Clean teams in the current peloton.

[taiwan]

No.



Kidding, not really that cynical, but I don't see the point in giving teams a free pass. IDK if any WT team could even afford to be totally clean these days.

 

[the asian]

FDJ has Madiot as DS which says it all

and AG2R has just Houanard who tested positive...

That doesn't mean anything.
Houanard could have got the EPO from his own suppliers, without the team knowing anything.

That's why I said, AG2R do not facilitate doping. Riders on AG2R may dope individually, but i'm quite sure they don't help them to cover up their tracks. and are not turning a blind eye.

Madiot was still with FDJ in 99, but that incident happened a long time ago and nothing in the recent past suggest that FDJ is doping it's riders.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Lol at BMC. I'd name Katyusha before BMC. You may as well have nominated Meridiana.

 

[WinterRider]

You got the poll wrong, its supposed to be "Other/Vino"

I definitely vote for Vino on this one..... wait, what was the question again?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

lol@ AG2R voters.

I know a French guy who specializes in dopign cases and according to him AG2R is the worst of all french teams, followed closely by Europcar. Fdjeux however is the complete opposite

AG2R is full of chargers however

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

lol@ AG2R voters.

I know a French guy who specializes in dopign cases and according to him AG2R is the worst of all french teams, followed closely by Europcar. Fdjeux however is the complete opposite

AG2R is full of chargers however

oh sounds like a very reliable source

 

[burning]

lol@ AG2R voters.

I know a French guy who specializes in dopign cases and according to him AG2R is the worst of all french teams, followed closely by Europcar. Fdjeux however is the complete opposite

AG2R is full of chargers however

Should I believe in Roche's words or some random French guys words?

Well that guy busted with epo is probably an idiot who is trying to get points for a contract

 

[hrotha]

lol@ AG2R voters.

I know a French guy who specializes in dopign cases and according to him AG2R is the worst of all french teams, followed closely by Europcar. Fdjeux however is the complete opposite

AG2R is full of chargers however

That more or less matches my impressions, although I don't have any insider knowledge about it. I would place Europcar on top myself.

 

[Fatclimber]

lol@ AG2R voters.

I know a French guy who specializes in dopign cases and according to him AG2R is the worst of all french teams, followed closely by Europcar. Fdjeux however is the complete opposite

AG2R is full of chargers however

Is he the same scientist that emailed liggett?

The doping suspicion index (for what it's worth) released a couple years ago showed almost identical ratings of the 2 teams:

Rating 0: ag2r 4 riders, fdj 4 riders
Rating 1: ag2r 1 rider, fdj 1 rider
Rating 2: ag2r 2 riders, fdj 2 riders
Rating 3: ag2r 1 rider, fdj 1 rider
Rating 7: fdj 1 rider
Rating 8: ag2r 1 rider

 

[ElChingon]

I'll wait till the fallout is complete.

 

[luckyboy]

FDJ + Cofidis. Garmin too.

 

[MellowJohnny]

Cofidis Not a chance

 

[luckyboy]

For something that happened 10 years ago?

 

[TrackCynic]

BMC? Are you joking? Jim Ochowicz???

I quote Mr Kimmage, (and couldn't agree with him more). BTW, let's have Kimmage as President of the UCI.
"I have said it a long time now – we need root and branch surgery. No place for Bjarne Riis, no place for Johan Bruyneel, no place for Jim Ochowicz, John Lelangue. We will look at what people have done and said about doping for the last 20-odd years; we’ll make up a list. ‘Okay, this is how we will move on.’ It is maybe idealistic and impractical, but that certainly is where I would start.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12721 ... z29bdHz9mi"

 

[Ferminal]

Where is the "none" option?

Although it depends on your definition of "clean team".

Does the team simply have to espouse and publicly defend clean values, or do all its riders actually have to be clean?

 

[briztoon]

What are peoples opinion of GreenEdge in regards to being a "clean" team? White not with standing.

 

[hrotha]

What are peoples opinion of GreenEdge in regards to being a "clean" team? White not with standing.

I don't believe in GreenEdge. Not that I think they're particularly dirty, mind, but with Stephens at the wheel... And I'm not even talking about his days as an ONCE and Festina rider, but about his involvement with Caisse. Add Matt White, Cycling Australia's fondness to look the other way and some surprising performances this season.

 

[luckyboy]

Where is the "none" option?

Although it depends on your definition of "clean team".

Does the team simply have to espouse and publicly defend clean values, or do all its riders actually have to be clean?

I'd say a clean team would be one in which the management encourages clean riding within the team, preferably speaks out about the subject.

