was possible to win all three Tours in one year, he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "I wouldn't say it's impossible, nothing's impossible, but certainly it would take some doing."

 

[jarvo]

Re:

Time to start worrying, folks:

When asked whether it was possible to win all three Tours in one year, he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "I wouldn't say it's impossible, nothing's impossible, but certainly it would take some doing."

I don't see any way he tries this until he has his 5th tour, then who knows? he could target it on a tour by tour basis in 2019, target the giro to complete the set then see how his prep goes for eac of the other tours? Realistically it will not happen, you need a perfect storm of form, fitness and luck not to crash or puncture etc. and there is no way they can keep a strong enough support team around him for all 3 tours, as that would require some of the others in Team Sky with grand tour ambitions dropping those ambitions to buy in on the process of fully supporting Froome for the whole calendar year

 

[huge]

I think that's impossible. It would mean a 4 months peak form along with all the stars correctly aligned.
But if'd be nice if he went totally nuts and tried.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

Nah it is crazy Froome isn't nr. 1, but give credit to van Avermaet for showing up the whole year, although some of the small Belgian races are giving way too many points.

Is Froomes season over apart from the TT in Bergen?

Don't think he's down for anything other than that TT, judging by his instagram live from a Madrid nightclub at 4am this morning I don't think much time on the bike the next few days!

 

[DNP-Old]

He's not even down for the TT it seems.

"I am definitely doing the world team time trial championships next Sunday but further than that it's probably time for me to put my feet up," he said.

 

[Ruby United]

Re:

OK Del, let's rephrase it as 'participate and be competitive in more than 3.5 WT races' (I'll give Cadel's race 0.5, and that's just because I'm generous). Point is, winning the World Tour should award riders that are competitive throughout the year - like Sagan, Valverde, etc. If Froome would like to win it, he'd have to focus on more than very few races - and that's how it should be IMO.

I agree with you that that's how it should be, but at the same time it is also true that the system is detrimental to climbers and GT specialists. Only riders who can also race one day races, such as Valverde, Purito, GVA and Sagan can win the WT rankings. Even Wiggins in his 2012 year (where he won the Tour, Olympics TT, Paris Nice, Tour of Romandy, Criterium du Dauphine, etc) didn't win it.

Whilst I think that it is fair because versatility and consistency should be rewarded, at the same time the winner of GT's get way too little points compared to some of the points dished out in several one day races.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

OK Del, let's rephrase it as 'participate and be competitive in more than 3.5 WT races' (I'll give Cadel's race 0.5, and that's just because I'm generous). Point is, winning the World Tour should award riders that are competitive throughout the year - like Sagan, Valverde, etc. If Froome would like to win it, he'd have to focus on more than very few races - and that's how it should be IMO.

I agree with you that that's how it should be, but at the same time it is also true that the system is detrimental to climbers and GT specialists. Only riders who can also race one day races, such as Valverde, Purito, GVA and Sagan can win the WT rankings. Even Wiggins in his 2012 year (where he won the Tour, Olympics TT, Paris Nice, Tour of Romandy, Criterium du Dauphine, etc) didn't win it.

Whilst I think that it is fair because versatility and consistency should be rewarded, at the same time the winner of GT's get way too little points compared to some of the points dished out in several one day races.

Wiggins got beaten by another GT rider

 

[wwabbit]

Re:

He's not even down for the TT it seems.

Pity, the profile looks good for him

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

He's not even down for the TT it seems.

Pity, the profile looks good for him

Yeah, I think it's kinda bull****. It's not like he's denying a possible winner a place.

 

[Bardamu]

Re: Re:

OK Del, let's rephrase it as 'participate and be competitive in more than 3.5 WT races' (I'll give Cadel's race 0.5, and that's just because I'm generous). Point is, winning the World Tour should award riders that are competitive throughout the year - like Sagan, Valverde, etc. If Froome would like to win it, he'd have to focus on more than very few races - and that's how it should be IMO.

I agree with you that that's how it should be, but at the same time it is also true that the system is detrimental to climbers and GT specialists. Only riders who can also race one day races, such as Valverde, Purito, GVA and Sagan can win the WT rankings. Even Wiggins in his 2012 year (where he won the Tour, Olympics TT, Paris Nice, Tour of Romandy, Criterium du Dauphine, etc) didn't win it.

