Clean Cyclists ?

[Escarabajo]

the french authorities just keep the positives secret... its not like they get much uci testing for podiums and wins is it..

there is of course the other argument... the french must be clean cos they are crap...

I agree with you in some of your comments, but I just can not believe that a whole nation just goes south for so many years because of an unknown reason. I mean, they love cycling I just don't understand why can they be so bad for so long? They only ones that get a break are the riders that have been related with doping like: Virenque, Moreau and Jalabert. I understand that it is human nature to cheat in competitions so French belong to the human race, so therefore they must cheat too, right? So certainly there must be a disconnect somewhere.

In some countries there is a lot more crime than in others. So certainly there must be different reasons to explain the differences. I know they way they treat the criminal justice in all countries is one of the reasons. In the same way you have to give the benefit of the doubt to the French antidoping system.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Anonymous]

sorry, ive not yet figured out how to express sarcasm over the internet...

I actually think part of the french problem, results wise is because they are so insular.. so many of the teams concentrate purely on the domestic season, with occasional forays into the rest of europe, which with two teams losing their pt status is only going to get worse... My feelings are that some of the french riders and teams simply lack the experience that some of the other major teams has...

i know what i mean, i just cant explain it..

 

[riobonito92]

Re: The French

There could be many reasons for the decline of French cycling that have nothing to do with doping. Perhaps they have been slow to adopt new training and organizational methods. Perhaps their teams have less money. Perhaps French youth became more interested in football, rugby or other, non-sporting activities. In other sports, the fortunes of countries rise and fall for reasons that have nothing to do with dope: e.g. US men's tennis, West Indies cricket, German football.

 

[poupou]

The french monitoring health system is not build to catch dopers but to protect health of athletes. Doping, especially in case of long abuse, change health parameter. By monitoring people on their whole career, change in body can be detected. So it's possible to prevent dopers to race and to target them with other normal AD tests. It's like the hematocrit check, if too high a rider cannot race. It's the same, if the different health parameters are not in the limits, they are said ill and out of competition.

I do believe that blood transfusion could be used rarely by french riders but because of criminal anti-doping laws, it would be difficult to find someone who would help them, a 7 year prison jail and 500.000 euros fines are the risk on french soil, or outside France for a French.

French riders had great hopes in new committment of UCI in doping fight but the slow improvement could "force" them to jump into the darkside as seen with L'Hotellerie.

 

[Anonymous]

But cav.. i have no reason to know why he would dope.. Young, dominating the world, and with a massive future ahead of him, the potential to become the greatest ever sprinter... there is surely too much to lose..

The same could be said about armstrong... well excluding the young, and massive future part... but the guy was dominating the tour, and he has so so so much to lose if he's busted NOW!, so why come out of retirement to dope?

Seriously, I think LA is currently clean (i'm not trying to start an LA blood profile debate here), but nobody will agree with me, so i accept i'm the only one.

I'd put GC guys like Evans, VDV, LL, the "diesel" type of riders as clean given they never put in performances where they drive up a mountain and gain 2 minutes, or dominate a TT by a massive margin.

I suspect 99% of the top sprinters are clean as well, so Cav, Boonen, Friere, Hushovd

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

The same could be said about armstrong... well excluding the young, and massive future part... but the guy was dominating the tour, and he has so so so much to lose if he's busted NOW!, so why come out of retirement to dope?

He knows he won't be busted. He has immunity, as those who govern, run and survive on the sport know that if Lance goes down, all the new fans that are making them rich will run away and everyone loses money.

It really is that simple, and Lance knows it.

 

[Cerberus]

The same could be said about armstrong... well excluding the young, and massive future part... but the guy was dominating the tour, and he has so so so much to lose if he's busted NOW!, so why come out of retirement to dope?

That argument actually is valid, since whether his original performance was fueled or not he's already gotten away with it so why run the risk? It does however depend on Armstrong looking on the matter the same way we do, and considering his blood profile, I'm inclined to think he doesn't.

