Clean Colombians? (Arkea investigation page 27)

[Alphabet]

I can't recall exactly, but I think Henao came very close to Dowsett's time at one of the splits.

But then again Scarponi was also TTing unbelievably well on the flat.

 

[darodr86]

Colombians kings of the mountains

Dear friend,

There is no new news about Colombians such as Uran (silver medalist in London's Olympics); they have a long history of being excellent climbers and good cyclists. Excluding the Giro and the Tour, they have won the equivalent of the yellow sweater, at least once in all of the races entered throughout the world. In both, France and Italy they have won stages and the mountain jersey. In the eighties and early nineties was their best of times at the Tour and Gyro. Now, they are having a rebirth where after some twenty years plus without a national cycling team, a young group of riders sponsored by the Colombian Sports authority - eleven cyclists - are participating in the Giro. IF I am not mistaken their goal is to be in the Tour by next year.... I hope this brief commentary sheds some light on the subject matter.

 

[sittingbison]

To be honest I cannot recall a single insinuation against any of the Colombian pro cyclists, not mumblings and grumblings about widespread doping national practices.

So on that note I think I'll close this thread, I don't like the whiff of "nationalism" or "racism" involved. Any problems with this decision PM me.

 

[Eshnar]

Thread reopened for now...

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Nobody is saying that the young Colombians are clean, but they must represent one of the most talented generations of athletes to emerge from one nation in recent sporting history. Is it coincidence though, that around the late '00s that a dozen or so young Colombians suddenly showed the potential to be among the best climbers in the world?

I found Uran's and Henao's time-trials to be suspiciously good. I don't know if they have improved their TTing but I used to rate them at Frank Schleck's level of TTing ability and they did a fair bit better than that.

uran already won a flat itt in europe at age 19 in 2007 and he was also on his way to become world champion itt as a junior if not for 2 flat tire,s which made him finish 12th. uran was also national chmpion track on almost any discipline as a junior and no colombia is no weak track country. henao in colombia had developped into a good itt rider. obviously at sky he improved a lot his position and equipment and everything. henao already rode an amazing itt in algarve ealrier this year where he beat chavanel, also long and much flatter than the giro itt

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=12910&page=5

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

How about some general facts regarding Colombia?

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/co.html

Their UCI cycling federation: http://www.ciclismodecolombia.com/

Which, lists almost 1000(!) riders who have ridden UCI's International calendar events. I don't think there are 1000 pros in the U.S. doing races in the Americas (North, Central, South) and Americans enjoy a higher standard of living.

Per capita, bicycle racing is *very* popular despite a wide disparity in income distribution. Very low obesity ranking, so people live well and are not starving too much.

I would argue, without bringing in doping, that based on the apparent popularity of the sport, it is likely there's quite a bit of talent coming out of Colombia that would shine in a clean(er) European peloton.

Bring doping into the discussion and I still think they can graduate more talent given the popularity of the sport in-country.

Good post. also note that almost all Colombian cycling states are at 2000 meters altitude or more. that says enough. ever wondered why almost all us pro and the best us pro's come from boulder Colorado? or marathon runners from the highlands of Ethiopia?

 

[Eshnar]

EDIT: Thread merged with "The Colombians"

 

[del1962]

Rise to the occassion. Could negligence and bad habits harm a new wave of Colombian cycling?

Interseting article, including why WT teams don't pick the winners of local races in colombia.

 

[Berzin]

I want to ask if anyone on this forum has ever raced in Colombia, or know what those races are like when they roll into a particular town and the local pharmacies have been cleaned out of every product that can be utilized for performance enhancement.

The Colombian Master's Class is almost as fast as some pro races, and it's not because there are so many ex-pros riding the races. There are amateurs using blood transfusions, and the testing at these races is almost non-existent.

This means that samples are collected, but they are rarely tested in a laboratory due to the expense.

The money that is supposed to go for anti-doping winds up in someone's pocket.

 

[Taxus4a]

I want to ask if anyone on this forum has ever raced in Colombia, or know what those races are like when they roll into a particular town and the local pharmacies have been cleaned out of every product that can be utilized for performance enhancement.

