Teams & Riders Cian Uijtdebroeks - From the wetlands to the top of cycling

[Elos Anjos]

Bosman vibes with this case. Football in Europe got a lot of money after it but it also turned into a gigantic money laundry scheme for millionaires with questionable businesses and entailed a lot of human traffic.

I guess when one belgian kid cries he wants to take the whole world with it.

 

[scribers]

Don’t know if mentioned already. Nice off season discussion this has become. But bruyneel podcast out. Says Belgian law very permissive for allowing employees to break contracts. Says both of his parents are lawyers. Thinks the cost of buyout will not be expensive if necessary. And that Cian undoubtedly will ride for visma lab next year.

 

[Filippo_3467]

I really hope he doesn't race next year and also receives no pay. That would be the right lesson imo for him.

Everything about what happened is a joke. Including making the allegations public via this so called "journalist" who behaved completely erratic and unprofessional when he brought them up the first time. Probably paid by Jumbo.

It would be a scandal if this contract termination would be deemed valid. Then you can't make contracts anymore because everyone can leave his team at anytime.

 

[Lequack]

Don’t know if mentioned already. Nice off season discussion this has become. But bruyneel podcast out. Says Belgian law very permissive for allowing employees to break contracts. Says both of his parents are lawyers. Thinks the cost of buyout will not be expensive if necessary. And that Cian undoubtedly will ride for visma lab next year.

Interview with Bruyeneel

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyF3Zijx214

 

[scribers]

Bruyneel also says fear not, this is not a dangerous precedent. High quality riders, with the sums they are paid, do not so easily move from team to team.

 

[Berniece]

Everything about what happened is a joke. Including making the allegations public via this so called "journalist" who behaved completely erratic and unprofessional when he brought them up the first time. Probably paid by Jumbo.

Can you back anything up or you are just lying? I've listened to Thijs Zonneveld multiple times, and I wouldn't call him erratic, unprofessional, or paid of by Jumbo. So you better back this up with facts.

 

[Rackham]

Bruyneel also says fear not, this is not a dangerous precedent. High quality riders, with the sums they are paid, do not so easily move from team to team.

It would be nice to read some 'expert' opinions regarding the contract situation... which aren't Belgian or Dutch. It seems like everything is settled, he'll sign for Visma easy-peasy lemon squeezy.

...

That's why he's invoking bullying & the UCI hasn't approved yet.

 

[scribers]

Bruyneel cautions we do not know the claims being made for the employment contract termination. As there are several typical claims made for the scenario.

 

[Salvarani]

It would be nice to read some 'expert' opinions regarding the contract situation... which aren't Belgian or Dutch. It seems like everything is settled, he'll sign for Visma easy-peasy lemon squeezy.

...

That's why he's invoking bullying & the UCI hasn't approved yet.

Would seem pretty rash if they made a decision in a day or two, dont you think?

Most likely they will want to make their due diligence or at least make it appear that way.

Probably talks going on behind the scenes with all parties involved to reach a solution everyone can live with. Nobody will be entirely happy about all this, but it will be what it will be.

 

[Lequack]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJR1H5tf5wE

 

[Fantastico]

Don’t know if mentioned already. Nice off season discussion this has become. But bruyneel podcast out. Says Belgian law very permissive for allowing employees to break contracts.

I don't know how contracts in cycling are set up. Does he have a German work contract because he rides for a team located in Germany (that would make Belgian contract law pretty much irrelevant for his case) or are riders' contracts related to their personal residence? I would assume the latter. But does anyone know more about that?

 

[scribers]

I don't know how contracts in cycling are set up. Does he have a German work contract because he rides for a team located in Germany (that would make Belgian contract law pretty much irrelevant for his case) or are riders' contracts related to their personal residence? I would assume the latter. But does anyone know more about that?

Okay. But bruyneel knows how they are set up and the civil matter is Belgian

 

[Fantastico]

Okay. But bruyneel knows how they are set up and the civil matter is Belgian

I didn't want to discredit what Bruyneel said. I'm just interested how this is handled in general.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Unless both teams reach an agreement before, i find that less likely, then UCI made it perfectly clear, until UCI makes a decision, there was no transfer at play. So best to wait for that decision first (December). Decision to be made on basis of if misconduct can be proven or not. And for that to be basis of contract termination or not.

The rest, AFAIK, doesn't play any meaningful role ATM.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I can not see the UCI backing Bora as Cian does not want to ride for them and it seems Bora are happy to see him go for a price.