 

[sgreene]

I place some faith in those who have had a definite decrease in performance from the time they were proved to be or presumably using a full on doping program. That means riders like Millar, Cunego, Zabriskie"

That's strange, I've never once heard any doping suspicions about Zabriskie...

 

[sgreene]

It makes far more sense to suspect doping based on succes, than to rule it out.

Cerberus, how does a rider earn your trust in pro cycling? It sounds like being successful automatically disqualifies them. How do you define success? How do you get excited about following pro cycling if you distrust every outstanding performance? Wow, that must suck...

 

[Oldman]

That's strange, I've never once heard any doping suspicions about Zabriskie...

Me neither and I've watched him be hugely strong since he was a junior. Never quick but always a talented TT'er and respectable climber. He avoided most of the US National team squad of that time: George H, Tyler H, Christian VdV, Lance A, Frankie A...
It's possible you get tired during a season and need to rest; unless you are on some regimen.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Those sorts of riders might not be completely clean, but it appears that they are not doing what they were in the past. Let's call them "cleanish."

I would agree with this, as it applies to major names.

No proper HGH test yet is there?

There is one, but it reportedly only catches those within hours of doping, and likely large amounts. Expect only someone completely stupid to get caught.

Here's a partial list of potential "bread and water" clean riders:

David Millar
Dan Martin
Daryl Impey
Marco Pinotti
Dan Fleeman
Cameron Meyer
Peter Stetina
Ben Jaques-Maynes
Robbie Hunter
Pieter Jacobs
Philip Deignan
Daniel Lloyd
Adam Blythe
Mike Creed
Nico Eeckhout
Steve Cummings
Nicolas Roche
Olivier Kaisen
Barney Storey

Many more, could be wrong on a few, but remember, I used the word "potential".

Go here for more (BikePure.org) Though plenty of clean riders who haven't signed on to BP, don't get me wrong.

With his results so far off, one could guess Floyd Landis should be added, but I don't completely trust him. Don't completely trust anyone in the top 10 of any major GT either these days. Maybe a handful in the top 50.

 

[zealot66]

interesting..........With LA, who knows. I dont believe he has never doped. But I find it hard to imagine what would happen if LA were to test positive. He has whole organizations built on his personality. Never underestimate ego but what does he have to gain by potentially being caught at this stage of his life. Like ive said earlier, I was in a sport where steroids and test were aids, after a person had done every thing else possible. It didnt make them the athlete, it just gave them an edge.

Illstick to enjoying the sport and challenging myself. At my age, there isnt any realistic hope of competing at a high level but the science of doping has always been interesting..

 

[Anonymous]

Here's a partial list of potential "bread and water" clean riders:

David Millar
.........Barney Storey
.

not sure about pinnotti... too many italians have been caught for my liking, although i know its wrong to assume that one nationality are all the same.. same reason i would never swear a german rider was clean... or an american one come to that...

galls me to say it but i think the aussies could actually be the cleanest nation.. (well behind the irish)

 

[luckyboy]

How many riders (since the 90s) would people say have certainly (or as near as you can get to being certain) been clean?

Bassons?

 

[Mambo95]

Here's a partial list of potential "bread and water" clean riders:

Philip Deignan

Don't completely trust anyone in the top 10 of any major GT either these days. Maybe a handful in the top 50.

At least try and be consistent with your guesswork

 

[Escarabajo]

How many riders (since the 90s) would people say have certainly (or as near as you can get to being certain) been clean?

Bassons?

Lemond.

.....................

 

[Ripper]

Not me

Not me! I am currently taking claritin cold and sinus. So I would be busted for pseudoephedrine hydrochloride I guess I should hope I don't get a random test

And the subject of not ... how about
1. Not Armstrong
2. Not Contador
3. Not Horner (what the heck, let's just say not Astana, I wouldn't be surprised if JB was still taking something)

 

[Ripper]

I have a sneaking suspicion Cunego is. And Evans. And possibly the Martins (both Dan and Tony). I always heard Zabriskie was as well.