The Colombian Master's Class is almost as fast as some pro races, and it's not because there are so many ex-pros riding the races. There are amateurs using blood transfusions, and the testing at these races is almost non-existent.

This means that samples are collected, but they are rarely tested in a laboratory due to the expense.

The money that is supposed to go for anti-doping winds up in someone's pocket.

It is like that.

If Contador or Froome go to race clásico RCN in his best shape they are not going to win.

But colombians that succed in Europe is becouse they are really good, and clean.

The EPO time was bad for themm becouse his natural advantage didnt work.

 

[Ferminal]

Yes, Oscar Sevilla would have crushed the Tour this year, must have been more doped than ever to win the Vuelta.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Colombian PED Story

The always interesting Klaus at Cycling Inquisition has posted an anonymized report on acquiring PED's in Bogota, Colombia.

http://www.cyclinginquisition.com/2014/01/omerta-and-violence-cost-of-merely.html?m=1

I found it through Dr. Veloclinic's excellent comment:
what's the difference between

smashing someone’s windows in

threatening physical violence

and

media blacklists

charity shields

disinformation campaigns

corporate warfare

…

absolutely nothing

Comments are interesting too. It seems the federation is as corrupt as USA Cycling.

 

[PATOMACPATO]

The Bomb!

Tomorrow El Tiempo will announce 4 failed tests at recent Clasico RCN .. Out of few tests. Col Cycling Federation tries to hide the news, but this one leaked to the media. The sad reality is that except for 472 Colombia all other teams dont do anything to control doping. In Particular Formesan , EP UNE and Coldeportes Claro are known for their culture of doping..

 

[jens_attacks]

Ómar Puentes (Elegant House),- EPO
Jorge Martínez (Supergiros), - EPO
Diego Quintero (GW Shimano) -EPO
Jahír Pérez (Ebsa). -Betametasone

gotta feel sorry for those guys, they lost at the lottery

 

[ebandit]

pro

well? they are all pro cyclists

quintana has a greater style than say da dawg but can be excused even if there are many similarities

success... willing to cheat ( ride behind team car in tob ) disappear to far flung places for training before tdf and ride with other cheating cyclists

Mark L

 

[Ferminal]

Silly fools who dope because they aren't good enough for Europe.

 

[movingtarget]

http://www.cyclinginquisition.com/2011/06/myth-of-laurent-fignon-as-intellectual.html

Colombia related article but very interesting.

 

[PATOMACPATO]

Wizzard!

here are the news I anticipated last night: http://www.eltiempo.com/deportes/ot...positivos-en-el-deporte-colombiano_13476590-4 Sad reality of Colombian Cycling! #rotten Only trust those racing in Europe & 472 Colombia !!

 

[Escarabajo]

http://www.cyclinginquisition.com/2011/06/myth-of-laurent-fignon-as-intellectual.html

Colombia related article but very interesting.

Interesting part about the doping. It is to note that even though the Colombians were doping in the national scene, they still had no chance in Europe. It came down to different variables. Speculation has been made about the lack of money for not having the Programs that the Europeans had or the body build of the Colombians not being appropiate for taking the most advantage of the EPO or blood doping. Not to forget about the limts on hematocrit makes it a loss cause to get an advantage if you already have a high red blood cell count for living in the Andes.

All in all they were gone from the European scene during the EPO peak. Little we knew that we organized the Duitama Worlds in 1995. Any other time we could have had better chance to win it. LOL.

I like the information about the 472 Colombia.

 

[zigmeister]

Right...woman's team...doped to the core. Yeah, they are such natural climbers due to the altitude and training. This only bodes badly for anyone from Colombia now, male/female etc...


http://translate.google.com/transla...s-en-el-deporte-colombiano_13476590-4&act=url

 

[Berzin]

http://www.cyclinginquisition.com/2011/06/myth-of-laurent-fignon-as-intellectual.html

Colombia related article but very interesting.

This story is so implausible on so many levels it doesn't make any sense.

Anyone who is looking for PEDs in Colombia would NEVER go to a bike shop. Why pay jacked-up black market prices when there is no black market? Absolutely ludicrous.

