Clean Colombians? (Arkea investigation page 27)

[Benotti69]

yes zero have ever been caught on doping in europe name me one other cycling nation that has similar figures. none. colombians are naturally doped. they were starting to dominate in late 80s until epo arose. now that doping is gone, they rise again. what's the point of using epo to get your hematocrite from 49 to 49.5%

Colombians are natural dopers

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

http://www.dopeology.org/people/José-Joaquim_Castelblanco/
Why would he need EPO when he is naturally high?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Well, the cat is out of the bag:

But is this oversimplifying matters? Can one man be largely credited for this wealth of talent? To a large degree, yes, particularly when you learn that Saldarriaga (who you can follow on Twitter here) is the only trainer and director in Colombia who uses power with his riders. That's right, no other team in Colombia (professional or otherwise) uses power-based training. As such, it should be understood that the chasm between Saldarriaga's knowledge, and that of the others directors and trainers in Colombia is absolutely massive (though of course there are other successful trainers as well). But to get the chance of training and racing for Saldarriaga is a gigantic boost to Colombian riders, who previously trained and raced much in the way that riders did in the early 1980s

Luis Fernando Saldarriaga

The Tim Kerrison of Colombia.

http://www.cyclinginquisition.com/2013/04/why-these-colombian-riders-and-why-now.html

Or would the link with Acqua&Sapone [Masciarelli/Gini] since 2006 have anything to do with it, or would it be a project of the minister of commerce, Dr. Luis Guillermo Plata?
http://colombiaespasion4-72.com/ind...cia-ignacio-velez-londono&catid=37:nacionales

"The Coach" as it is affectionately called by members of the 4-72 cycling team Colombia is Passion decided to accept the challenge of leading the project designed by Dr. Luis Guillermo Plata in 2006. It's almost six years of battles, professional growth, love of country, satisfactions and joys which have been obtained with the square of Colombians.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/luis-guillermo-plata-paez

Minister Plata, one of the youngest members of the Colombian Cabinet, has received both national and international recognition. The World Economic Forum selected him as one of the Young Global Leaders and he also received the highest possible international recognition from the YPO organization as an effective leader. For three consecutive years, he has been elected as one of the top business leaders of Colombia and, for the entirety of his duration as minister, has maintained his position as one of the top two members of President Uribe’s Cabinet.

Or, is it just because of:

So altitude, topography and simple physiological reasons have no doubt aided matters, but Colombia's secret within the realm of cycling is no secret at all. It's exactly the same thing the helps us through other matters all of our lives: our people, the connections we make with one another, and our endless—almost stubborn— drive to help ourselves an each other. It's there, I would argue, that Colombia's real magic (in and out of cycling) lies.

?

Hard work, love your country and use powermeters.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

To keep it from dropping to 46 over three weeks, for example?

Also, stop repeating that lie about no Colombians having been caught in Europe. It's been rebutted plenty of times.

where? no colombian has ever been caught on doping in europe. but pls proof otherwise. I've never found any. and don't come up with botero, yes he was probably doped. but he sure as hell wasn't the initiator. the man lifed on 300 euros a month for 6 years in kelme and only broke through in 99 and 2000 when the serious doping offenses were gone. even riders themselves have said 99 and 2000 were the cleanest years they had seen.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Last time I checked, the definition of doping went beyond blood transfusing.

José Alirios Chizabas, Nandrolone, 1987 Semana Catalana <-- Europe
Reynel Montoya, Amphetamine, 1991 Tour de France <-- Europe
Martin Farfan, Pemoline twice, 1989 Vuelta <-- Europe
Israel Corredor, Metenolone, 1987 Vuelta <-- Europe

how about profiding some links that call upon this? also those things they were caught on are hilarious. pemoline. really? like nandrolone also ridiculous. there is a reason football players don't even get it mentioned when they were caught on nandrolone(jaap stam I think)

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Well, the cat is out of the bag:

Luis Fernando Saldarriaga

The Tim Kerrison of Colombia.

http://www.cyclinginquisition.com/2013/04/why-these-colombian-riders-and-why-now.html

Or would the link with Acqua&Sapone [Masciarelli/Gini] since 2006 have anything to do with it, or would it be a project of the minister of commerce, Dr. Luis Guillermo Plata?
http://colombiaespasion4-72.com/ind...cia-ignacio-velez-londono&catid=37:nacionales

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/luis-guillermo-plata-paez


Or, is it just because of:

?

Hard work, love your country and use powermeters.

wow. none of the stuff you post makes any sense. you are daotech?

 

[The Hitch]

Some really funny stuff here lol.

 

[Ferminal]

how about profiding some links that call upon this? also those things they were caught on are hilarious. pemoline. really? like nandrolone also ridiculous. there is a reason football players don't even get it mentioned when they were caught on nandrolone(jaap stam I think)

Davids/FdB... naughty Netherlanders.

 

[TANK91]

All sarcasm aside, there's reason to think that the Colombians as a whole were clean(ish) or at least that they didn't benefit as much from doping in the 90s. In the second half of the 80s, the Colombians were a growing force in Europe. Their decline coincides precisely with the spread of EPO in the pro peloton. Now, why would those very talented folks like Lucho Herrera (who retired at 31, thirty-one) suddenly stop being a factor, when they had already paid their dues and adapted to European cycling?

Herrera also gave us a perfect quote to describe the early 90s: "when I saw riders with fat asses climbing like airplanes, that's when I knew." His case is similar to LeMond's.

