Teams & Riders Cian Uijtdebroeks - From the wetlands to the top of cycling

[Berniece]

I asked before, but might ask again, who were the multiple sources? Bullies? People who have seen the bullying and never told the management, but told Zonneveld?

Color me skeptical, but I doubt that anyone who was a member of the alleged whatsapp group for example talked to Zonneveld, so it is more likely that he at best has second hand info about the contents of the conversations.

Journalists don't share their sources... He is a well respected journalist, not just a random guy. This isn't just someone that makes up stuff.

 

[roundabout]

Journalists don't share their sources... He is a well respected journalist, not just a random guy. This isn't just someone that makes up stuff.

A general description of what a well respected journalist is is not the reasoning why what he reports on this particular occasions should be taken for granted

 

[Berflamand]

I think the 'problem' is young sportsmen have an entourage geared towards maximizing the outcomes for the talented athlete in front of them.

It means evidently (at least it's appearing that way) Uijtdebroeks is a very talented rider with the social skills, tact & temperament of a bulldozer. He wants stuff & acts huffy when he doesn't get it. This IMO doesn't even necessarily come from him but from whomever is advising him. It's almost a cliché nowadays, i.e. athletes role playing at being winners straight-out of puberty.

There's too much stuff around Uijtdebroeks (including that article from 2021) for it to be coincidental. I mean just look at how the Belgian & Dutch media has rallied to his cause as well over the past week. There's a machine here which industrializes the manufacturing of bike champions. Uijtdebroeks is just the latest product of that system.

Again, we don't even know what he's like himself (does he even know?) because he's not exactly grown-up yet.

Just my opinion.

I think that might actually be one of Cian's biggest problems from now on.

The last few years Cian has been able to develop quietly without too much hype and attention from the Belgian media because a certain Remco Evenepoel exists.

If Evenepoel wouldn't exist (or wouldn't be Belgian) the hype, attention and expectations around Cian would be sky high because the cycling crazed Belgian community/media have waited so long for someone who might have the talent to win GT's.

All that 'flying under the radar' has gone now with everything that has happened the last few weeks. Attention/hype/expectations will all be a lot higher from now on. We'll have to see how he copes with that.

Maybe it might become a blessing in disguise for Remco who can now share the limelight in Belgian cycling media.

 

[Blanco]

Poor Cian! What has he survived and experienced... Nasty, mean WhatsApp bullying! Thank God he got out of all that alive and well.

And now seriously, what has world come to...

 

[Rob5091]

And now seriously, what has world come to...

Slow news season?

 

[Netserk]

Poor Cian! What has he survived and experienced... Nasty, mean WhatsApp bullying! Thank God he got out of all that alive and well.

And now seriously, what has world come to...

I heard he was raped on WhatsApp. That's nothing to joke about!

 

[Gargamel35]

This is all blowing up way too much. Cian is nothing compared to Remco. Nothing. Remco is already one of the greats in cycling and he's still very young. Cian managed to win nothing yet, not even finished on the podium. He's also very young sure and first year pro and that should tell him to shut the **** up, watch and learn. Be respectful to your older teammates, staff, bosses and press. Learn from the greater champions in your team and praise the lord to be in a team where such a champion actually races.

I thought he has a perfect scenario in Bora. He was considered as a big young talent, he was able to learn from Vlasov which he should beat easily on the road (if he really is such a talent...) in 2024 season. He got Roglič, one of best riders in the world to learn from in next 3 years. After 3 years, when Roglič would be too old, Cian would become sole leader in Bora, beating Vlasov (if he would be even there) and Roglič. That means, a 23 year old rider with great support and so many great learning experiences racing with these guys.

But no, a cocky youngster with nothing to show for it wants it his way. Older people in the team know nothing, staff knows nothing, little guy knows it all and he wants it his way with all the support from the team. On what basis? I bet people like that are hated and yes, bullied, because no one wants to work for such a rider.

Now, he tries to force his way to Visma. Maybe they can accommodate such a great champion with all his needs so he'll be able to improve his 8th place at Vuelta one day. It shouldn't be too hard. Vinge and Wout could help him a bit too, Kuss is probably not good enough. Clown.

 

[hfgon1]

I know it's kind of crazy but at my workplace we are about 60 people. There is a WhatsApp-Group with nearly most of them in, except the bosses. And then there are a lot of small groups as some colleagues became friends. Those friends even share their lunch breaks together often. I am part of three groups, should I feel bullied now as there are also groups without my participation? But what shall I say? In some of my groups we talk about colleagues and bosses, we even do during work or breaks.

