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Re:
Don't be surprised when he and Sky ruin the Giro for me by winning it.
staubsauger said:
Don't be surprised when he and Sky ruin the Giro for me by winning it.
Re: Re:
When they aren't in control is when they are most vulnerable. I recall Froome crashing after being isolated as a result of aggressive riding by his rivals. That is the only way to beat them, take them out of their comfort zone.
dacooley said:
When they aren't in control is when they are most vulnerable. I recall Froome crashing after being isolated as a result of aggressive riding by his rivals. That is the only way to beat them, take them out of their comfort zone.
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Yeah chaotic racing is not for Sky. When Sky are struggling on a stage with plenty of attacks and riders going everywhere Sky always look at their worst. Long range attacks give them more time to re-group but even those attacks with the right group going away has caused problems in the past. The 2017 Tour was the perfect race for them as a team probably even better in the Vuelta. Bardet's lack of a TT and Uran's lack of interest in attacking just played into the hands of Sky, they could lose some time to Bardet without being too bothered and Uran was never a serious threat while they were happy to see contador go up the road after losing early time in the Vuelta and Nibali wasn't good enough in the mountains to break Froome. Both scenarios worked out fine.
Angliru said:
Yeah chaotic racing is not for Sky. When Sky are struggling on a stage with plenty of attacks and riders going everywhere Sky always look at their worst. Long range attacks give them more time to re-group but even those attacks with the right group going away has caused problems in the past. The 2017 Tour was the perfect race for them as a team probably even better in the Vuelta. Bardet's lack of a TT and Uran's lack of interest in attacking just played into the hands of Sky, they could lose some time to Bardet without being too bothered and Uran was never a serious threat while they were happy to see contador go up the road after losing early time in the Vuelta and Nibali wasn't good enough in the mountains to break Froome. Both scenarios worked out fine.
The weather is certainly likely to be a significant factor. Froome's always been relatively better in hot weather, but there's unlikely to be much of that in the Giro. Even the generally warm and sunny weather throughout all 3 weeks seen this year is very much an excepcion.
The other factor is which opponents and when he faces. On his way to Tour-Vuelta double this year he had remarkable amount of good fortune in this regard. As I pointed during the Vuelta, he was much stronger during 2016 double attempt (at both GT-s) than this year, but had to face Quintana in top form in the Vuelta that year and lost out in the end.
In the end though the most important thing is the level Froome himself is able to reach. At this stage of his career it's no certainly anymore that he can replicate the performance levels of previous season during the next year. And to have a realistic chance for the double, he needs to reach a level he showed in 2016 at the very least. There's always an outside chance of course as he is very tough to beat, even when not at his best.
The other factor is which opponents and when he faces. On his way to Tour-Vuelta double this year he had remarkable amount of good fortune in this regard. As I pointed during the Vuelta, he was much stronger during 2016 double attempt (at both GT-s) than this year, but had to face Quintana in top form in the Vuelta that year and lost out in the end.
In the end though the most important thing is the level Froome himself is able to reach. At this stage of his career it's no certainly anymore that he can replicate the performance levels of previous season during the next year. And to have a realistic chance for the double, he needs to reach a level he showed in 2016 at the very least. There's always an outside chance of course as he is very tough to beat, even when not at his best.
voted the sportman of the year by ASJ
https://www.sportsjournalists.co.uk/awards-news/froome-cockroft-and-england-women-cricketers-take-sja-prizes/
https://www.sportsjournalists.co.uk/awards-news/froome-cockroft-and-england-women-cricketers-take-sja-prizes/
What's interesting to me is who Sky takes to the Giro to support Froome. If it's the A team, then they're weaker in the Tour, but have a much better chance at neutralizing attacks in Giro. For the other teams, then, it becomes a game of chess -- do you hope that Sky's best domestiques etc. are going to be overcooked for the Tour, and save some candles for the rare chance to snatch a victory from Sky. Then again, that might make it even easier for Froome to win the Giro by expending less energy...and around and around it must be going in the minds of the directors sportifs.