Whilst I think that it is fair because versatility and consistency should be rewarded, at the same time the winner of GT's get way too little points compared to some of the points dished out in several one day races.

I believe the Olympics don't count for WT.

 

[Ruby United]

Re: Re:

OK Del, let's rephrase it as 'participate and be competitive in more than 3.5 WT races' (I'll give Cadel's race 0.5, and that's just because I'm generous). Point is, winning the World Tour should award riders that are competitive throughout the year - like Sagan, Valverde, etc. If Froome would like to win it, he'd have to focus on more than very few races - and that's how it should be IMO.

I agree with you that that's how it should be, but at the same time it is also true that the system is detrimental to climbers and GT specialists. Only riders who can also race one day races, such as Valverde, Purito, GVA and Sagan can win the WT rankings. Even Wiggins in his 2012 year (where he won the Tour, Olympics TT, Paris Nice, Tour of Romandy, Criterium du Dauphine, etc) didn't win it.

Whilst I think that it is fair because versatility and consistency should be rewarded, at the same time the winner of GT's get way too little points compared to some of the points dished out in several one day races.

Wiggins got beaten by another GT rider

You clearly didn't read my post properly.
I highlighted the bit concerned for you.

 

[Taxus4a]

He is the first rider to make the Tour-Vuelta double. Congrats!
As spanish, it is a pride a rider like him honoures the Vuelta that way, he even this time trained in altittude before la Vuelta.
Nice to heard him want to ride till 40. For sure he will get lot of important races, but people as Quintana, Landa or Doumoulin will be very difficult rivals.

 

[jsem94]

So Hinault is calling for him to do the Giro next year already. I actually agree.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

So Hinault is calling for him to do the Giro next year already. I actually agree.

He can wait for that, except a very good route for him as this year one.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re:

So Hinault is calling for him to do the Giro next year already. I actually agree.

I don't see Froome winning the Giro. He will have a chance next year, but I think he will go for a 5th Tour.

If he wins a 5th Tour, then he will go for a 6th, for the record. After that he would be 35 when he goes to the Giro.

If he doesn't win the Tour next year then he can try for the Giro at age 34. But a loss in the Tour would suggest some decline, which will have only increased by the following season. Froome isn't that far ahead of his opposition. He 'only' gained one minute on his rivals in the long time trial in the Vuelta. That means that even with 2 long time trials his advantage might only be 2-3 minutes (against riders not named Tom), and he cannot climb with the best forever.

But anyway, whatever Froome does next season, he'll be accused of taking the easy option. If he skips the Giro then some will be disappointed that he is playing it safe. If he does the Giro, then he is avoiding Dumoulin!

As for Froome being behind GVA on the points for this season

 

[Leinster]

Re: Re:

OK Del, let's rephrase it as 'participate and be competitive in more than 3.5 WT races' (I'll give Cadel's race 0.5, and that's just because I'm generous). Point is, winning the World Tour should award riders that are competitive throughout the year - like Sagan, Valverde, etc. If Froome would like to win it, he'd have to focus on more than very few races - and that's how it should be IMO.

I agree with you that that's how it should be, but at the same time it is also true that the system is detrimental to climbers and GT specialists. Only riders who can also race one day races, such as Valverde, Purito, GVA and Sagan can win the WT rankings. Even Wiggins in his 2012 year (where he won the Tour, Olympics TT, Paris Nice, Tour of Romandy, Criterium du Dauphine, etc) didn't win it.

Whilst I think that it is fair because versatility and consistency should be rewarded, at the same time the winner of GT's get way too little points compared to some of the points dished out in several one day races.

Wiggins got beaten by another GT rider

You clearly didn't read my post properly.
I highlighted the bit concerned for you.

3 of last year's top 5 were GT riders. Valverde finished 4th, presumably based significantly on the strength of his GT performances.

It's surely a good thing that the WT rewards riders who don't just specialize in one road racing discipline. Ok, it has been won by a lot of classics specialists in the past, but those classics riders tend to also pick up stage wins when they ride GTs, whereas a lot of GT riders tend to not ride classics at all.