Is it realistic to expect a team to control every rider? I mean, they should, but there's always potential for a rider to work with an outsider illicitly.

Just talking about being clean isn't enough without implementing the ideology within the team, obviously.


In the opposite direction, I'd say a dirty team = runs a programme (outsourced to a preferred doctor or in-house doctors), encourages doping (but goes with public 'bad apple' stance if caught), or just turns a blind eye to doping on the team.
Obviously the last of those is pretty outdated now with teams having to keep everyone's values looking alright.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Movistar and Lampre are clean like the others the op mentioned.

 

[blackcat]

no clean teams.

Any poll should disqualify those from voting for their home nations team.

Like Zizek said, the ROW should get the vote for POTUS

 

[luckyboy]

I don't believe in GreenEdge. Not that I think they're particularly dirty, mind, but with Stephens at the wheel... And I'm not even talking about his days as an ONCE and Festina rider, but about his involvement with Caisse. Add Matt White, Cycling Australia's fondness to look the other way and some surprising performances this season.

I'm unsure about them.

GreenEdge's doctor is Manuel Rodriguez Alonso who has worked at ONCE, Mapei and QuickStep in the past, with Sinkewitz saying Rodriguez doped him. He has worked for Real Madrid at some point.

Originally I attributed all of the above to Manuel Rodriguez Bastida, who was sacked from Xacobeo for refusing to dope riders.


Serge Niamke (formerly of Cofidis and Garmin) is the other GreenEdge doctor that I know of. Nothing on him.

Their chief medical officer is Peter Barnes, having worked with Australian Olympic teams, AIS, a football team, and the Tour Down Under.



EDIT: Messed up this post with mixing up the two doctors called Manuel Rodrigez. See below for details of the two.

 

[Ferminal]

I'd say a clean team would be one in which the management encourages clean riding within the team, preferably speaks out about the subject.

Is it realistic to expect a team to control every rider? I mean, they should, but there's always potential for a rider to work with an outsider illicitly.

Just talking about being clean isn't enough without implementing the ideology within the team, obviously.


In the opposite direction, I'd say a dirty team = runs a programme (outsourced to a preferred doctor or in-house doctors), encourages doping (but goes with public 'bad apple' stance if caught), or just turns a blind eye to doping on the team.
Obviously the last of those is pretty outdated now with teams having to keep everyone's values looking alright.

The problem is, if someone rides for a "clean team" then there is the automatic assumption that the individual is clean.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Weird that the team that dominated the season from start to finish has no poll option?

I'm unsure about them.
One of their doctors is Juan Manuel Rodríguez Bastida,
...
And Real Madrid at some point apparently.

Is the Real Madrid connection relevant? I'll go check the soccer thread. The reason I ask is that the ex-head physiologist of Real Madrid, Dr Carlos Gonzalez, did a phlebotomy course in 2009 then moved to Garmin medical team for 2010. I think JV dodged a bullet on that one by not winning a GT in 2010... The same year White was a DS.

 

[luckyboy]

Actually, scrap that. There are two doctors called Manuel Rodriguez.

Manuel Rodriguez Bastida was the one sacked from Rock Racing for "no reason" and then fired from Xacobeo for refusing to dope riders. At the bottom of that article, Rodriguez said he was considering an offer from a team but has doubts whether or not to go back to cycling as it is 'too squalid'. The article also says he worked for Euskaltel and Relax-Fuenlabrada in the past.

Manuel Rodriguez Alonso was the one at ONCE (2000), Mapei (2001-02), QuickStep (2003-04), Real Madrid and now GreenEdge.
An article from 2004 about him, worked for the Spanish Canoe Federation for 11 years before going into cycling for 5 years, and then moving back to canoeing lead the biomedical program.
In 2002 he was co-author on a paper about exercise intensity during off-road cycling competition with Aldo Sassi, who he would've worked with at Mapei of course. The top 7 entries here have also been co-authored by him.
Sinkewitz said that Rodriguez doped him while he was at QuickStep.
From 2007 to at least 2009 Alonso was/is a professor of nutrition counseling and sports performance for Real Madrid.
He was also doctor for the Spanish Olympic Committee in 96, 00, 04 Olympics (unclear whether just for the canoeing or a general doctor).
Here's another article about him, talking about his career and stuff about GreenEdge/Australia.

I see that Dr Carlos Gonzalez was at Real Madrid in the 08/09 season, so they would've overlapped.


Seems that GreenEdge got the wrong Manuel Rodriguez.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

nice work, lucky, good digging.