Chris Horner diagnosed with Blood clot

[Havetts]

Chris Horner has been diagnosed with a blood clot in his lungs.

Turns out, I have an updated injury list from the Tour crash – a broken nose, a fractured rib, something wrong with my calf and ankle, a splitting headache, and … a blood clot in my lung. And no, that’s never a good thing!"

Source: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/horner-diagnosed-with-blood-clot


So, I doubt I'm the only one who thinks that this might have something to do with doping?

 

[ulrikmm]

Chris Horner has been diagnosed with a blood clot in his lungs.



Source: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/horner-diagnosed-with-blood-clot


So, I doubt I'm the only one who thinks that this might have something to do with doping?

It is guite common to get venous clots in the leg after immobilization due to injury. The clots then migrate through the veins to the lungs and can cause death/fainting/shortness of breath. The outcome largely depends of the size of clot entering the lung vessels, and how central the obstruction of the circulation is.

Venous thromboembolism is more common in the elderly (such as Horner )

 

[function]

So, I doubt I'm the only one who thinks that this might have something to do with doping?

Or... Considering the timing, it might be due to the broken nose, concussion, fractured rib and leg haematoma from the accident he was in? No that's too logical, let's assume doping. Discuss!

 

[Oldman]

I saw him hobbling around at the Cascade Classic in Bend, Oregon two weekends ago. The crash messed him up bigtime so I doubt anything he may have done to prepare for the Tour had anything to do with this. His body was pretty beat up.

 

[egtalbot]

Or... Considering the timing, it might be due to the broken nose, concussion, fractured rib and leg haematoma from the accident he was in? No that's too logical, let's assume doping. Discuss!

LOL! We could just see what Sir William of Occam thinks. . .

 

[Havetts]

I wasnt aware that blood clots in the legs could cause blood clots in the lungs, although it comes at a timing it might seem "logic", it also feels somewhat awkward for me seeing Horner has the season of his life when hes 39 y/o.

Or... Considering the timing, it might be due to the broken nose, concussion, fractured rib and leg haematoma from the accident he was in? No that's too logical, let's assume doping. Discuss!

While it may have been quite premature to step into the clinic I have no idea where else to post this, maybe the final question about doping wasnt right but then again if you look at what Horner has done this season it can be justified.

Sorry if people felt this thread is wrong .

 

[krebs303]

The most serious complication of a DVT is that the clot could dislodge and travel to the lungs, which is called a pulmonary embolism (PE)

I did a paper on Deep Vein Thrombosis in school. It seems to effect Triathletes a lo as I remember. very serious condition

 

[ustabe]

The most serious complication of a DVT is that the clot could dislodge and travel to the lungs, which is called a pulmonary embolism (PE)

I did a paper on Deep Vein Thrombosis in school. It seems to effect Triathletes a lo as I remember. very serious condition

Thank you for the authoritative and clear explanation. You certainly said it better than I could.

Now on to the next witch hunt.

 

[krebs303]

Looking further into it EPO use can increase risk. just quick from Wikipedia

"According to Virchow's triad, venous thrombosis occurs via three mechanisms: decreased flow rate of the blood, damage to the blood vessel wall and an increased tendency of the blood to clot (hypercoagulability). Several medical conditions can lead to DVT, such as compression of the veins, physical trauma, cancer, infections, certain inflammatory diseases and specific conditions such as stroke, heart failure or nephrotic syndrome. There are several factors which can increase a person's risk for DVT, including surgery, hospitalization, immobilization (such as when orthopedic casts are used, or during long-haul flights, leading to traveller's thrombosis), smoking, obesity, age, certain drugs (such as estrogen, or erythropoietin) and inborn tendencies to form clots known as thrombophilia"

So choose a side and have at it!

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Before I can know for sure whether or not Horner is a doper, I will wait for blackcat to analyze the shape of his head and jaw. The personality profilers from the BMC thread should also weigh in with their opinion.

No wonder this place has a reputation for being a joke.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Deep vein thrombosis was reported in a couple of Italian racing cyclists back in the late 1990s, IIRC. EPO use is a possible cause and/or contributing factor. Injury as Horner suffered can also lead to pulmonary embolisms. Could injury combined with thicker blood from either EPO use of autologus blood transfusions and their residual effect two or three weeks post Tour be a cause? I would think so, but there is no way of knowing the etiology of Horner's clot unless he's brought before the Grand Jury to testify.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Before I can know for sure whether or not Horner is a doper, I will wait for blackcat to analyze the shape of his head and jaw. The personality profilers from the BMC thread should also weigh in with their opinion.

No wonder this place has a reputation for being a joke.