 

[luckyboy]

I'd like Tony Martin to be. Columbia though..

 

[blaxland]

evans=clean
gerrans=clean
meyer=clean
bobridge=clean
fulgsang=clean
breschel=clean
gesink=clean
these are just my beliefs,lets hope i dont get proven wrong in the future.....all aussie cyclists clean....

 

[pmcg76]

evans=clean
gerrans=clean
meyer=clean
bobridge=clean
fulgsang=clean
breschel=clean
gesink=clean
these are just my beliefs,lets hope i dont get proven wrong in the future.....all aussie cyclists clean....

What did Rory Sutherland get done for a few years back.

 

[53 x 11]

What did Rory Sutherland get done for a few years back.

+Nathan O'Neill.

But yeah, I hope that your list is clean, especially as there is a friend of mine on it.

 

[Runitout]

evans=clean
gerrans=clean
meyer=clean
bobridge=clean
fulgsang=clean
breschel=clean
gesink=clean
these are just my beliefs,lets hope i dont get proven wrong in the future.....all aussie cyclists clean....

Stephens
Sutherland
Vinnicombe
Davis
O'Neill
French

Well, I don't have any illusions about the present generation of Australian cycling. I don't see why they'd be any different from those racing five or ten years ago. Which Meyer brother do you think is clean?

(I do hope you're right, btw).

I doubt that Saxo are choirboys. Or Gesink for that matter.

 

[BroDeal]

That's strange, I've never once heard any doping suspicions about Zabriskie...

That is because you are gullible enough to believe Armstrong and cannot think for yourself.

Zabriskie rode for both Bruyneel and Riis, the two managers who are leading the poll for the dirtiest DS/manager. We know that Armstrong was using EPO in 1999. We know from Vaughters and Andreu that Armstrong actively encouraged his teammates to dope. We know from FLandis via Vaughters that Postal was using blood doping during the time Landis (and Zabriskie) rode for the team. Zabriskie used to be one of the best time trialists in the world. He beat Armstrong in 2005. He was in his mid twenties. He also got married in 2005.

In 2006 his best friend in the peloton and the person who he shared a residence with in Europe was busted for testosterone and had his life and career destroyed. Zabriskie's performance drops off. He is still a good time trialist, but he is not as good as he used to be. He is like Millar, who is also a good time trialist but not what he used to be. This is true even though Zabriskie should have gotten better in his late twenties. Contrast this with Leipheimer who is on the wrong side of thirty, goes back to Bruyneel, and continues to get better even though he should be getting worse.

He also joins Garmin, where Vaughters has said that he wants to create an environment where riders are not forced to dope in order to get results to keep their jobs. I suspect that Zabriske decided that the consequences to both his career and his family of getting caught doping were too much to risk, so he either stopped dopping or stopped the most risky stuff.

 

[BroDeal]

interesting..........With LA, who knows. I dont believe he has never doped. But I find it hard to imagine what would happen if LA were to test positive. He has whole organizations built on his personality. Never underestimate ego but what does he have to gain by potentially being caught at this stage of his life.

The problem with this sort of thinking is that the same logic can easily be applied to any year after 1999. After winning one TdF using EPO, why should he risk everything by dopig to win another. Why not stop after three or five or six? What we can look at is actual performance. Armstrong doped in 1999 but his performance never decreased. There was not a drop that would indicate that he went off the sauce. Armstrong's blood profile in 2009 looks suspicious. His reticulocytes went to half their normal value during the Tour. Given his history it is a pretty good bet that he continued to dope.

Like ive said earlier, I was in a sport where steroids and test were aids, after a person had done every thing else possible. It didnt make them the athlete, it just gave them an edge.

Steroids and testosterone are not EPO and blood doping. Research show very modest to neglible effects for steroids for aaerobic endurance sports. It shows a monsterously huge gain for EPO.