Teams & Riders Cian Uijtdebroeks - From the wetlands to the top of cycling

[Filippo_3467]

Zoneveld is such a clown. But good to know that he can be bought as a hitman. Will come in handy for Jumbo when they want to sign the next rider from another team for a lower price.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Weird take. In my opinion Bora found out it would take too much time and money to fight this in court. No one would benefit from that. So they asked for less money than 1M, but more than 100K. This whole "we talked it out like adults" is going to be bs.

Even if that would be true. That is in the end on how adults would do it.

So somebody has pull a plug on and has sent the kids to bed. And adults took over. Likely some credit goes to UCI here to. With the move of registering Cian with Bora yesterday. Kudos to that. Showing the kids on how it's done.

So, kids, watch and learn, now go to bed.

 

[Extinction]

Will they change their phones before then, losing all content, Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak style?

Probably

 

[Berniece]

Which is why it's bad that a team can do what Visma did and why I hope they have a shitty season next year

I agree that it's not the way this should be going. UCI not creating the proper environment and rules for a transfersystem is the biggest issue here. Gives the power to bad actors to behave like this.

Zonneveld is such a clown. But good to know that he can be bought as a hitman. Will come in handy for Jumbo when they want to sign the next rider from another team for a lower price.

Why do you feel he's a clown?

 

[hrotha]

I agree that it's not the way this should be going. UCI not creating the proper environment and rules for a transfersystem is the biggest issue here. Gives the power to bad actors to behave like this.

All other teams have somehow managed to avoid doing this all these decades so maybe it's not that the transfer system is bad but that Visma are dicks. The system is not bad just because it wouldn't give Visma what it wants, particularly because this wasn't a judge saying "you know what, the system sucks" but rather two teams reaching an independent agreement - this is something that could have happened in any eventuality under any system and with or without invoking any Belgian laws because Bora was always going to have an incentive to sell (at a lower price if necessary) rather than keep paying a rider who very obviously and publicly doesn't want to stay and is willing to go this far to get out

It could have backfired, Cian could have been forced to stay, Bora could have been stuck with an unhappy rider doing nothing all season. And it would not have hurt Visma at all. They only stood to gain from this. Worst case scenario, they didn't get Uijtdebroeks until 2025, the exact same scenario as if they hadn't tried any underhanded shenanigans. It's kinda gross

 

[theyoungest]

Why do you feel he's a clown?

He's not, but the newfound Bora fans (the Venn diagram completely overlaps with Roglic fans) do not accept any type of modest criticism of that team. Even if it's not really criticism, as in this case. Zonneveld just uses the Dutch expression of "eieren voor je geld kiezen", lit. "choosing eggs for your money", i.e. to cut your losses. Which is probably what they did. Most likely they didn't get one million euros, but they're also not getting a lawsuit, which wouldn't benefit anybody.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@theyoungest

Accusations were anything but modest. Now confirmed that such accusations were never made by Cian.

P.S. But i don't blame some journalist i don't even know for it. He was likely trafficked too.

 

[Berniece]

Accusations were anything but modest. Now confirmed that such accusations were never made by Cian.

No, that's not what has been said. Denk says Cian never let them know he was bullied. The fact that Bora is dropping this case, tells me they weren't able to get a win in court, which means there must have been a good reason for Cian to break his contract. So there is definitely some truth to it.

 

[Froome]

In the end Visma won. They signed one of the most(if not the best, with more potential) promising young GT rider for the future, that can grown up in the shadow of the best current GT rider in the peloton.

Bora will regret losing cian uijdtbroeks.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Berniece

Denk clarified that Uijtdebroeks did not accuse his now-former teammates of bullying.

"Above all, I stand behind my team. When false accusations are made against our riders, a line is crossed. To be clear: these accusations did not come from Cian. They were never voiced to us by Cian as a reason to change teams," Denk said.

So Cian never made this accusations. Somebody else did, though.

P.S. As for Denk being all that much occupied with this case. Likely the case was already given to a lawyer and Denk likely already thinking about other things. As if the other side is unresponsive. Not much else one can do anyway. Than to take legal actions. And that doesn't happen over night.

 

[pastronef]

Which is why it's bad that a team can do what Visma did and why I hope they have a shitty season next year

100% my wish too

 

[roundabout]

No, that's not what has been said. Denk says Cian never let them know he was bullied. The fact that Bora is dropping this case, tells me they weren't able to get a win in court, which means there must have been a good reason for Cian to break his contract. So there is definitely some truth to it.

Or you can read Denk's quote as Uijtdebroeks mentioning (in person or otherwise) reasons that he would like to leave Bora with bullying not being one of them.

 

[CyclistAbi]

In the end Visma won. They signed one of the most(if not the best, with more potential) promising young GT rider for the future, that can grown up in the shadow of the best current GT rider in the peloton.

Bora will regret losing cian uijdtbroeks.

Then again Bora would be prepared to let Cian go. Visma was not the only team interested. So likely the sky isn't falling. In regards to some (distant) future. But for that best to wait and see. On how fast Cian will bring in 15 wins per season and win GTs. And obviously if Rogla can or can't do that for Bora.

All in all it could still happen, that both teams are the winners here. That is for Bora to win a lot with Roglič, now, and Visma with Cian in some future.

