Contador 2010

[Francois the Postman]

There is nothing 'child like' about Contador. More 'pueblo boy' nonsense. Poor Spanish kid, FFS get real.

Huh?

Can you explain to me how you get from a positive "child-like" attitude to racing, races and people in the context of what I wrote, to suggesting it is akin to the "poor Spanish pueblo kid" drivel that Lance was spouting?

Unless you think that child-like is negative by nature. In which case I pity you.

 

[flicker]

I am telling you Contador is Eddy Merckx Jr.. Now the best rider since Berhnard Hinault. Soon to be better then Berhnard Hinault.

 

[franciep10]

I am telling you Contador is Eddy Merckx Jr.. Now the best rider since Berhnard Hinault. Soon to be better then Berhnard Hinault.

I think you're jumping the pistol

 

[BroDeal]

I am telling you Contador is Eddy Merckx Jr.. Now the best rider since Berhnard Hinault. Soon to be better then Berhnard Hinault.

If he can avoid getting busted for doping then he will rack up a staggering list of wins by career end. He could end up with more GT wins than Merkcx. Hopefully he has plans to race both the Tour and the Vuelta this year.

 

[Francois the Postman]

I think you are misguided about Vino. He has actually shown himself to be an extremely loyal person in several situations. He's not some loose cannon who will betray another person on a whim.

Also, Vino and Alberto have been teammates before. Quite a few of the guys on the current Astana squad were on earlier versions of Astana/Liberty Seguros in years past. They have chosen to return and ride with Vino again. In fact, I remember reading somewhere that AC was set to leave Astana, and that the only reason he is still there is because of Vino.

Vino knows he doesn't have too many more years of riding left, and is preparing for a future managing this team. He has done a good job of helping to select a group of riders, management, and staff that mesh well together - complementary riding styles and personalities.

Vino owes a debt of sorts to AC for staying - it made keeping the ProTour license easier, and it allows Astana to be invited to the TdF and other important races. Prestige and reputation of the team were helped by having AC stay. For that, I fully expect Vino to "reach into his suitcase of courage" and "turn himself inside out" for AC at the Tour. These two men are friends, and seem to have rekindled a very healthy, respectful partnership.

I agree with that. I don't see Vino as disloyal, or as a backstabber. And I don't doubt for one moment that Vino will blow up any chances he has in the Tour if it helped Contador.

But I now also see the returned Vino as a better rider than I thought he was, as I am convinced his rides post ban have been totally within the set limits. To be frank, the level he reached against the field has surprised me. I feared that he would be like Armstrong now. Chasing old glory, and sad to watch, in a way. At the end of last year we saw some glimpses of the Vino legend, strong, exciting and aggressive, but still lacking the boost for the final kick. I thought it was gone, through time or lack of stimulants. That final kick is still there. Legal. That bodes well for the rest of the score settling year.

But is he really ready to can all his Tour dreams if he starts to be very successful this year and Contador shows vulnerability?

I was trying to picture how Vino would feel come September if he actually started to accrue other substantial victories before the Fall, did very well in stage races and GTs, and Contador underperformed during the Tour.

Like you say, he ain't getting younger, and personal ambition must flare up, in that case.

He will only have one real shot left at a TdF victory if this year is in service of Contador, and that is 2011. If he gets onto a GT podium, or he realizes he is strong against the field, that must play on the mind of someone with his ability.

That's what I was driving at. If he comes out of this season feeling like a million bucks, and Contador is not the run-away train he is expected to be, can he tame his own ambitions for the prize everyone would kill for, once. Vino indeed seems indeed loyal and generous to those he counts close, but has also shown to be keen, proud, and very driven.

Since Astana will be Vino's, that means shelving in his TdF dreams for good, or coming to an arrangement with Contador for 2011, or seeing Contador on another team. Which doesn't need to be by a backstabbing blow either. But untamed personal ambition could "blow" having Contador on the Astana roster for 2011.

As a side note, much as I enjoy Contador, I think his strength and attraction is his also his weakness. In my mind, there is still only one rider who can beat Contador at the Tour, and that is Contador. It's a given that he doesn't have the ultimate Tour preparation if the Tour that was your singular goal. And he does tend to unleash onto to the race, rather than try to leash the race. He might struggle more at the Tour than seems likely now. He has the ability to dose and time his attacks. He is also keen and believes in his own abilities.

I haven't discounted the possability that Contador doesn't reign supreme at the Tour, through misjudgement. And isn't guaranteed a successful Summer/Autumn beyond that either.

Vino will also have reachable targets all through the year. So I can certainly see a scenario in which Vino has a real decision to make. If they keep gelling well, keeping Contador on Astana into his management years must be an attractive option to both of them. Who knows, maybe they will both show up at the TdF start in 2011 and let the road decide.

So far Vino is coming out stronger than I thought he would be, and Contador is showing traces of real vulnerability (even beyond the obvious moments and despite the successes). Hints only, if you sniff well. But still.

It could be an interesting Fall conversation between the two of them if the situation arises. No knives required, whatever the outcome of that chat would be. I too think there is too much respect, loyalty and friendship between the two of them. In both directions.