People do peak at diff times you know, just saying. Look at Contador for example dominated in cycling since a fairly young age he is now 29? or 30? and I think its unlikely he will dominate till he is around the usual drop of age of 33,34,35 he may win a GT? but dominate no chance.

And I don't think the Colombian's in Europe at the moment are doping maybe the riders in S.America are but not Quintana, Henao, Betancour.

 

[TANK91]

People do peak at diff times you know, just saying. Look at Contador for example dominated in cycling since a fairly young age he is now 29? or 30? and I think its unlikely he will dominate till he is around the usual drop of age of 33,34,35 he may win a GT? but dominate no chance.

And I don't think the Colombian's in Europe at the moment are doping maybe the riders in S.America are but not Quintana, Henao, Betancour.

Just realised Hrotha's comment was from 2011 silly me lol. FACEPALM...

 

[TANK91]

where? no colombian has ever been caught on doping in europe. but pls proof otherwise. I've never found any. and don't come up with botero, yes he was probably doped. but he sure as hell wasn't the initiator. the man lifed on 300 euros a month for 6 years in kelme and only broke through in 99 and 2000 when the serious doping offenses were gone. even riders themselves have said 99 and 2000 were the cleanest years they had seen.

Seriously 99-2000 were clean id have never thought that?. LOL

 

[TANK91]

botero must be pretty ****ed off about all those gts he lost to dopers.

ha ha lmao

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

wow. none of the stuff you post makes any sense. you are daotech?

I'll translate it for you: the Colombian revolution on the European Continent is down to training with powermeters and riding for country and flag. In combination with their superior genetic roots that was bound to be a success.

 

[DirtyWorks]

How about some general facts regarding Colombia?

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/co.html

Their UCI cycling federation: http://www.ciclismodecolombia.com/

Which, lists almost 1000(!) riders who have ridden UCI's International calendar events. I don't think there are 1000 pros in the U.S. doing races in the Americas (North, Central, South) and Americans enjoy a higher standard of living.

Per capita, bicycle racing is *very* popular despite a wide disparity in income distribution. Very low obesity ranking, so people live well and are not starving too much.

I would argue, without bringing in doping, that based on the apparent popularity of the sport, it is likely there's quite a bit of talent coming out of Colombia that would shine in a clean(er) European peloton.

Bring doping into the discussion and I still think they can graduate more talent given the popularity of the sport in-country.

 

[Schwartzchov]

Colombian Perez Arango provisionally banned for PED use.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...rango-provisionally-banned-for-ped-use_284625

 

[TylerDurden1]

The Colombians

What's sup with the Colombians riding so well.

first and second on a Giro stage
stage win in ToC

They've always climbed ok, but did they start riding so well and winning all of a sudden?
Henao and Uran sharing UK Postal tactics?

Hmmmm

 

[zlev11]

well, if you think about it, colombians were pretty dominant on climbs in grand tours in the mid/late '80's (pre-EPO). then they all disappeared. there were a few here and there performing well (parra at the '05 giro, for instance), but mostly they were anonymous. if the sport really has cleaned up, or at least cleaned up enough to prevent the 7w/kg climbing performances (which it has), you could say that it would make a lot of sense to see a re-emergence of colombians doing well on climbs. i'm not saying that everyone born in colombia has the potential of lucho hererra, but the physiology that comes with living there certainly lends itself to producing good climbers.

not saying they're all clean/less dirty than everyone else, but it's hard not to notice the trend.

 

[Granville57]

What's sup with the wrong spelling of "Colombians" in the thread title?

Unless you meant this crew:

 

[The Hitch]

Yes i do think HTC Columbia was dirty, or at least some of the riders - they had dodger for flip sake.

Thankfully its folded now though lots of them ended up at ibraugen's 2012 team.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Them Colombians are a superior species, better than the rest of us, just like the Chinese will be more sick resistant because they eat lots of rice and the Russians are able to tackle extreme weather situations like no other.

Once cycling goes under water a Japanese will win the TdF.

 

[the sceptic]

Colombians only need to dope in small south american races, the ones that race in europe are clean.

 

[Alphabet]

Nobody is saying that the young Colombians are clean, but they must represent one of the most talented generations of athletes to emerge from one nation in recent sporting history. Is it coincidence though, that around the late '00s that a dozen or so young Colombians suddenly showed the potential to be among the best climbers in the world?

I found Uran's and Henao's time-trials to be suspiciously good. I don't know if they have improved their TTing but I used to rate them at Frank Schleck's level of TTing ability and they did a fair bit better than that.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Nobody is saying that the young Colombians are clean, but they must represent one of the most talented generations of athletes to emerge from one nation in recent sporting history. Is it coincidence though, that around the late '00s that a dozen or so young Colombians suddenly showed the potential to be among the best climbers in the world?

I found Uran's and Henao's time-trials to be suspiciously good. I don't know if they have improved their TTing but I used to rate them at Frank Schleck's level of TTing ability and they did a fair bit better than that.

How was there split of the flat like ?
It really wasn't a traditional TT. Fairly technical initially, then the climb at the end. True traditional TT'ers only had a significant advantage on the middle section.

Just look at how Nibali lost against Wiggins on the flat for example (or rather he made up quite a bit back from the initial loss).


Not saying anything either way really, beyond this one TT stage is a poor one to judge TT ability from.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Merge thread?

There's already a thread on this topic. Some facts might help.

Their federation site: http://www.ciclismodecolombia.com/

Check the CIA Fact book. It's plausible they could have sufficient depth due to popularity.

Obligatory link to my post in the earlier thread. http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1211148&postcount=163

 

[ChewbaccaD]

It's the coffee.