My feeling is that if Froome really wants to win the Giro, he probably will. I offer the Vuelta as an example of what he can do mentally when he isn't at 100 percent physically. Of course there are always wild cards like weather, and the large number of summit finishes might allow rivals to snatch a few seconds here and there. I predict Sky will push really hard to take the jersey on Aetna and hope to give Froome a cushion on Zoncolon. I don't think that kind of super steep climb suits him anymore. either way, I'm more excited for the Giro than ever.
My feeling is that if Froome really wants to win the Giro, he probably will. I offer the Vuelta as an example of what he can do mentally when he isn't at 100 percent physically. Of course there are always wild cards like weather, and the large number of summit finishes might allow rivals to snatch a few seconds here and there. I predict Sky will push really hard to take the jersey on Aetna and hope to give Froome a cushion on Zoncolon. I don't think that kind of super steep climb suits him anymore. either way, I'm more excited for the Giro than ever.
Re:
Giro: Moscon, Rosa, Henao, Henao, Elissonde, Knees, Puccio
and still leave
Poels, Thomas, Kwiatkowski, De La Cruz, Kiryienka, Stannard, Castroviejo for the Tour.
And I've not even mentioned Geo Hart, Lopez, Deignan, Golas, van Baarle and the doubtful Rowe and Intxausti
They could turn up with, for exampleBolder said:
Giro: Moscon, Rosa, Henao, Henao, Elissonde, Knees, Puccio
and still leave
Poels, Thomas, Kwiatkowski, De La Cruz, Kiryienka, Stannard, Castroviejo for the Tour.
And I've not even mentioned Geo Hart, Lopez, Deignan, Golas, van Baarle and the doubtful Rowe and Intxausti
Re: Re:
Apparently Sergio Henao said in the video that he will do the Giro
http://www.wielerflits.nl/nieuws/312095/sergio-henao-rijdt-de-giro.html
Parker said:
Apparently Sergio Henao said in the video that he will do the Giro
http://www.wielerflits.nl/nieuws/312095/sergio-henao-rijdt-de-giro.html
Re: Re:
Moscon is sure for the Tour. cobbles and TTT make him 100 % in France. and I look foward to his super performances
CTQ said:
Moscon is sure for the Tour. cobbles and TTT make him 100 % in France. and I look foward to his super performances
Re: Re:
it’s Parker’s choices, not mine. I would send Deignan to the Giro . He had a good one this year
pastronef said:
it’s Parker’s choices, not mine. I would send Deignan to the Giro . He had a good one this year
Re:
I think it depends on who turned up in the Giro (I mean showing up as a true real contender). Aru/Astana was Contador's stumbling block to deplete his energy. Dumoulin was Quintana's kryptonite. So if Aru/UEA can show up like 2015, he could be the troublemaker for Froome/Sky. But I think Aru isn't going to give too much trouble for Froome/sky. If Dumoulin shows up, on paper, he will be a tough cookie to crack for Froome. Landa? depends on his Movistar team. So far, Landa has been hyped so much, but he hasn't shown anything as far as winning GT. His most notable place was 3rd in the Giro while working for Aru. I'm not saying he won't, but until he can prove that he can handle 3 weeks w/o having bad luck or crash or illness, then I believe. He could potentially spell trouble for Froome. But with his ITT, Froome can take 2 minutes and hang in Zocolan with his yo-yo power meter tactic.
Even if Dumoulin shows up, I still don't think he can beat Froome. He might push Froome to dig deep. But that's about it. I just can't see him matches Froome in the climb. I also think Dumoulin will skip Giro and favor TDF. It's better for him to avoid a clash with Froome and maybe keep the hype that he is the only one who can challenge Froome a lot longer until he is truly ready. At this time, I don't see he is ready yet to face Froome/Sky. I hope I was wrong though..
Põhja Konn said:
I think it depends on who turned up in the Giro (I mean showing up as a true real contender). Aru/Astana was Contador's stumbling block to deplete his energy. Dumoulin was Quintana's kryptonite. So if Aru/UEA can show up like 2015, he could be the troublemaker for Froome/Sky. But I think Aru isn't going to give too much trouble for Froome/sky. If Dumoulin shows up, on paper, he will be a tough cookie to crack for Froome. Landa? depends on his Movistar team. So far, Landa has been hyped so much, but he hasn't shown anything as far as winning GT. His most notable place was 3rd in the Giro while working for Aru. I'm not saying he won't, but until he can prove that he can handle 3 weeks w/o having bad luck or crash or illness, then I believe. He could potentially spell trouble for Froome. But with his ITT, Froome can take 2 minutes and hang in Zocolan with his yo-yo power meter tactic.
