Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[red_flanders]

Yep I think today makes it very hard for him to make a case to go the Tour this year, maybe he could go Giro or Vuelta to get GT in his legs at least.

Indeed. Yet strangely enough, cyclingnews.com argues that Ineos should be more worried about Thomas' form. I guess their saying this assuming Froome will be of no help.

I'm not that worried. I predict a magical return to form by the time the Tour starts for Thomas.

 

[Escarabajo]

Ineos cannot worry about two riders, Froome and Thomas. Under these circumstances they would have to leave Froome behind. If Thomas was strong that would be a different scenario. I don't think that Ineos can gamble.

 

[tobydawq]

I predict a magical return to form by the time the Tour starts for Thomas.

What exactly is that supposed to mean?

 

[red_flanders]

What exactly is that supposed to mean?

I'm not sure what part is confusing.

 

[tobydawq]

I'm not sure what part is confusing.

The magical thing doesn't exactly sound like something that belongs in this part of the forum, honestly...

Also, why would he suddenly be two levels above what he is now? In 2018 he was consistently very strong throughout the year and won the Dauphiné with apparent ease. He maintained his form through to the Tour, there was nothing magical about that.

Last year, he was playing catch-up after his months of partying and never quite got there but he was very close. And he did already have a decent level two months before the Tour when he was third in Romandie. Nothing magical about that, either.

His general career path? Did it take him six years to go from being a boss at the track to win the Tour? Impressive, but not magical, even though people keep saying the opposite.

 

[red_flanders]

The magical thing doesn't exactly sound like something that belongs in this part of the forum, honestly...

Also, why would he suddenly be two levels above what he is now? In 2018 he was consistently very strong throughout the year and won the Dauphiné with apparent ease. He maintained his form through to the Tour, there was nothing magical about that.

Last year, he was playing catch-up after his months of partying and never quite got there but he was very close. And he did already have a decent level two months before the Tour when he was third in Romandie. Nothing magical about that, either.

His general career path? Did it take him six years to go from being a boss at the track to win the Tour? Impressive, but not magical, even though people keep saying the opposite.

You're reading too much into it. I've seen enough Tour prep to see top riders look like crap in the Dauphine and round out into incredible form by the time the Tour starts. Less of a delta this year, so maybe it won't be as dramatic, but I see Thomas as just rounding into form. Probably best not to assume bad faith.

 

[tobydawq]

You're reading too much into it. I've seen enough Tour prep to see top riders look like crap in the Dauphine and round out into incredible form by the time the Tour starts. Less of a delta this year, so maybe it won't be as dramatic, but I see Thomas as just rounding into form. Probably best not to assume bad faith.

I just haven't really seen it since Andy Schleck. Maybe Nibali in 2014 too, but then he won the Italian Nationals, so he showed some form before the Tour.

Actually, we usually know quite precisely what level the contenders have.

 

[Leinster]

I just haven't really seen it since Andy Schleck. Maybe Nibali in 2014 too, but then he won the Italian Nationals, so he showed some form before the Tour.

Actually, we usually know quite precisely what level the contenders have.

Nibali was 7th at 2:12 in the 2014 Dauphine.


Thomas is currently 28th at 7.36, and Froome 60th at 29.30, the same time gap as Castroviejo. This is not a normal show of form for 2 riders who are supposed to be Tour contenders.

 

[tobydawq]

Nibali was 7th at 2:12 in the 2014 Dauphine.


Thomas is currently 28th at 7.36, and Froome 60th at 29.30, the same time gap as Castroviejo. This is not a normal show of form for 2 riders who are supposed to be Tour contenders.

Okay, I actually thought Nibali had been worse. Then we really do need to go back to 2011, where Schleck couldn't keep up with Peter Sagan in the mountains in Tour de Suisse, yet was probably the best climber in the Tour a few weeks later.

 

[Leinster]

Okay, I actually thought Nibali had been worse. Then we really do need to go back to 2011, where Schleck couldn't keep up with Peter Sagan in the mountains in Tour de Suisse, yet was probably the best climber in the Tour a few weeks later.

19th at 18.48.

But Suisse has always been the Anti-Dauphine for Tour Form Indication. You want to win the Tour? Ride a good Dauphine, but not a good Suisse. (Bernal last year being the exception who wasn't supposed to even ride the Tour).

 

[tobydawq]

19th at 18.48.

But Suisse has always been the Anti-Dauphine for Tour Form Indication. You want to win the Tour? Ride a good Dauphine, but not a good Suisse. (Bernal last year being the exception who wasn't supposed to even ride the Tour).

PROVE IT!!!

No, I just don't really buy that. In the last years, most Tour contenders have ridden the Dauphiné, and logically, it doesn't make much sense that you have to be bad two weeks before the Tour in order to perform well there, but good three weeks before. At least not with the preparation the riders have today as opposed to the "magical" preparations of 20 years ago.

 

[Red Rick]

Nibali was 7th at 2:12 in the 2014 Dauphine.


Thomas is currently 28th at 7.36, and Froome 60th at 29.30, the same time gap as Castroviejo. This is not a normal show of form for 2 riders who are supposed to be Tour contenders.

