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CMS Doping in sport revelations/discussion

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samhocking

Mar 13, 2013
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Hard to tell just from Dans tweets what Freeman was stressing about. Sounded like confusion he thought Jackson meant Freeman had sent the reply to Battista. If Jackson is suggesting Battista's reply was because the Testogel was for Freeman himself as Peters guessed it might be as a witness, I really don't know why Freeman isn't saying so as that would remove these final charges it was for an athlete(s).
 
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gillan1969

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samhocking said:
Hard to tell just from Dans tweets what Freeman was stressing about. Sounded like confusion he thought Jackson meant Freeman had sent the reply to Battista. If Jackson is suggesting Battista's reply was because the Testogel was for Freeman himself as Peters guessed it might be as a witness, I really don't know why Freeman isn't saying so as that would remove these final charges it was for an athlete(s).
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yup...you would guess he would just tell the truth wouldn't you....on no...wait a minute....lols
 
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fmk_RoI

fmk_RoI

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An exchange like this makes you wonder about the competence of those cross-examining Freeman. First rule is only ask questions you know the answer to. Jackson does not appear to know the correct answer to this one:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1315651824398016512
View: https://twitter.com/tomcary_tel/status/1315651824398016512


What's being suggested is that Freeman was using iron to boost testosterone (or more precisely to prepare to boost testosterone with the Testogel).

https://twitter.com/x/status/1315650212715786241
View: https://twitter.com/seaningle/status/1315650212715786241


Those with an understanding of sports medicine might raise an eyebrow at that line of questioning and suggest that low testosterone can cause low iron and so, in order to keep the blood's O2 levels high, you lash in additional (legal) iron.
 
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samhocking

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Good to get some figures to it today, if only for National-level UKAD. Their TUE advice section suggested it was relatively accepted as it's part of their hay fever guidance as an option.

UK Anti-Doping receives Therapeutic Use Exemption (TUE) requests for the one-off use of intramuscular corticosteroid injections to treat hay fever. Applications must be submitted in advance of treatment and be supported by medical evidence to justify therapeutic use.
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Will be interesting if Wiggins & Hargreaves permit O'Rourke to submit Wiggins medical evidence if it gets as far as Lawton being called by O'Rourke.
 
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samhocking

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TUEs say 2011 administered 29th June and 2012 on 26th of June so before tour started as per WADA guidance. 2011 RAST and Endoscopy performed by ENT Simon Hargreaves (Bolton NHS) sometime in June confirming rhinitus after >3 years on maximal topical treatment. Looks like a typo on the Endoscopy with June meant, not July.

In 2012 he sees Simon Hargreaves again in June just after Dauphine, this time after being on maximal treatment of Flixotide, Ventolin, Calrityn, Avamys & Opticron and this season Hargreaves sees elevated RAST and Nasal Polyps observed in the Endoscopy confirming allergy again. It would seem rightly so Hargreaves has seen Wiggins nearest to the peak of the rhinitis to diagnose it while taking the maximum doses within WADA rules to control it and as practical after Dauphine to then write Freeman the TUE justification for UCI/WADA to grant TUE for IM Kenalog for Tour. Of course he won Dauphine in 2011 & 2012 without the TUEs anyway on the maximal treatments allowed within the rules anyway.
 
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samhocking

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Freeman said, he voluntarily handed over his 2014 laptop to UKAD. UKAD returned it to him and he then destroyed it as the keyboard was faulty and couldn't be used but assumed UKAD must have a copy of the data for GMC. UKAD didn't make a copy of it, but he handed GMC the one he'd just screwdrivered. Really UKAD must take some blame. I mean, fair-enough they closed Jiffygate with no evidence, but come-on, I would assume they at least copied the HD, it's only a Macbook, it's not exactly difficult to run a backup to an external HD.
 
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Parker

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samhocking said:
Technically, anti-doping call it the 'event period' I think and is what defines IC or OOC for the no-needles policy etc and that switch is midnight. However, without even a known substance, its method, a time it was administered or even a rider or a witness it's all pointless speculation anyway.
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It was the rule. They've changed it since now though as it was stupid. Now you're OOC once you have fulfilled any post competition anti-doping obligations. So even if Wiggins fully admitted to injecting the triamthingy on the bus after the race, it's unlikely he'd be charged as it's a defunct rule.
 
fmk_RoI

fmk_RoI

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Looking at the line of questioning being undertaken - Sky's récup programme - it's worth taking a step back and asking what have we actually learned? Eleven months ago we knew this:
fmk_RoI said:
A lot of sound and fury at the MPTS/ Freeman hearings, but not much light. To try and step back a bit from that: what was actually happening inside Team Sky in 2011?

The team is a year old and its first year has been hard on the ego. It hasn't met the expectations it set for itself. In Moore's Sky's the Limit, we see 2010 ending with Brailsford saying he'll have to consider some of the expectations he himself set, such as ZTP, and offering ambiguity on where the ethical line he wouldn't cross actually is. In Wiggins's My Time, we see Lombardia ending with him down in his cups, half-cut in a half-finished hotel, having walked out of the team lodgings.

What responses do we see?
  • We see Wiggins getting a bollocking and told to either man up or step down
  • We see two doctors, Leinders and Bartolucci, being brought in toward the end of 2010
  • We see one doctor, Hulse, being let go
  • We see an IV récup programme agreed for the Giro but the no needles policy scuppering it
  • We see the TUE system being gamed for Wiggins, with regard to his Triamcinolone
  • We see a box of Testogel sachets arriving in Manchester
  • We see a BC staffer sent to courier a Jiffy bag
  • We see more pressure added to the boiler with Wiggins's performance at the Tour
  • We see Froome facing into having to find a new team for 2012, or take a pay cut, only to pull a rabbit out of the hat at the Vuelta
What else do we know was happening, specifically within that narrow time frame, the end of the 2010 Tour through to the end of the 2011 season?
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Have we learned anything new of note in the time since?
 
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samhocking

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You might be right, I haven't read what the event period is recently Parker.
One of the DCMS's whistleblowers did say he thought the package was probably Fluimicil, but might have included needles because although it is used as Freeman and Wiggins claimed it was at the training camp via nebulizer, it is also used as an anti-oxident via injection in training. Bartolucci said you wouldn't inject either fluimicil for recovery or triamcinolone for performance a few hours after the race as there is no race the next day, recovery is simply an issue when you have to race 3 weeks, not after the last day of a stage race.
 
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