Teams & Riders Cian Uijtdebroeks - From the wetlands to the top of cycling

[CyclistAbi]

So basically Visma is bullying Bora. To give them Cian for free or at best 100k. So when Bora will be bullying Visma on the road. That to some extent can then be forgiven.

 

[AmRacer]

So basically Visma is bullying Bora. To give them Cian for free or at best 100k. So when Bora will be bullying Visma on the road. That to some extent can then be forgiven.

No. no, no, yes maybe.
Visma bullied Rogla at the Vuelta.
So Rogla left for Bora.
But in the meantime, Bora bullied Cian at te Vuelta.
So Cian left, for Visma.

 

[CyclistAbi]

No. no, no, yes maby.
Visma bullied Rogla at the Vuelta.
So Rogla left for Bora.
But in the meantime, Bora bullied Cian at te Vuelta.
So Cian left, for Visma.

Yeah but Bora paid the compensation. Will Visma return that compensation if UCI sides with them?

 

[CyclistAbi]

If UCI to side with Bora, no grounds for contract terminations and hence Cian registered to ride for Bora in 2024 season. Then Visma could i guess take this to court and claim that Cian has signed for them and has an existing contract with Visma. But in this case in my opinion 2024 season is lost for Cian. Regardless of the outcome of the court case, sometime in the future. We'll see.

 

[AmRacer]

Yeah but Bora paid the compensation. Will Visma return the compensation if UCI sides with them?

UCI will bully either Bora or Visma.
To be continued, next season.

 

[CyclistAbi]

UCI will bully either Bora or Visma.
To be continued, next season.

UCI indeed can get sued too, for their decision. Lawyers forming their own peloton.

 

[AmRacer]

UCI indeed can get sued too, for their decision. Lawyers forming their own peloton.

Thst would be somthing,

 

[CyclistAbi]

All in all the thing that is baffling the most, to me, is on why Visma isn't prepared to pay one million for Cian. Or in worst case to wait a year and sign him for free. There must be something else here. Especially considering how damaging to reputation this saga is. For all parties involved.

 

[Salvarani]

All in all the thing that is baffling the most, to me, is on why Visma isn't prepared to pay one million for Cian. Or in worst case to wait a year and sign him for free. There must be something else here. Especially considering how damaging to reputation this saga is. For all parties involved.

Yeah, exactly. We dont have all the information, as been said.

Yet you been trying to put two and two together for days now.

 

[Volderke]

All in all the thing that is baffling the most, to me, is on why Visma isn't prepared to pay one million for Cian. Or in worst case to wait a year and sign him for free. There must be something else here. Especially considering how damaging to reputation this saga is. For all parties involved.

So it's baffling. Why Visma doesn't want to pay one million. Why is that. Is it because you think they should. Maybe there is something else here. Those are your words. You're going in circles for days in a row. With all your comments in this topic. Maybe you should wait and see. It could be better. For all parties involved.
Point finale.

 

[CyclistAbi]

You are right guys. Thank you for reminding me of that. I heard enough and it's time to make my final decision. Regardless of the outcome, UCI, courts ... i am with Bora here. I mean Visma is winning 3 GTs per year, most of the stage races, have money and superstars ... They don't desperately need another talented kid. So send Cian back home and get him for free next year. Or wire a million and it's settled. For accommodation of your King at Bora and his Tour siege. In my opinion Cian would benefit the most anyway, learning from Rogla and Jonas. And considering Rogla is quite a muscular guy, Cian in my opinion wouldn't be bullied under his wing.

Anyway. That is that from my side and all the best wishes to all involved. In the end we will all manage somehow. Regardless of the outcome. As this are still more or less first world problems. Good luck guys and aim for the win.

 

[joseph89]

A transfer is therefore prohibited according to UCI rules. However, according to insiders, the 20-year-old Belgian would have used the '78 Act, a Belgian law from 1978 that applies to top athletes. Delicate.

This law stipulates that paid athletes have the option to prematurely and unilaterally terminate a contract of a certain duration, provided that the athlete pays compensation in return to the entity to which he or she is affiliated. This compensation is equal to the salary to be received by the athlete from the moment the contract is terminated until the actual end date of the commitment. In the case of Uijtdebroeks, this is thirteen months. “You mainly see this law in football, where FIFA has banned it,” Youri explains.

Football players who use it to move abroad will receive a ban from FIFA. So you actually only see it among footballers who move within Belgium, although the clubs there now also have a gentlemen's agreement that they will not buy players who make use of that law. The law is often used as a means of pressure to sign an improved contract or to force a transfer.

