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zealot66 said:Im new to the forum. Riding for a few years but was wondering if there is any consensus on who the clean riders are ? probably a dumb question but .....![]()
luckyboy said:(Most) French riders?
This is what I think anyway, and why I like em (and the attacks)
CentralCaliBike said:I would have a difficult time stating a particular nationality is clean since I believe that human traits do not know national boundaries.
It is possible some may think that the French riders are clean because they tend not to be dominant in the GC, however, the opposite of that logic would be that dominance is circumstantial evidence of doping. Not sure I want to buy into that claim either.
Dr. Maserati said:Just a clarification - you are certainly correct that human traits do not know international boundaries. However after the Festina Affair in 1998 new anti-doping laws were enacted in France and all the athletes living there are subject to at least 4 controls per year - in effect the French have had a system of the Bio-Passport in place for many years.
While not a perfect system - it has narrowed the opportunity for their athletes to dope. The most successful French cyclist of the last decade is arguably Jalabert - he set up residence in Switzerland![]()
Von Mises said:Do you include also non-french cyclists? Those who live in France and/or ride for French teams?
Dr. Maserati said:Just a clarification - you are certainly correct that human traits do not know international boundaries. However after the Festina Affair in 1998 new anti-doping laws were enacted in France and all the athletes living there are subject to at least 4 controls per year - in effect the French have had a system of the Bio-Passport in place for many years.
While not a perfect system - it has narrowed the opportunity for their athletes to dope. The most successful French cyclist of the last decade is arguably Jalabert - he set up residence in Switzerland![]()
zealot66 said:I used to be in a sport that steroids and test were a mainstay and it took months to get it out of your system. Is there any info out there on how riders avoid doping controls ?
CentralCaliBike said:I will certainly buy this logic as to why French riders are cleaner than others, at least as to the ones living in France.
Animal said:Me.
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There's one major, and I mean battleship sized, hole in your logic. Certainly it would be idiotic for him to dope if his current performance is clean, but if he is on dope then all those wins, his huge future and potential is probably in large part because of the doping. In that case the "to much to lose" argument works against him cleaning up, not staying clean. No sense in changing a winning model.dimspace said:dave millar lived in france..
not being a fanboy, but obvioulsy the fact i am british will draw that allegation... But cav.. i have no reason to know why he would dope.. Young, dominating the world, and with a massive future ahead of him, the potential to become the greatest ever sprinter... there is surely too much to lose..
maybe in a f ew years time when hes struggling a bit he might try something to keep himself on top, and then do a bit of coke to cover it up... ooh.. who does that sound like..![]()
dimspace said:dave millar lived in france..![]()
Race Radio said:But David held a British license and was not subject to the longitudinal controls the French riders are.
Cerberus said:There's one major, and I mean battleship sized, hole in your logic. Certainly it would be idiotic for him to dope if his current performance is clean, but if he is on dope then all those wins, his huge future and potential is probably in large part because of the doping. In that case the "to much to lose" argument works against him cleaning up, not staying clean. No sense in changing a winning model.
Besides, that argument applies to all succesfull riders. Or doesn't apply as the case may be. It makes far more sense to suspect doping based on succes, than to rule it out.
Even if there'd be fallout at most indicates that the team wouldn't want him to use doping, not that he actaully doesn't. Of cause they might have an anti-doping program running, but the problem is that even the most rigerous programs only limit the amount of doping you can use, they don't prevent it 100%.dimspace said:i can see your point.. one further reason i am likely to think that cav is clean is the amount of riding he has done for the british track team, which i an pretty sure is 100% clean.. the fallout in britain if a pubclicly funded (through the lotterY) sporting olympic enterprise was found to be using PED's would be massive.. it would be heads rolling from the bottom to the very top, including ministerial level.. yes, some will say Brad was/is part of the track team, in which case, the fact brad doesnt rider on teh track anymore would explain how he has had time to take drugs without british cycling to check up on him...
Cerberus said:s a aside if Cavendish is clean then sprinters clearly don't gain much from the amount of doping they can get away with. If they did it just wouldn't be possible for a clean rider to dominate the way Cavendish does.
dimspace said:but surely they can still be visited by french testers?
and sorry... for some reason i dont have too much faith in french testing procedures and labs.. i think the french riders are cleaner than others, but i dont think its because of the testing over there.. i think its more a mentality