In the end that is life. You usually can't have everything. On top of that some new kid will likely emerge, soonish, so Bora can still keep an eye on that. Talent. Maybe to sign him and pay him with potential prizes money. That would be something. And than that kid maybe to compete with Cian, for wins, a couple of years down the road.

 

[Lequack]

Will he make a good helper for Vingegaard?

 

[roundabout]

Why do you feel he's a clown?

It's unlikely that after spreading the vile rumors about Bora anyone on the team would want to talk to him about the size of the transfer fee, so it's more likely that information either was fed by Jumbo or Zonneveld pulled it out of his ass.

Neither is a good look for a supposedly 'respected' journo reporting on such a contentious case.

 

[Berniece]

All other teams have somehow managed to avoid doing this all these decades so maybe it's not that the transfer system is bad but that Visma are dicks. The system is not bad just because it wouldn't give Visma what it wants, particularly because this wasn't a judge saying "you know what, the system sucks" but rather two teams reaching an independent agreement - this is something that could have happened in any eventuality under any system and with or without invoking any Belgian laws because Bora was always going to have an incentive to sell (at a lower price if necessary) rather than keep paying a rider who very obviously and publicly doesn't want to stay and is willing to go this far to get out

It could have backfired, Cian could have been forced to stay, Bora could have been stuck with an unhappy rider doing nothing all season. And it would not have hurt Visma at all. They only stood to gain from this. Worst case scenario, they didn't get Uijtdebroeks until 2025, the exact same scenario as if they hadn't tried any underhanded shenanigans. It's kinda gross

I agree that Visma handled this very poorly, but I disagree that the system is good like it works now.

The whole business model of cycling as a whole is ***. It depends way too much (almost solely) on sponsorship. Even more so now that things like this happen. You need a proper transfer system that can become a revenue generator. Together with a proper division of TV rights.

It's unlikely that after spreading the vile rumors about Bora anyone on the team would want to talk to him about the size of the transfer fee, so it's more likely that information either was fed by Jumbo or Zonneveld pulled it out of his ass.

Neither is a good look for a supposedly 'respected' journo reporting on such a contentious case.

Or he was just talking the truth? It came from multiple sources and it's not like he's been caught in lying about these things before (as far as I know).

 

[CyclistAbi]

I agree that Visma handled this very poorly, but I disagree that the system is good like it works now.

The whole business model of cycling as a whole is ***. It depends way too much (almost solely) on sponsorship. Even more so now that things like this happen. You need a proper transfer system that can become a revenue generator. Together with a proper division of TV rights.

It works if all sides involved respect the procedure. That was not the case here. Until adults took over.

 

[Hugh Januss]

In the end Visma won. They signed one of the most(if not the best, with more potential) promising young GT rider for the future, that can grown up in the shadow of the best current GT rider in the peloton.

Bora will regret losing cian uijdtbroeks.

He is a taller whinier Remco.

 

[Netserk]

I agree that it's not the way this should be going. UCI not creating the proper environment and rules for a transfersystem is the biggest issue here. Gives the power to bad actors to behave like this.

What is wrong with the current rules and what should they be changed to?

I think a transfer window from Aug 1 to Dec 31 is quite fine and the rest of the rules seem to work just fine for all other transfers. Rogla's deal was just as it should be.

Maybe this case should prompt UCI to make it clear that a rider can only ride for another team after breaking his contract if he can prove to the UCI that the team breached the contract agreement.

More information and comment by denk.

Compensation agreed between Cian Uijtdebroeks, Bora-Hansgrohe and Jumbo-Visma

Agreement has been made with settlement paid to German team after Uijtdebroeks terminated his contract

www.globalcyclingnetwork.com

"The move has been approved by the UCI, and GCN understands that a fee was paid to Bora-Hansgrohe in order for Uijtdebroeks' contract to be terminated on December 31."

Then all parties agree that the contract was not (lawfully) terminated on Dec 1 by Uijtdebroeks.

 

[roundabout]

Or he was just talking the truth? It came from multiple sources and it's not like he's been caught in lying about these things before (as far as I know).

Of course since you managed to twist the team manager explicitly saying that Uijtdebroeks never used bullying as a reason to leave Bora into a sign that there was some truth to bullying, it's no surprise that your perception of this case is already set and that you think what was reported is the 'truth'.

There is literally no reason for Zonneveld not name any sources now, unless he genuinely believes in some kind of cycling wide culture of retribution against whistleblowers (and I am not sure those people can even be named as such if they even exist).

But I kind suspect that he won't name any names and I suspect you will twist any logic into a pretzel yet again to 'justify' any names not being named.

I also kind of doubt that any other journalist would report about the 'bullying'. Despite their being 'multiple sources' and all.

 

[Netserk]

You need a proper transfer system that can become a revenue generator. Together with a proper division of TV rights.

Where does the transfer money come from? Lol.

 

[Berniece]

Where does the transfer money come from? Lol.

Literally the sentence after that one.

 

[Netserk]

Literally the sentence after that one.

If the money comes from elsewhere, how are they "generated" by transfers?

 

[Hugh Januss]

Or he was just talking the truth? It came from multiple sources and it's not like he's been caught in lying about these things before (as far as I know).

I have not heard of any other sources for this claim, would you mind sharing some of these? Do you have firsthand knowledge?

 

[CyclistAbi]

All in all Denk and Cian held beautifully. Welcome to the big boys. Bora becoming a first tier team and Cian riding for one too.

You can't just enter in this club, you have to fight your way into it.