Although he is a Belgian employee, he is employed by a German team and an Austrian paying agent.” Youri responds: “That makes it so interesting, also from a legal perspective. To what extent does a Belgian law influence the labor law that applies in Austria? A very strange situation could potentially arise there. The only point is: what power still lies with the UCI in this case?”

According to Youri, the cycling association has its back against the wall and is under heavy pressure. “And they can't do anything about that. But if it now turns out that EU regulations or national legislation are leading compared to the UCI regulations, what are the rules worth? What are contracts worth then? If Uijtdebroeks' transfer takes place in accordance with the legal process, it will set a precedent for a transfer market in cycling. A number of riders' agents are therefore following this matter closely. The transfer could have far-reaching consequences.”

‘UCI staat in zaak-Uijtdebroeks volledig onder druk: schept transfer precedent?’

Podcast Het houdt de gemoederen de laatste dagen enorm bezig: de overgang van Cian Uijtdebroeks naar Jumbo-Visma. Maar zijn vorige (of huidige ploeg?) BORA-hansgrohe is het totaal niet eens met de gang van zaken. Ook de UCI buigt zich over de kwestie en zonder dat zij er iets aan kunnen doen...

www.wielerflits.nl

 

[Rob5091]

wire a million and it's settled.

What I would expect to happen, regardless of what one thinks about the people involved.

 

[Berniece]

Why should anyone refrain from making their own race because a teammate currently sits in 7th place. What have we come to.

Because it was only to surpass his teammate, it's not like he could get to the 6th place. So you are basically attacking your teammate. Or you also think that Kuss should have finished third, and everyone at Visma should have free reign and just race their own race?

 

[scribers]

It's also very possible for them to lose positions if they do battle on the road with one another.

 

[scribers]

A transfer is therefore prohibited according to UCI rules. However, according to insiders, the 20-year-old Belgian would have used the '78 Act, a Belgian law from 1978 that applies to top athletes. Delicate.

This law stipulates that paid athletes have the option to prematurely and unilaterally terminate a contract of a certain duration, provided that the athlete pays compensation in return to the entity to which he or she is affiliated. This compensation is equal to the salary to be received by the athlete from the moment the contract is terminated until the actual end date of the commitment. In the case of Uijtdebroeks, this is thirteen months. “You mainly see this law in football, where FIFA has banned it,” Youri explains.

Football players who use it to move abroad will receive a ban from FIFA. So you actually only see it among footballers who move within Belgium, although the clubs there now also have a gentlemen's agreement that they will not buy players who make use of that law. The law is often used as a means of pressure to sign an improved contract or to force a transfer.

Although he is a Belgian employee, he is employed by a German team and an Austrian paying agent.” Youri responds: “That makes it so interesting, also from a legal perspective. To what extent does a Belgian law influence the labor law that applies in Austria? A very strange situation could potentially arise there. The only point is: what power still lies with the UCI in this case?”

According to Youri, the cycling association has its back against the wall and is under heavy pressure. “And they can't do anything about that. But if it now turns out that EU regulations or national legislation are leading compared to the UCI regulations, what are the rules worth? What are contracts worth then? If Uijtdebroeks' transfer takes place in accordance with the legal process, it will set a precedent for a transfer market in cycling. A number of riders' agents are therefore following this matter closely. The transfer could have far-reaching consequences.”

‘UCI staat in zaak-Uijtdebroeks volledig onder druk: schept transfer precedent?’

Podcast Het houdt de gemoederen de laatste dagen enorm bezig: de overgang van Cian Uijtdebroeks naar Jumbo-Visma. Maar zijn vorige (of huidige ploeg?) BORA-hansgrohe is het totaal niet eens met de gang van zaken. Ook de UCI buigt zich over de kwestie en zonder dat zij er iets aan kunnen doen...

www.wielerflits.nl

Cian lives in Belgium, according to Bruyneel. suggesting only the laws of Belgium apply to his employment contract.

 

[Salvarani]

What has a Belgian law got to do with a German team, an Austrian paying agent and an international governing body based in Switzerland? Doesn't scream Belgian court jurisdiction to me.

Where does he pay taxes?

Where is he a citizens?

Which laws does he fall under, when it comes to his rights?

 

[AmRacer]

A transfer is therefore prohibited according to UCI rules. However, according to insiders, the 20-year-old Belgian would have used the '78 Act, a Belgian law from 1978 that applies to top athletes. Delicate.

This law stipulates that paid athletes have the option to prematurely and unilaterally terminate a contract of a certain duration, provided that the athlete pays compensation in return to the entity to which he or she is affiliated. This compensation is equal to the salary to be received by the athlete from the moment the contract is terminated until the actual end date of the commitment. In the case of Uijtdebroeks, this is thirteen months. “You mainly see this law in football, where FIFA has banned it,” Youri explains.