Maybe just start to look in the mirror and think about your own behaviour if you feel bullied. It's kind of seldom that groups search for someone to bully. Mostly the guy is just doing thinks that make him more and more unpopular over time. Especially as a leader it's part of your business to be cool with the guys who shall work for you. If they don't like you, don't expect them to give a 100% and more for you. But sure, it's always easier to blame others for your own mistakes. But it's not more adult.

In the end, this case has only losers: Bora, Visma und especially Cian. No clue why it wasn't able to fix this out of public. Embarrassing.

 

[Panda Claws]

Poor Cian! What has he survived and experienced... Nasty, mean WhatsApp bullying! Thank God he got out of all that alive and well.

And now seriously, what has world come to...

The fact that you make this to be about WhatsApp shows that you don't get it. But you are using a strawman so you are not making the post in good faith anyway.

If the story is true he was getting excluded/bullied/... in a professional environment by adults. Just pathetic behavior.

It doesn't matter at all whether it is on Whatsapp or if it concerns training rides that he was deliberatly excluded from so they could joke about him.
I would also doubt that this would be the only way in such a vehement dislike towards him would show.

 

[Panda Claws]

I know it's kind of crazy but at my workplace we are about 60 people. There is a WhatsApp-Group with nearly most of them in, except the bosses. And then there are a lot of small groups as some colleagues became friends. Those friends even share their lunch breaks together often. I am part of three groups, should I feel bullied now as there are also groups without my participation? But what shall I say? In some of my groups we talk about colleagues and bosses, we even do during work or breaks.

Maybe just start to look in the mirror and think about your own behaviour if you feel bullied. It's kind of seldom that groups search for someone to bully. Mostly the guy is just doing thinks that make him more and more unpopular over time. Especially as a leader it's part of your business to be cool with the guys who shall work for you. If they don't like you, don't expect them to give a 100% and more for you. But sure, it's always easier to blame others for your own mistakes. But it's not more adult.

In the end, this case has only losers: Bora, Visma und especially Cian. No clue why it wasn't able to fix this out of public. Embarrassing.

I am sure that if you think a bit harder on it you could see that you should actually compare it to the situation where 50/59 others made a WhatsApp group to *** about you specifically and clearly exclude you in other situations as well. Your comparison makes no sense at all. This is about him being made to feel alone and not about him/his friend group not being besties with everyone.

Meanwhile you are a young guy working at your first job.

 

[Gargamel35]

The fact that you make this to be about WhatsApp shows that you don't get it. But you are using a strawman so you are not making the post in good faith anyway.

If the story is true he was getting excluded/bullied/... in a professional environment by adults. Just pathetic behavior.

It doesn't matter at all whether it is on Whatsapp or if it concerns training rides that he was deliberatly excluded from so they could joke about him.
I would also doubt that this would be the only way in such a vehement dislike towards him would show.

A first year youngster (but also an adult, you know) was bullying a professional cycling organization with wanting everything his way and throwing team under a bus if he didn't get it. What about that kind of take?

 

[Gargamel35]

I am sure that if you think a bit harder on it you could see that you should actually compare it to the situation where 50/59 others made a WhatsApp group to *** about you specifically and clearly exclude you in other situations as well. Your comparison makes no sense at all. This is about him being made to feel alone and not about him/his friend group not being besties with everyone.

Meanwhile you are a young guy working at your first job.

You actually don't know anything about that or if it was true and how many people were involved.

And yes, being young guy at your first job usually means to be respectful and happy for any support you get until you learn the ropes. Not demanding special treatment and going crying to the press.

 

[AmRacer]

If you are a p... in the a..., and people dont' do as you say. You are feeling the whole world is against you and being bullied.

 

[Blanco]

The fact that you make this to be about WhatsApp shows that you don't get it. But you are using a strawman so you are not making the post in good faith anyway.

If the story is true he was getting excluded/bullied/... in a professional environment by adults. Just pathetic behavior.

It doesn't matter at all whether it is on Whatsapp or if it concerns training rides that he was deliberatly excluded from so they could joke about him.
I would also doubt that this would be the only way in such a vehement dislike towards him would show.