I disagree. The joke of a place isn't here. The joke is Usenet, rec.bicycles.racing
There's talk of renaming it rec.bicycles.Fred

 

[IzzyStradlin]

Almost 7 w/kg at Cali.....and now look where we're at.

Bruyneel taking short cuts these days?

I really think Horner would have won the Tour this year....so relieved when he crashed out.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Deep vein thrombosis was reported in a couple of Italian racing cyclists back in the late 1990s, IIRC. EPO use is a possible cause and/or contributing factor.

I recall this too.

Injury as Horner suffered can also lead to pulmonary embolisms. Could injury combined with thicker blood from either EPO use of autologus blood transfusions and their residual effect two or three weeks post Tour be a cause? I would think so, but there is no way of knowing the etiology of Horner's clot unless he's brought before the Grand Jury to testify.

To be fair to Horner, he's certainly not the first 'old guy' to do well at Grand Tours. IMHO, some consideration needs to be given to the mental enthusiasm and sacrifice required to perform at his level. Most guys just don't want to put in the work after being at it for so long. Horner seems to be an exception.

There's lots of smoke in Horner's case right now, but no obvious fire. (7W/kg needs more examination) We can't rely on testing as we know career dopers with no positives. We can't rely on USAC either given who's in charge over there. Certainly can't rely on the UCI either. I would guess that Horner would be a winner at the double-secret popularity contest they run over at the UCI vs. some younger doping positives.

Calling this forum a joke, isn't right. Some people are really trying to keep the topic relevant and approximate reality despite the best efforts of some trolls.

 

[ulrikmm]

Intercontinental flights is a major risk factor too, far more common than increased blood viscosity due to high hematocrite. I suppose Horner flew back to the states

Back in the nineties, riders would take anticoagulation injections, and get up in the night to exercise in order to prevent blood clotting. But that was before the current hematocrite limits.

 

[Master50]

I recall this too.




To be fair to Horner, he's certainly not the first 'old guy' to do well at Grand Tours. IMHO, some consideration needs to be given to the mental enthusiasm and sacrifice required to perform at his level. Most guys just don't want to put in the work after being at it for so long. Horner seems to be an exception.

There's lots of smoke in Horner's case right now, but no obvious fire. (7W/kg needs more examination) We can't rely on testing as we know career dopers with no positives. We can't rely on USAC either given who's in charge over there. Certainly can't rely on the UCI either. I would guess that Horner would be a winner at the double-secret popularity contest they run over at the UCI vs. some younger doping positives.

Calling this forum a joke, isn't right. Some people are really trying to keep the topic relevant and approximate reality despite the best efforts of some trolls.

The simple fact that this thread and so many threads about a riders health or performance are instantly shifted to doping threads stands in contradiction to the credibility of these threads. There is a certain segment of this forum are a joke and rarely post anywhere but the clinic. They rarely miss an opportunity to turn any post to a doping post. Maybe the entire forum has credibility. Certainly Babes on Bikes has caused me to check every update over the 65 or more pages (50 per page). The clinic is a joke and hardly an threads in are credible or would stand up to scrutiny.

What is so hard to see a thread about a blood clot and not be more concerned that mr. Horner survives it without instantly assuming that accident couldn't have caused a bruise and clots.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

The simple fact that this thread and so many threads about a riders health or performance are instantly shifted to doping threads stands in contradiction to the credibility of these threads. There is a certain segment of this forum are a joke and rarely post anywhere but the clinic. They rarely miss an opportunity to turn any post to a doping post. Maybe the entire forum has credibility. Certainly Babes on Bikes has caused me to check every update over the 65 or more pages (50 per page). The clinic is a joke and hardly an threads in are credible or would stand up to scrutiny.

What is so hard to see a thread about a blood clot and not be more concerned that mr. Horner survives it without instantly assuming that accident couldn't have caused a bruise and clots.

Maybe the fact that Horner and Levi (the Bobbleheads from that funny video) ride on the same team and have ridden with the biggest doper of all time has something to do with the cynicism regarding the guy? Of course we all hope he recovers and does well. You can't subpoena a corpse to a trial.

 

[hektoren]

Common side-effect of juicing up on beetroot. Any and every Hog rider is dirty until proven otherwise IMO.

 

[DirtyWorks]

What is so hard to see a thread about a blood clot and not be more concerned that mr. Horner survives it without instantly assuming that accident couldn't have caused a bruise and clots.

No one wants harm to come to the guy. No one. It's still okay to examine what little facts are available regarding his likelihood of doping.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Embolism post-injury is the same thing that killed Swedish racecar driver Ronnie Peterson back in 1978.