Football players who use it to move abroad will receive a ban from FIFA. So you actually only see it among footballers who move within Belgium, although the clubs there now also have a gentlemen's agreement that they will not buy players who make use of that law. The law is often used as a means of pressure to sign an improved contract or to force a transfer.

Although he is a Belgian employee, he is employed by a German team and an Austrian paying agent.” Youri responds: “That makes it so interesting, also from a legal perspective. To what extent does a Belgian law influence the labor law that applies in Austria? A very strange situation could potentially arise there. The only point is: what power still lies with the UCI in this case?”

According to Youri, the cycling association has its back against the wall and is under heavy pressure. “And they can't do anything about that. But if it now turns out that EU regulations or national legislation are leading compared to the UCI regulations, what are the rules worth? What are contracts worth then? If Uijtdebroeks' transfer takes place in accordance with the legal process, it will set a precedent for a transfer market in cycling. A number of riders' agents are therefore following this matter closely. The transfer could have far-reaching consequences.”

‘UCI staat in zaak-Uijtdebroeks volledig onder druk: schept transfer precedent?’

Podcast Het houdt de gemoederen de laatste dagen enorm bezig: de overgang van Cian Uijtdebroeks naar Jumbo-Visma. Maar zijn vorige (of huidige ploeg?) BORA-hansgrohe is het totaal niet eens met de gang van zaken. Ook de UCI buigt zich over de kwestie en zonder dat zij er iets aan kunnen doen...

www.wielerflits.nl

Is Belgian law applicable where Bora has its jurisdiction?

 

[hrotha]

Because it was only to surpass his teammate, it's not like he could get to the 6th place. So you are basically attacking your teammate. Or you also think that Kuss should have finished third, and everyone at Visma should have free reign and just race their own race?

Regardless of your stance on whether all three Visma riders should have been allowed to race for the win, it's clearly not comparable. That was about the overall victory, not about finishing 7th. I'm ok with "basically attacking your teammate" in the latter case, in no small part because the team is not taking any real risk by allowing riders to race for themselves

 

[Berniece]

Regardless of your stance on whether all three Visma riders should have been allowed to race for the win, it's clearly not comparable. That was about the overall victory, not about finishing 7th. I'm ok with "basically attacking your teammate" in the latter case, in no small part because the team is not taking any real risk by allowing riders to race for themselves

It would make more sense in case of the victory than place 7. Even more so if the other person isn't aware about this, it's your teammate. It's super weird that you try to finish before him, and only him, without like a joking rivalry at the dinner table. This was really behind his back, trying to surpass him. Now riders also have to look out for their teammates?

 

[AmRacer]

It would make more sense in case of the victory than place 7. Even more so if the other person isn't aware about this, it's your teammate. It's super weird that you try to finish before him, and only him, without like a joking rivalry at the dinner table. This was really behind his back, trying to surpass him. Now riders also have to look out for their teammates?

Movistar knows something about that.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Thanks for sharing that @joseph89. There are always some specifics indeed. Legal systems and their practice. Likely hence ATM nobody really knows. On how this will turn out. In my opinion and in regards to 2024 season Cian wouldn't try to terminate his contract, on basis of misconduct and in front of UCI commission. That is if Cian, his agent and Visma would believe they can just sign a contract and for UCI to automatically register Cian to ride for Visma in 2024. So based on UCI rules in my opinion, unless misconduct is proven and the contract with Bora is terminated, Bora has an upper hand here.

After of course Visma or Cian can sue on regular courts. Claiming the (local) law is on their side and trying to prove that. But likely that would take years. For example Cian can even sue his employee Bora, due to alleged misconduct, at the regular court. If he choses so. Not related to any transfers or things like that. Best indeed to now wait and see as the decision that will be made in December by UCI. As that is the decision that will stick for the 2024 season. Beyond that no contracts are involved anyway.

 

[CyclistAbi]

UCI can then i guess always claim that legal status of the rider is pending and for Cian not to be registered to ride for any team in the 2024 season. But lets hope it doesn't come down to that. So UCI should chose Bora or Visma, to set standard for such disputes and after, if desired, let the teams to decide on local courts. If UCI can or can't do that. But that will obviously take years. Anyway. The detail @joseph89 provided was interesting to comment about. As for the rest. They will manage just fine.

 

[Tim Cahill]

The big hope for us as fans is that all this ill-feeling in transferred onto the road, maybe some unnecessary chasing, spite-attacks or even a punch-up if we are really lucky.

 

[CyclistAbi]

The big hope for us as fans is that all this ill-feeling in transferred onto the road, maybe some unnecessary chasing, spite-attacks or even a punch-up if we are really lucky.

In between Denk and Plugge? Tour de Managers? The Big Boss Tour?