They even joked about him!? Unbelievably cruel thing to do.
He was excluded by adults, you say. But is he not an adult? Or is he only an adult when he takes the money for riding his bicycle?
It's a senior team, a grown men team. If it's too early for him, then he should've wait couple of years. Maybe he's too young for all this jokes and groups...

 

[Berniece]

Lol this topic is getting silly, everyone downplaying the behaviour of Bora staff/teammates without knowing what happened. When it was worse enough for Uijtdebroeks to leave.

Bora wanted to open the contract and give Uijtdebroeks more money, so it's definitely not a money issue for Uijtdebroeks. And on top of that he could also earn way more at INEOS and Lidl-Trek...

So the only proper reason to leave is that he didn't fit in the team anymore, and that he was tired of the non-professional way they handled stuff. The first part could definitely be due to bullying. Second part was for all the world to see at Chrono des Nations.

 

[Ricco']

Second part was for all the world to see at Chrono des Nations.

According to Bora that race was added last minute per Uijtdebroeks's request, it was said to him that they weren't able to provide full support and it was even discussed what could happen in the event of a puncture of something like that.

If it was indeed a race added last minute to his schedule, I guess it could be expected to have minimal support. Staff also needs to have rest days and after a busy season, I'm guessing it could be expected to have a significant amount of team planned to be free those weeks, even more when the only other races for the team that week were happening in Turkey and China, so they would be expecting the need to have two squads of staff and material in completely different parts of the world than Europe.

And it's freaking Chrono des Nations, the last race of the season in October without almost any value, even more for a rider whose best TT result all season was a 22nd place. It seems like we're talking about the team not providing adequate support for a contender during the World ITT Championships.

 

[roundabout]

Lol this topic is getting silly, everyone downplaying the behaviour of Bora staff/teammates without knowing what happened. When it was worse enough for Uijtdebroeks to leave.

Bora wanted to open the contract and give Uijtdebroeks more money, so it's definitely not a money issue for Uijtdebroeks. And on top of that he could also earn way more at INEOS and Lidl-Trek...

So the only proper reason to leave is that he didn't fit in the team anymore, and that he was tired of the non-professional way they handled stuff. The first part could definitely be due to bullying. Second part was for all the world to see at Chrono des Nations.

The relationship could break down for multiple reasons from both sides. But it seems that you have already picked a side yourself.

Strange that a team bullying a rider would want to give that rider more money? Why? So that they can bully him for longer?

And it could indeed be a money issue (that you have so quickly 'definitely' excluded) as a possible extension would be less than what he could earn on the open market. And getting out from a contract that is paying less than the current market value is as good of a reason as any.

 

[Berniece]

Strange that a team bullying a rider would want to give that rider more money? Why? So that they can bully him for longer?

It's not like everyone was in on it. Some members of the staff and some riders, not everyone. I don't believe that Ralph Denk was being a part of the bullying, and probably unaware of it. He really wanted to keep Uijtdebroeks so wanted to open his contract and give him more money.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

If you are a p... in the a..

I'm fairly sure the message board software tolerates the word 'pain'

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Lol this topic is getting silly, everyone downplaying the behaviour of Bora staff/teammates without knowing what happened.

If you don't know what happened, how can you say that anything is being downplayed?

 

[roundabout]

It's not like everyone was in on it. Some members of the staff and some riders, not everyone. I don't believe that Ralph Denk was being a part of the bullying, and probably unaware of it. He really wanted to keep Uijtdebroeks so wanted to open his contract and give him more money.

If the management is not aware of any bullying I am going to go on a limb and make a supposition that Uijtdebroeks himself never made a point out of it.

The logical case for bullying to cause the relationship with the team to break down beyond repair is management doing nothing to stop if the bullying once they were aware.

 

[AmRacer]

If the management is not aware of any bullying I am going to go on a limb and make a supposition that Uijtdebroeks himself never made a point out of it.

The logical case for the relationship with the team breaking down beyond repair is management doing nothing to stop if the bullying once they were aware.

Was Superman bullied too?

 

[roundabout]

Was Superman bullied too?

give me a sec while I clarify the last sentence of the previous post

done

 

[joseph89]

I hope he goes on to have a successful career but i get the feeling we'll get a copy and paste of gavira's career since leaving quickstep.

Is cian an only child?

 

[AmRacer]

give me a sec while I clarify the last sentence of the previous post

done

One reason for the .... could be