 

[barmaher]

The big thing about aiming for the Giro next year is it gives him the chance to hold all three GT's at once. That would be a massive deal. Huge risk, but I would be surprised if they're not giving it serious consideration. The whole Giro circus starting in Israel would put many off.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

So Hinault is calling for him to do the Giro next year already. I actually agree.

I don't see Froome winning the Giro. He will have a chance next year, but I think he will go for a 5th Tour.

If he wins a 5th Tour, then he will go for a 6th, for the record. After that he would be 35 when he goes to the Giro.

If he doesn't win the Tour next year then he can try for the Giro at age 34. But a loss in the Tour would suggest some decline, which will have only increased by the following season. Froome isn't that far ahead of his opposition. He 'only' gained one minute on his rivals in the long time trial in the Vuelta. That means that even with 2 long time trials his advantage might only be 2-3 minutes (against riders not named Tom), and he cannot climb with the best forever.

But anyway, whatever Froome does next season, he'll be accused of taking the easy option. If he skips the Giro then some will be disappointed that he is playing it safe. If he does the Giro, then he is avoiding Dumoulin!

As for Froome being behind GVA on the points for this season

I agree he won't risk a possible fifth Tour and he likes riding the Vuelta. If he wins the Tour he would take a podium at the Vuelta anyway. He has already done the Tour/Vuelta double so that box is already ticked.

 

[DBotero]

I really don't care about Il Giro.The race definitely doesn't suit him at all because of the weather.Adding another TDF or Vuelta to his legacy would be amazing.
On another note that TT in Bergen is a chance of a lifetime and he should take it.His chances will be low to win it but is worth a try.

 

[Põhja Konn]

I'm quite sure he'll go all in for the 5th Tour win next year. Whether he will skip the Vuelta after that and does the Giro and Tour in 2019 probably depends on how he performs at the Tour 2018. How much stronger he will be in the Tour (compared to this year) due to only concentrating on it will determine whether he wins that race or not as it is very unlikely there will be such a low level Tour again next year.

Imo, he has been in slow decline in last year or two. Differences between 2015 and 16 can be explained away with having a bigger focus on Vuelta in 2016. On the other hand while the focus and build up was very similar in 2016 and 17, he was certainly weaker this year at both the Tour and the Vuelta. First week of the Vuelta muddied the waters somewhat, but the level he showed in 2nd and 3rd week was singificantly lower than last year.
All that without having the olympics in between

His own completeness as a rider and the strenght of his team has meant he has been able to hide and manage his decline better than most, specially those who depend on big climbing perfomances to win races. That's also the reason why he will be the biggest favourite at the Tour next year regardless of what he does or does not beforehand.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Looking back, I seriously think Froome would have done the Tour-Vuelta double back in 2015 if he hadn't crashed out, just to add crashing uphill to 'not having leadership', 'poor time trial', 'formigal', 'fatigue from tour' to his reasons for not winning the Vuelta in each of his previous participations

 

[Jspear]

 

[oldcrank]

Re: Re:

Congrats to Froome.

I have a question: Which rider has the most GT victories from age 33 onwards?

Joop Zoetemelk and Tony Rominger both had two, off the top of my head.

So, based off history we can say Froome's window is closing rapidly

I'd say looking at this years performances maybe 2 more years, so go all out for Tour number 5 next year and then I'd be surprised if he doesn't give the Giro a shot in 2019.

Well, would you rather win all three GTs or win an (officially) record-breaking number of Tours? If it were me I'd go for Tour-Vuelta in 2018 (but Vuelta as an afterthought, not like this season was seemingly planned), Tour 2019, and THEN Giro. Even if quite past his best he could win the Giro if the field and route are favourable to him

I totally agree with your proposed schedule. Maybe ride Vuelta 2018 as a SKY super-dom/plan B.
Then skipping Vuelta in 2019 to target TTT and maybe ITT at Yorkshire Worlds. Finally Giro and
Olympic ITT in 2020. But keep the Tour as the primary focus in both 2018 and 2019.