CMS Doping in sport revelations/discussion

[samhocking]

Freeman not spilling any beans after little chat with the Froomy salbutamol lawyer

Bit late by then as UKAD began the jiffybag investigation Oct 2016. DCMS hearings were Dec 2016 so Morgan was 3 months late as Freeman had already answered to UKAD. Also, the Testogel side to UKADs investigation came out in 2019 iirc.

 

[gillan1969]

Technically it's only prohibited if intended for athletes without justification. For Sutton, WADA's 2.6.2 doesn't actually apply to Freemans order anyway. GMC's QC was actually wrong, claiming under 2.6.2. Freeman would need justification for ordering testogel for even Sutton and the fact Freeman wasn't aware he was in fact allowed to order prohibited substances for Sutton without it being subject to WADA, doesn't actually change his motive for re. Sutton anyway.

lols...you mean his claimed motive..... what's funnier than the testimony are those who give it any credence.....sometimes the dog does eat the homework eh sam? .....

 

[samhocking]

Freeman's lack of knowledge within 2.6.2 makes no difference to Freeman ordering Testogel for Sutton. 2.6.2 only applies to athletes IC and OOC and I'm pretty sure Freeman knows Testosterone is on the prohibited list for athletes without even reading it - anyone does by default. So unless GMC have an athlete it does relate to, they only have a belief it wasn't for Sutton based soley on Sutton saying it wasn't for him. The panel is going to need a bit more than that to make a decision with based on Sutton is actually a proven bully with several others already, which supports Freeman more than you think lol!

 

[gillan1969]

Freeman - “I find this cross-examination intimidating & stressful..I can’t understand what’s gone on here..I’ve lost my focus. I need to concentrate”
Yup...that's the point of a cross examination........still....would be pretty straighforward if you told the truth.....lols

 

[samhocking]

That was simply confusion over Battista's reply to his email and him thinking he sent it to Battista not receiving it. It doesn't even make sense to me how Jackson was suggesting Battista joking to Freeman he ordered it for himself due to a 100m rash was a message to Freeman he was in trouble with Peters over the order? Freeman at a bit of a disadvantage over emails because GMC have access to them, Freeman doesn't he has to reply to Jackson based on his memory of 9 years ago. I couldn't even remember one detail like a one line joke from that long ago.

 

[MartinGT]

It's a mess tbh. Freeman is wrapped up in so many lies now he doesn't know the truth.

 

[gillan1969]

That was simply confusion over Battista's reply to his email and him thinking he sent it to Battista not receiving it. It doesn't even make sense to me how Jackson was suggesting Battista joking to Freeman he ordered it for himself due to a 100m rash was a message to Freeman he was in trouble with Peters over the order? Freeman at a bit of a disadvantage over emails because GMC have access to them, Freeman doesn't he has to reply to Jackson based on his memory of 9 years ago. I couldn't even remember one detail like a one line joke from that long ago.

yup...quite simple isn't it...so probably no reason to stress about it...and yet.... oh what a tangled web........

 

[samhocking]

Hard to tell just from Dans tweets what Freeman was stressing about. Sounded like confusion he thought Jackson meant Freeman had sent the reply to Battista. If Jackson is suggesting Battista's reply was because the Testogel was for Freeman himself as Peters guessed it might be as a witness, I really don't know why Freeman isn't saying so as that would remove these final charges it was for an athlete(s).

 

[gillan1969]

Hard to tell just from Dans tweets what Freeman was stressing about. Sounded like confusion he thought Jackson meant Freeman had sent the reply to Battista. If Jackson is suggesting Battista's reply was because the Testogel was for Freeman himself as Peters guessed it might be as a witness, I really don't know why Freeman isn't saying so as that would remove these final charges it was for an athlete(s).

yup...you would guess he would just tell the truth wouldn't you....on no...wait a minute....lols

 

[samhocking]

yup...you would guess he would just tell the truth wouldn't you....on no...wait a minute....lols

Same difference for himself or Sutton in terms of GMC licence and for himself much softer on BC & Sky senior management too.

 

[fmk_RoI]

An exchange like this makes you wonder about the competence of those cross-examining Freeman. First rule is only ask questions you know the answer to. Jackson does not appear to know the correct answer to this one:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1315651824398016512

View: https://twitter.com/tomcary_tel/status/1315651824398016512


What's being suggested is that Freeman was using iron to boost testosterone (or more precisely to prepare to boost testosterone with the Testogel).