Even if Dumoulin shows up, I still don't think he can beat Froome. He might push Froome to dig deep. But that's about it. I just can't see him matches Froome in the climb. I also think Dumoulin will skip Giro and favor TDF. It's better for him to avoid a clash with Froome and maybe keep the hype that he is the only one who can challenge Froome a lot longer until he is truly ready. At this time, I don't see he is ready yet to face Froome/Sky. I hope I was wrong though..
I think that Contador in 2011 could have accomplished it if he planned for it from the start. I don't like Froome but if he does this double that would be a very high individual and team effort that is deserved.
Assuming Froome is going to perform at the Giro the same way as in the Tour could be the wrong prediction.
Giro could be different in so many ways. So is difficult to say that he will beat Chaves, Aru, Landa, etc the same way he did at the Tour. I still think is an open race.
Giro could be different in so many ways. So is difficult to say that he will beat Chaves, Aru, Landa, etc the same way he did at the Tour. I still think is an open race.
Re: Re:
But with a harder route and worse team. I'm confident that Froome will be on both podiums.Red Rick said:
Well, whoever went for GC in 2011 Giro underperformed severely in the rest of 2011 (maybe expect Purito, but he was losing big time in every stage before he crashed out of GC in Vuelta). That Giro had a crushing effect on everyone, and this route is not even close to 2011 Giro. I fully expect Froome to fight for the win in both GTs.
Re:
nah... 2011 contador is on the same level as 2002 LA. 2013 froome wouldn't have a chanceburning said:
Re: Re:
Back that up with data and you've a case. Winning margins dont tell us how good the rider was. They just tell us how good/bad the rest of the competition was.
Show us how good Contador was. :razz:
Mere statements make little sense.portugal11 said:
Back that up with data and you've a case. Winning margins dont tell us how good the rider was. They just tell us how good/bad the rest of the competition was.
Show us how good Contador was. :razz:
If we are talking about LA's absolute peak, that was no question 2001. What he did on Alpe d' Huez was incredible. So while he was extremely good in 2002 as well, I'd say 2001 was just a half or even one level above. Im pretty sure LA said that himself. The opposition also was pretty lacklustre in 02.
As for Contador, Im torn between 09 and 11. I'd probably go with 2009 tho, still his Giro was amazing. There's no doubt Froome's peak was 2013 and 12/14/15/16/17 is pretty even IMO. No standout performances like in 2013, the real dominating ones, apart from PSM 2015, but still incredibly consistent. Otherwise you obviously don't do the double.
As for Contador, Im torn between 09 and 11. I'd probably go with 2009 tho, still his Giro was amazing. There's no doubt Froome's peak was 2013 and 12/14/15/16/17 is pretty even IMO. No standout performances like in 2013, the real dominating ones, apart from PSM 2015, but still incredibly consistent. Otherwise you obviously don't do the double.
About this whole double discussion, there is one thing I'm really not sure about. Do you think the additional week between giro and tour are a good or a bad thing. When Froome originally announced his decision I mostly heard people saying that the extra week might have been one of the reasons why Froome tries the double but then I also heard lots of people claiming the reason why the double has become so difficult to achieve is that the pause between the tours was one week longer than in the past. I really don't know a lot about training and peaking so I really have no idea what's true.
Re:
It won't be a bad thing but will an extra week give Froome any advantage for the Tour ? Possibly not. It would probably be more of a benefit if Froome had a really easy win in the Giro. But even when Contador won the 2011 Giro easily he still said he felt the fatigue quite a lot in the Tour.
Valv.Piti said:
It won't be a bad thing but will an extra week give Froome any advantage for the Tour ? Possibly not. It would probably be more of a benefit if Froome had a really easy win in the Giro. But even when Contador won the 2011 Giro easily he still said he felt the fatigue quite a lot in the Tour.
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