A bike shop may be good for for advice on dosages and administration, but ONLY IF you know people there who also dope and feel comfortable enough to talk about it openly with them.

There is absolutely no stigma with talking openly about PED's in Colombia amongst friends in the amateur ranks. I don't know about the pros. I would assume they would not be forthcoming at all for the obvious reasons of discretion.

There is no PED "Mafia" in Colombia. Anything you want you can get at a pharmacy without resorting to black marketeering. More often than not, this alleged "Mafia" consists of a very pretty young lady who works as a counter clerk, who probably won't know what these products are for outside their legitimately prescribed purposes, or why they would be used for performance enhancement.

On the off-hand you're looking for something that requires a doctor's prescription, it can easily be procured. You don't even need a doctor to write the script.

This report is more than likely made up. I don't believe in a million years any of this happened the way it was written, especially the reasons for the attack and the moto driver yelling out "Sapo!!!" to the driver minutes after he leaves the bike shop simply because he went in to ask about PED's.

In fact, I'm convinced the story is complete BS.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Didn't a few folks here mention before that practically the entire PDM team was doping(minus LeMond)?

 

[movingtarget]

This story is so implausible on so many levels it doesn't make any sense.

Anyone who is looking for PEDs in Colombia would NEVER go to a bike shop. Why pay jacked-up black market prices when there is no black market? Absolutely ludicrous.

A bike shop may be good for for advice on dosages and administration, but ONLY IF you know people there who also dope and feel comfortable enough to talk about it openly with them.

There is absolutely no stigma with talking openly about PED's in Colombia amongst friends in the amateur ranks. I don't know about the pros. I would assume they would not be forthcoming at all for the obvious reasons of discretion.

There is no PED "Mafia" in Colombia. Anything you want you can get at a pharmacy without resorting to black marketeering. More often than not, this alleged "Mafia" consists of a very pretty young lady who works as a counter clerk, who probably won't know what these products are for outside their legitimately prescribed purposes, or why they would be used for performance enhancement.

On the off-hand you're looking for something that requires a doctor's prescription, it can easily be procured. You don't even need a doctor to write the script.

This report is more than likely made up. I don't believe in a million years any of this happened the way it was written, especially the reasons for the attack and the moto driver yelling out "Sapo!!!" to the driver minutes after he leaves the bike shop simply because he went in to ask about PED's.

In fact, I'm convinced the story is complete BS.

I am no position to know what is happening in Colombia re drugs but I found the info about about the racing in the 80s interesting. I remember many of those riders. The journalist who wrote the book about the Colombians seems to polarize opinions. Many don't seem to respect him but he has been around the sport for a long time. I think the info about Fignon having trouble with the Colombians is true. I have not read Fignon's autobiography but I know he mentioned the racing scene in Colombia.

 

[PATOMACPATO]

This story is so implausible on so many levels it doesn't make any sense.

Anyone who is looking for PEDs in Colombia would NEVER go to a bike shop. Why pay jacked-up black market prices when there is no black market? Absolutely ludicrous.

A bike shop may be good for for advice on dosages and administration, but ONLY IF you know people there who also dope and feel comfortable enough to talk about it openly with them.

There is absolutely no stigma with talking openly about PED's in Colombia amongst friends in the amateur ranks. I don't know about the pros. I would assume they would not be forthcoming at all for the obvious reasons of discretion.

There is no PED "Mafia" in Colombia. Anything you want you can get at a pharmacy without resorting to black marketeering. More often than not, this alleged "Mafia" consists of a very pretty young lady who works as a counter clerk, who probably won't know what these products are for outside their legitimately prescribed purposes, or why they would be used for performance enhancement.

On the off-hand you're looking for something that requires a doctor's prescription, it can easily be procured. You don't even need a doctor to write the script.

This report is more than likely made up. I don't believe in a million years any of this happened the way it was written, especially the reasons for the attack and the moto driver yelling out "Sapo!!!" to the driver minutes after he leaves the bike shop simply because he went in to ask about PED's.

In fact, I'm convinced the story is complete BS.

Nope.. I live in Colombia and YOU CAN NOT GET EPO, AICAR and GW... on a regular pharmacy, you have to restore to the black market.

This is not BS, it's real and happend!!