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1315650212715786241

View: https://twitter.com/seaningle/status/1315650212715786241


Those with an understanding of sports medicine might raise an eyebrow at that line of questioning and suggest that low testosterone can cause low iron and so, in order to keep the blood's O2 levels high, you lash in additional (legal) iron.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Today we did actually learn something interesting:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1315629713793134594

View: https://twitter.com/seaningle/status/1315629713793134594

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1315629541323354118

View: https://twitter.com/tomcary_tel/status/1315629541323354118

 

[samhocking]

Good to get some figures to it today, if only for National-level UKAD. Their TUE advice section suggested it was relatively accepted as it's part of their hay fever guidance as an option.

UK Anti-Doping receives Therapeutic Use Exemption (TUE) requests for the one-off use of intramuscular corticosteroid injections to treat hay fever. Applications must be submitted in advance of treatment and be supported by medical evidence to justify therapeutic use.

Will be interesting if Wiggins & Hargreaves permit O'Rourke to submit Wiggins medical evidence if it gets as far as Lawton being called by O'Rourke.

 

[70kmph]

But that not the point is it, you can't administer during middle of a race...

 

[Parker]

But that not the point is it, you can't administer during middle of a race...

Who is saying they did?

 

[samhocking]

TUEs say 2011 administered 29th June and 2012 on 26th of June so before tour started as per WADA guidance. 2011 RAST and Endoscopy performed by ENT Simon Hargreaves (Bolton NHS) sometime in June confirming rhinitus after >3 years on maximal topical treatment. Looks like a typo on the Endoscopy with June meant, not July.

In 2012 he sees Simon Hargreaves again in June just after Dauphine, this time after being on maximal treatment of Flixotide, Ventolin, Calrityn, Avamys & Opticron and this season Hargreaves sees elevated RAST and Nasal Polyps observed in the Endoscopy confirming allergy again. It would seem rightly so Hargreaves has seen Wiggins nearest to the peak of the rhinitis to diagnose it while taking the maximum doses within WADA rules to control it and as practical after Dauphine to then write Freeman the TUE justification for UCI/WADA to grant TUE for IM Kenalog for Tour. Of course he won Dauphine in 2011 & 2012 without the TUEs anyway on the maximal treatments allowed within the rules anyway.

 

[MartinGT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1315784374537850880

View: https://twitter.com/Maeda_I_W/status/1315784374537850880?s=20


This person seems very knowledgeable about it.

 

[fmk_RoI]

This person seems very knowledgeable about it.

Sam can't help himself.

 

[70kmph]

Freeman's inner chimp is gone haywire. Scathing article in The Times as the evidence is mounting

 

[Parker]

Freeman's inner chimp is gone haywire. Scathing article in The Times as the evidence is mounting

Written by the person who refuses to give evidence in spite of the defence's request

 

[70kmph]

Try keep up, Freeman managed to destroy and failed to make back up records then running a 'clinic' for staff using same methods among other anomalies

 

[Parker]

Try keep up, Freeman managed to destroy and failed to make back up records then running a 'clinic' for staff using same methods among other anomalies

Treating staff members and not keeping adequate records of them are amongst the charges he admitted right from the start. You seem to be nearly a year behind.

 

[samhocking]

Freeman said, he voluntarily handed over his 2014 laptop to UKAD. UKAD returned it to him and he then destroyed it as the keyboard was faulty and couldn't be used but assumed UKAD must have a copy of the data for GMC. UKAD didn't make a copy of it, but he handed GMC the one he'd just screwdrivered. Really UKAD must take some blame. I mean, fair-enough they closed Jiffygate with no evidence, but come-on, I would assume they at least copied the HD, it's only a Macbook, it's not exactly difficult to run a backup to an external HD.

 

[bobbins]

Who is saying they did?

If an injection was administered before midnight on the last day of the Dauphine, that is contrary to anti-doping regs.

Has this been mentioned as having happened?

 

[Parker]

If an injection was administered before midnight on the last day of the Dauphine, that is contrary to anti-doping regs.

Has this been mentioned as having happened?

Since when is several hours after a race has finished 'the middle of a race'?