Clean Colombians? (Arkea investigation page 27)

[maltiv]

Interesting to say that Bartoli, who was implicated in doping scandals, is his "secret weapon". Not a wise choice of words, at least.

An interesting point on Bartoli is that a Norwegian continental rider, Vegard Robinson Bugge, intended to have Bartoli as his trainer for 2013. But the Norwegian cycling federation didn't let him, as they found him to be too suspicious...

 

[The Hitch]

Colombian riders dont dope like Colombia is not the home of cocaine

Don't see what that has to do with anything.

And Colombia is not the home of cocaine. Coca comes mostly from Bolivia and Peru. Colombian exporters were middle men who processed and transported it.
Even the coca now grown in Colombia is Peruvian coca that was planted.

 

[the sceptic]

One of the most obvious dopers of the 2000s was colombian.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Colombian riders dont dope like Colombia is not the home of cocaine

Just like Colombian team doctors caught with products.

Or Colombia Coldesportes with their squeekie clean medial staff.

anyway I cam here to post this interesting and very true intervier from betancurt:

"I saw how [Joaquim] Rodríguez won last year and I wanted to imitate it," was how Betancur described his attack, although in fact he may have not watched 'Purito' in last year's Flèche, given the Spaniard attacked with about 300 metres to go.

"I thought I was going to win, it was only about 100 metres from the finish when they finally got past me," he said. "This kind of result is very important for me and for Colombia."

He was only nine second faster than Rodriguez, that is nice. Seven seconds of corti-Gilbert. All thanks to the BIO of course.

 

[Caruut]

I think Ryo's "Colombians love Colombia" argument cuts both ways. After all, Betancur said "This kind of result is very important for me and Colombia". Clearly Betancur feels that the results he achieves are important for his country.

From this I think one could conclude that far from being afraid of the repercussions of a positive in Europe, the Colombians' love of their homeland will lead them to go to extraordinary lengths in doping. The eternal burning of their affection for Colombia will mean that a Colombian will go far and beyond what riders riding just for themselves are doing - after all, they are riding for a whole country.

In fact, I would say a Colombian's love for Colombia would make them more worried about testing positive in Colombia. After all, doing so would reflect badly on Colombian racing, Colombian testing, Colombian teams and, by extension, Colombia. Testing positive in Europe can be blamed on the corrupt European system forcing innocent Colombians to do the wrong thing.

Disclaimer: this is BS.

 

[L'arriviste]

Amusing thread.

FWIW, I have listed 27 Colombians as having been involved in some kind of doping-related activity since 1980.

That's almost more Colombians than those pesky Anglos the UK and Australia put together.

The prevalence of Colombians in doping-related activities ranks #12 among nations.

A Colombian rider has tested positive in every decade from the 80s to the Noughties.

That said, I think nationality by itself doesn't really tell us anything useful about doping.

 

[Caruut]

Is prevalence total positives or positives per rider?

 

[Caruut]

Don't see what that has to do with anything.

And Colombia is not the home of cocaine. Coca comes mostly from Bolivia and Peru. Colombian exporters were middle men who processed and transported it.
Even the coca now grown in Colombia is Peruvian coca that was planted.

I think he's just intending to do a "Colombians don't dope like the Pope's not Catholic" with a "topical" slant. Colombia might not be the home of coca, but it's the home of cocaine.

 

[hrotha]

I think he's just intending to do a "Colombians don't dope like the Pope's not Catholic" with a "topical" slant. Colombia might not be the home of coca, but it's the home of cocaine.

It's still a pretty stupid thing to say. Recreational drugs are not the same as doping. Are Dutch riders automatically dirty because tourists flock to Amsterdam to do drugs?

 

[L'arriviste]

Is prevalence total positives or positives per rider?

Prevalence is number of nationals involved in a doping-related incident. A positive test is a type of doping-related incident.

The positive tests are:

José Alirios Chizabas
Reynel Montoya*
Martin Farfan x 2*
Israel Corredor*
José-Joaquim Castelblanco*

* indicates positive while riding for a Colombian team and the prevalence of teams is the most interesting axis, as opposed to nationality or drugs.

 

[will10]

I thought Buenahora had had a positive or two.

 

[Caruut]

It's still a pretty stupid thing to say. Recreational drugs are not the same as doping. Are Dutch riders automatically dirty because tourists flock to Amsterdam to do drugs?

Just didn't think a serious connection was being drawn is all. I read cocaine as having been used for being typically Colombian in a "Bears poo in the woods" sense not in a "Colombia produces coke therefore Colombian riders dope" sense.

 

[Caruut]

Prevalence is number of nationals involved in a doping-related incident. A positive test is a type of doping-related incident.

The positive tests are:

José Alirios Chizabas
Reynel Montoya*
Martin Farfan x 2*
Israel Corredor*
José-Joaquim Castelblanco*

* indicates positive while riding for a Colombian team and the prevalence of teams is the most interesting axis, as opposed to nationality or drugs.

Ahh, okay. Then where the nation ranks is largely irrelevant since total number of riders racing in regularly tested races will have such a profound impact.

 

[L'arriviste]

I thought Buenahora had had a positive or two.