While we can certainly draw conclusions and 'connect the dots' vis-à-vis the increased likelihood of blood clots after EPO use (see the anecdotal stories about the likes of Riis) and Horner's preposterous late-career blossoming, we should at least acknowledge that this is something that can and does happen entirely independent of doping.

 

[davestoller]

Really poor taste, to put this in the clinic, when the guy is really ill.

Here is the breakdown:
1. Trauma, a leading cause of deep venous thrombosis, particularly in the lower extremity
2. We know he had a huge hematoma in his calf by his and others accounts--which would have compressed the venous return (and hid the swelling from the DVT) rendering that leg much more prone to DVT
3. Dehydration: from the bike race
4. Immobilization--because of the head injury, he wasnt allowed to move for a couple of days. After release, he was too sore to move much
5. Followed immediately by Trans-Atlantic flight

<<The causes for pulmonary embolism are multifactorial and are not readily apparent in many cases. The causes described in the literature include the following:

<<Venous stasis
Hypercoagulable states
<<Immobilization
<<Surgery and trauma
Pregnancy
Oral contraceptives and estrogen replacement
Malignancy
<<Hereditary factors
Acute medical illness

Venous stasis
Venous stasis leads to accumulation of platelets and thrombin in veins. Increased viscosity may occur due to polycythemia and dehydration, immobility, raised venous pressure in cardiac failure, or compression of a vein by a tumor.

Hypercoagulable states
The complex and delicate balance between coagulation and anticoagulation is altered by many diseases, by obesity, or by trauma. It can also occur after surgery.

Concomitant hypercoagulability may be present in disease states where prolonged venous stasis or injury to veins occurs.


Immobilization
Immobilization leads to local venous stasis by accumulation of clotting factors and fibrin, resulting in thrombus formation. The risk of pulmonary embolism increases with prolonged bed rest or immobilization of a limb in a cast.

In the Prospective Investigation of Pulmonary Embolism Diagnosis II (PIOPED II) study, immobilization (usually because of surgery) was the risk factor most commonly found in patients with pulmonary embolism.

Surgery and trauma
A prospective study by Geerts and colleagues indicated that major trauma was associated with a 58% incidence of DVT in the lower extremities and an 18% incidence in proximal veins.[7]

Surgical and accidental traumas predispose patients to venous thromboembolism by activating clotting factors and causing immobility. Pulmonary embolism may account for 15% of all postoperative deaths. Leg amputations and hip, pelvic, and spinal surgery are associated with the highest risk.

Fractures of the femur and tibia are associated with the highest risk of fracture-related pulmonary embolism, followed by pelvic, spinal, and other fractures. Severe burns also carry a high risk of DVT or pulmonary embolism.

 

[pedaling squares]

I disagree that this thread was created in poor taste. There is science linking blood clots to EPO and history linking EPO to cycling, so I can understand why someone would want to discuss that possibility. This thread is an opportunity for knowledgeable people to post information about why this illness is likely linked to the crash, and not to EPO use. That's the kind of discussion about doping that should occur here and the forum is better off for it. The OP hasn't dumped on Chris Horner and nobody is making light of or celebrating his illness.

My own thoughts when I read the article were not related to doping, but simply that the crash was even more serious than I had realized. I don't know the science linking EPO and blood clots in detail, but I assumed that it was more frequent in cyclists when the dosage of EPO was higher. I wish Chris Horner a complete and speedy recovery, and yes I thought and still think that his performance in May was highly suspicious and have no hesitation in saying so despite his illness.

 

[skippy]

Suffered my second bout of P.Embolisms in Feb this year (see my blog )!

Anyone in the mushrom farm think that i use or can afford to use "super charging ( Clinic's psuedenym)" ?

Facts of life :Chris flew home less than a week after his crash ! He suffered a variety of injuries that a MRI scan did not pick up , BUT was it full or localised scan and were the attending "Medical Staff " aware that he was likely to be flying log distance ? Another item i am wondierng about is whether he used " Compression Tights " during the flight ?

Several people should be ASHAMED of their comments in the clinic and they certainly dimish those others who provide actual informati rather than scuttlebutt !

Will be sending Chris a link to my blog entries as there are several links for respected sources of Info that he may wish to peruse and it would be useful to those shooting from the hip to take a look also as they probably look ridiculous to their friends as they wander around with a foot in their mouth !

 

[joe_papp]

In 2003 when I crashed and broke my knee, I developed three blood clots in my lower legs during a 3-week hospital stay, and had been using EPO prior to the crash.

 

[bhilden]

A friend of mine went in for routine knee surgery. After the surgery he developed blood clots and had to take blood thinners for several years. My friend was not taking EPO.