Why? On the contrary i feel that UCI has no other option here, then to back Bora.

P.S. Unless some severe misconduct can be proven.

 

[CyclistAbi]

We use that word as well, but I guess thats where it comes from. It is a borrowed word. You learn something new every day.

Did you pay compensation? Or got it gratis.

 

[Aimar16]

I think this is easy to figure out.

1. Bora valued Vlasov above him in last year's Vuelta (If not the management then at least his teammates).

What makes you think Vlasov was valued more? They were treated equally. Each had a man to look after them. Vlasov had Denz, Cian had Koch. Both did their own races, I can't remember a single moment when Cian was ordered to help Vlasov.

But for some reason, the Belgian rider is absolutely convinced that in the third week of the least prestigious GT race, the whole team should be in defensive mode to protect his 7th place. How can anyone defend this guy with such nonsense?

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

I probably don't understand these things, but isn't the whole issue the UCI-license of the rider and not really the labour laws?

For example:
- When Cian signed a contract with Bora until 31.12.2024 his UCI-license is registered with Bora until the end of the contract date so 31.12.2024.
- If Cian via labour laws breaks his contract with Bora and signs with Visma that's fine in the way that he's according to labor laws are free to work for who he want, but him being employed by Visma is not necessarily connected to the UCI-license.
- So Cian need both teams to accept the transfer of his UCI-license from Bora to Jumbo as his license is set with Bora until 31.12.2024.

In theory it should mean Cian could be in a situation where he is employed by Visma and get paid by them according to the contract, but he's not allowed to race for them as his UCI-license is stuck with Bora.

Is this right or am I completely wrong?

 

[CyclistAbi]

I don't feel it was that much about position in the team. As at Visma there is a substantial ladder to climb too. It's likely firstly about money and secondly the belief Visma can develop a young rider better. Due to their track record.

And i don't see much problem here. It can be done. Just not for free.

 

[scribers]

I probably don't understand these things, but isn't the whole issue the UCI-license of the rider and not really the labour laws?

For example:
- When Cian signed a contract with Bora until 31.12.2024 his UCI-license is registered with Bora until the end of the contract date so 31.12.2024.
- If Cian via labour laws breaks his contract with Bora and signs with Visma that's fine in the way that he's according to labor laws are free to work for who he want, but him being employed by Visma is not necessarily connected to the UCI-license.
- So Cian need both teams to accept the transfer of his UCI-license from Bora to Jumbo as his license is set with Bora until 31.12.2024.

In theory it should mean Cian could be in a situation where he is employed by Visma and get paid by them according to the contract, but he's not allowed to race for them as his UCI-license is stuck with Bora.

Is this right or am I completely wrong?

I didn’t read all this admittedly. But laws have dominion over rules

 

[CyclistAbi]

I probably don't understand these things, but isn't the whole issue the UCI-license of the rider and not really the labour laws?

It's both. That is UCI will make a decision in December. And that decision will have an affect on which team Cian will be registered to ride for in the 2024 season. Then if any side doesn't agree it can take the dispute to the court. Or i guess to still make an agreement. But the procedures in the court would obviously take much longer. Like in the van Aert case.

 

[Squire]

I didn’t read all this admittedly. But laws have dominion over rules

In the time it took you to write that non-answer to his question, you could easily have read his entire post.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Under UCI rules, a rider can only terminate a contract with a team early and transfer to a rival team with the approval of the UCI's Professional Cycling Council (PCC), which oversees the governance of professional cycling.

This is where we are now. If it would be as simple as saying i am with them now. Then there would not be any ongoing procedures, alleged misconduct as a basis for contract termination, in the first place. All in all it will be interesting to see on what UCI decides. As in my opinion this, and possible lawsuits after, will set the standard for the future.

 

[hrotha]

I haven't been following this case closely but I'm flabbergasted by the notion that Uijtdebroeks allegedly being put under Vlasov in the hierarchy at the Vuelta was a big issue. Vlasov had a solid GT record with a couple top 5 placings including at the 2022 Tour. Meanwhile, Uijtdebroeks was a promising rider for sure, but he hadn't proved anything yet. As we say in Spanish, who has he even tied with? "Vlasov's attack cost him his 7th place in the Vuelta" is one of the saddest sentences I've ever read. Why should anyone refrain from making their own race because a teammate currently sits in 7th place. What have we come to.

 

[scribers]

In the time it took you to write that non-answer to his question, you could easily have read his entire post.

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