I think he had an haematocrit violation and a two-year ban for an ephedrine positive, both during his brief comeback career in the old country.

I only record incidents that occur on the mainstream European scene due to problems with sources and the significantly increased size of the task that I would face if I did "everything". Maybe in the future...

 

[L'arriviste]

Ahh, okay. Then where the nation ranks is largely irrelevant since total number of riders racing in regularly tested races will have such a profound impact.

This is true. Plus, too many other factors (reporting, stakes, policing, etc) make nationality a rather weak axis.

 

[The Hitch]

I think he's just intending to do a "Colombians don't dope like the Pope's not Catholic" with a "topical" slant. Colombia might not be the home of coca, but it's the home of cocaine.

Why would colombia be the home of cocaine. Its just a transit point, and not even the only one. Surely the US is the home of cocaine because at any given point theres probably far more of it there than anywhere else in the world.

Just didn't think a serious connection was being drawn is all. I read cocaine as having been used for being typically Colombian in a "Bears poo in the woods" sense not in a "Colombia produces coke therefore Colombian riders dope" sense.

If its a comparison why did he choose such a miserable cheap shot for a comparison.

 

[D-Queued]

It's still a pretty stupid thing to say. Recreational drugs are not the same as doping. Are Dutch riders automatically dirty because tourists flock to Amsterdam to do drugs?

Only when Phat reassures us that the Anglo Saxon culture, epitomized and lead by the Dutch, would not ever dope be it recreational or PED.

Dave.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Colombian riders dont dope like Colombia is not the home of cocaine

your racist comments are pathetic, besides colombia has one of lowest amount of cocaine addicts in the world. want to know how many there are in usa?

also cocaine is a recreational drug, ever heard of recretation doping users?

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I think Ryo's "Colombians love Colombia" argument cuts both ways. After all, Betancur said "This kind of result is very important for me and Colombia". Clearly Betancur feels that the results he achieves are important for his country.

From this I think one could conclude that far from being afraid of the repercussions of a positive in Europe, the Colombians' love of their homeland will lead them to go to extraordinary lengths in doping. The eternal burning of their affection for Colombia will mean that a Colombian will go far and beyond what riders riding just for themselves are doing - after all, they are riding for a whole country.

In fact, I would say a Colombian's love for Colombia would make them more worried about testing positive in Colombia. After all, doing so would reflect badly on Colombian racing, Colombian testing, Colombian teams and, by extension, Colombia. Testing positive in Europe can be blamed on the corrupt European system forcing innocent Colombians to do the wrong thing.

Disclaimer: this is BS.

lol, thanks for the disclaimer, you almost had me

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Amusing thread.

FWIW, I have listed 27 Colombians as having been involved in some kind of doping-related activity since 1980.

That's almost more Colombians than those pesky Anglos the UK and Australia put together.

The prevalence of Colombians in doping-related activities ranks #12 among nations.

A Colombian rider has tested positive in every decade from the 80s to the Noughties.

That said, I think nationality by itself doesn't really tell us anything useful about doping.

yes zero have ever been caught on doping in europe name me one other cycling nation that has similar figures. none. colombians are naturally doped. they were starting to dominate in late 80s until epo arose. now that doping is gone, they rise again. what's the point of using epo to get your hematocrite from 49 to 49.5%

 

[Ferminal]

Botero must be pretty ****ed off about all those GTs he lost to dopers.

 

[hrotha]

yes zero have ever been caught on doping in europe name me one other cycling nation that has similar figures. none. colombians are naturally doped. they were starting to dominate in late 80s until epo arose. now that doping is gone, they rise again. what's the point of using epo to get your hematocrite from 49 to 49.5%

To keep it from dropping to 46 over three weeks, for example?

Also, stop repeating that lie about no Colombians having been caught in Europe. It's been rebutted plenty of times.

 

[L'arriviste]

yes zero have ever been caught on doping in europe

Last time I checked, the definition of doping went beyond blood transfusing.

José Alirios Chizabas, Nandrolone, 1987 Semana Catalana <-- Europe
Reynel Montoya, Amphetamine, 1991 Tour de France <-- Europe
Martin Farfan, Pemoline twice, 1989 Vuelta <-- Europe
Israel Corredor, Metenolone, 1987 Vuelta <-- Europe

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Botero also was just high on testosterone because living high also raises the T/E ratio's.

Innocent bunch of peeps those Colombians.

 

[the sceptic]

Botero must be pretty ****ed off about all those GTs he lost to dopers.

1998-2002 Kelme-Costa Blanca
2003-2004 Team Telekom
2005-2006 Phonak Hearing Systems

Cleanest rider in the peloton ended up on 3 of the dirtiest teams. What a concidence.

1 Santiago Botero (Col) Phonak Hearing Systems 1.00.06.55 (46.915 km/h)
2 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner 0.01
3 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 0.26
4 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems 0.39
5 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 1.00
6 Oscar Pereiro (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 1.09
7 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 1.11
8 Marzio Bruseghin (Ita) Fassa Bortolo 1.14
9 Ivan Gutierrez (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 1.16
10 Sebastian Lang (Ger) Gerolsteiner 1.19

It would be hard to find a more impressive list of dopers, but since it was 2005, maybe they had all stopped doping?