Where was Thomas last year in Dauphine?

 

[Koronin]

Nibali was 7th at 2:12 in the 2014 Dauphine.


Thomas is currently 28th at 7.36, and Froome 60th at 29.30, the same time gap as Castroviejo. This is not a normal show of form for 2 riders who are supposed to be Tour contenders.

And here I thought Valverde was having a dreadful Duaphine. Thomas and Froome don't even get the excuse of living in a country that was under a full lock down and virtually confined to their homes for 2 months. I actually thought/expected Thomas to have better form than what he currently has. Froome's lack of form doesn't really surprise me due to the injury he had.

 

[tobydawq]

Where was Thomas last year in Dauphine?

He crashed out of TdS...

 

[Leinster]

PROVE IT!!!

No, I just don't really buy that. In the last years, most Tour contenders have ridden the Dauphiné, and logically, it doesn't make much sense that you have to be bad two weeks before the Tour in order to perform well there, but good three weeks before. At least not with the preparation the riders have today as opposed to the "magical" preparations of 20 years ago.

I am talking in generalisations, and accepted wisdoms will change down the years, but I think it's generally been accepted that for a GC rider, the 3 weeks from end of Dauphine to beginning of Tour have provided enough time to rest, but also train, for the Tour, whereas Suisse has just been that little too close to get it right. And you can track it in the race results all the way back to Bobet and Walkowiak(!).

 

[Leinster]

He crashed out of TdS...

But won the Dauphine in 2018.

 

[tobydawq]

But won the Dauphine in 2018.

Yes, and that was even four weeks before the Tour due to the distortion of the calendar that year.

 

[memyselfandI]

Calm down now, everybody's got a towel?

As you see now, Tour will be decided between Dumoulin, Thomas, Froome, Pinot and Yatesy.

Ineos does not try to shake the overall, they see JV is glowing white, there's no sense to try to shake them when they can't, they're not in peak themselves. Peaking is measured and controlled procedure.

If they overdo now, they lose Tour, if not they're in the game. And it looks like they know this, the way they turn off from the heat, they're not working how they do when in Tour under pressure.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Calm down now, everybody's got a towel?

As you see now, Tour will be decided between Dumoulin, Thomas, Froome, Pinot and Yatesy.

Ineos does not try to shake the overall, they see JV is glowing white, there's no sense to try to shake them when they can't, they're not in peak themselves. Peaking is measured and controlled procedure.

If they overdo now, they lose Tour, if not they're in the game. And it looks like they know this, the way they turn off from the heat, they're not working how they do when in Tour under pressure.

Right now JV is out Ineosing Team Ineos.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I quess Brailsford will have to dig a bit deeper into the marginal gains toolbox....

 

[Parker]

For those who are looking at the Dauphine for Tour form, remember that no-one who has won the Dauphine in August has ever come top ten in the Tour.

 

[ppanther92]

Okay, I actually thought Nibali had been worse. Then we really do need to go back to 2011, where Schleck couldn't keep up with Peter Sagan in the mountains in Tour de Suisse, yet was probably the best climber in the Tour a few weeks later.

I mean, Schleck still finished the TdS at place 19 and became 2nd on a mountain stage (behind Thomsas de Gendt) from a break. I may see Thomas doing similar things in his current form but Froome is just way way off. Actually I can see Thomas ride into good form but I fear due to the tight calender it will come too late.

 

[neevosh]

Froome uploaded his power data to Strava for stages 1 and 2, but not for stage 3. I'm guessing in order of most likely, he either wants to: hide a bad day, hide a good day, or just forgot to upload his ride.

 

[Koronin]

Froome uploaded his power data to Strava for stages 1 and 2, but not for stage 3. I'm guessing in order of most likely, he either wants to: hide a bad day, hide a good day, or just forgot to upload his ride.

It's possible the hotel doesn't have a good internet connection?

 

[Merckx index]

Get the race days in France and then hit the Vuelta hard

Yep I think today makes it very hard for him to make a case to go the Tour this year, maybe he could go Giro or Vuelta to get GT in his legs at least.

Froome is not the kind of rider who enters a GT just to get some miles in his legs. Realistic or not, he's thinking contending and winning. From that point of view, his order of preference presumably would be:

TDF - wants to win no. 5
Giro - a win would give him 2 or more of every GT, joining Hinault and Contador
Vuelta - doesn't need another one, but it adds to his GT wins, takes him past Indurain and Contador

There's only about two weeks between the end of the Tour and the beginning of the Giro, but if he only rides as a dom in the Tour, is allowed to rest on a lot of stages, he could show up for the Giro in pretty good shape. OTOH, I guess Ineos has promised Carapaz leadership role there (?), so unless Froome showed real strength at the Tour, I assume they wouldn't let him ride as leader or co-leader at the Giro. The Vuelta, starting a few weeks later, would also give him more time to get in shape, and after that accident, can't be too much time to recover. The Vuelta is also a crapshoot, as who will be there will depend somewhat on what happens in the Tour. Any TDF favorite who disappoints there will probably want to salvage his season in the Vuelta.