 

[Francois the Postman]

I am telling you Contador is Eddy Merckx Jr.. Now the best rider since Berhnard Hinault. Soon to be better then Berhnard Hinault.

He will need to remain atop a bit longer, and become a lot more successful in the classics to boot, before he would jump that hurdle. He will also have to compensate for cobbles, somehow.

 

[gatete]

I agree with that. I don't see Vino as disloyal, or as a backstabber. And I don't doubt for one moment that Vino will blow up any chances he has in the Tour if it helped Contador.

But I now also see the returned Vino as a better rider than I thought he was, as I am convinced his rides post ban have been totally within the set limits. To be frank, the level he reached against the field has surprised me. I feared that he would be like Armstrong now. Chasing old glory, and sad to watch, in a way. At the end of last year we saw some glimpses of the Vino legend, strong, exciting and aggressive, but still lacking the boost for the final kick. I thought it was gone, through time or lack of stimulants. That final kick is still there. Legal. That bodes well for the rest of the score settling year.

But is he really ready to can all his Tour dreams if he starts to be very successful this year and Contador shows vulnerability?

I was trying to picture how Vino would feel come September if he actually started to accrue other substantial victories before the Fall, did very well in stage races and GTs, and Contador underperformed during the Tour.

Like you say, he ain't getting younger, and personal ambition must flare up, in that case.

He will only have one real shot left at a TdF victory if this year is in service of Contador, and that is 2011. If he gets onto a GT podium, or he realizes he is strong against the field, that must play on the mind of someone with his ability.

That's what I was driving at. If he comes out of this season feeling like a million bucks, and Contador is not the run-away train he is expected to be, can he tame his own ambitions for the prize everyone would kill for, once. Vino indeed seems indeed loyal and generous to those he counts close, but has also shown to be keen, proud, and very driven.

Since Astana will be Vino's, that means shelving in his TdF dreams for good, or coming to an arrangement with Contador for 2011, or seeing Contador on another team. Which doesn't need to be by a backstabbing blow either. But untamed personal ambition could "blow" having Contador on the Astana roster for 2011.

As a side note, much as I enjoy Contador, I think his strength and attraction is his also his weakness. In my mind, there is still only one rider who can beat Contador at the Tour, and that is Contador. It's a given that he doesn't have the ultimate Tour preparation if the Tour that was your singular goal. And he does tend to unleash onto to the race, rather than try to leash the race. He might struggle more at the Tour than seems likely now. He has the ability to dose and time his attacks. He is also keen and believes in his own abilities.

I haven't discounted the possability that Contador doesn't reign supreme at the Tour, through misjudgement. And isn't guaranteed a successful Summer/Autumn beyond that either.

Vino will also have reachable targets all through the year. So I can certainly see a scenario in which Vino has a real decision to make. If they keep gelling well, keeping Contador on Astana into his management years must be an attractive option to both of them. Who knows, maybe they will both show up at the TdF start in 2011 and let the road decide.

So far Vino is coming out stronger than I thought he would be, and Contador is showing traces of real vulnerability (even beyond the obvious moments and despite the successes). Hints only, if you sniff well. But still.

It could be an interesting Fall conversation between the two of them if the situation arises. No knives required, whatever the outcome of that chat would be. I too think there is too much respect, loyalty and friendship between the two of them. In both directions.

Is a bit confusing/contradicting the way AC form shows, in one hand if he's currently at his peak, he may faulter at the Tour, if he shows weakness, he's vulnerable, I guess LA didn't race to show exactly that, sort of like avoid to get the "midgets grow on him" like the spaniards say, I guess it yet another reason why I'm a AC fan.

 

[jaylew]

If he does ride the Giro next year it will be an epic battle between he and Ricco. As much as I dislike the guy, I honestly think he is the one to challenge AC over the next several years and not Andy Schleck (if he can stay out of trouble). And while nowhere near AC standards, his TT appears to be improving.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

I really hope he goes for the double. Even if he fails, respect for trying (when he knows he can skip the giro and probably own the tour with ease).

 

[Ferminal]

Tour will be his 4th GT in a row (if he rides the Vuelta).

Maybe he will test the double in 2011 and if successful, go for the treble in 2012 (although he may have an unofficial treble if he wins the 2010 Vuelta beforehand).

 

[red_flanders]

Is a bit confusing/contradicting the way AC form shows, in one hand if he's currently at his peak, he may faulter at the Tour, if he shows weakness, he's vulnerable, I guess LA didn't race to show exactly that, sort of like avoid to get the "midgets grow on him" like the spaniards say, I guess it yet another reason why I'm a AC fan.

One can have a two peak season, with the first peak typically not being as high as the second. I assume this is what he's doing, but we shall see.

 

[flicker]

If he does ride the Giro next year it will be an epic battle between he and Ricco. As much as I dislike the guy, I honestly think he is the one to challenge AC over the next several years and not Andy Schleck (if he can stay out of trouble). And while nowhere near AC standards, his TT appears to be improving.

Do you really think Ricco can go a year without being busted for a Pos?

 

[KazakhNeRider]

Contador: “It was important to come to the pavé for more security”

 

[ferryman]

Contador: “It was important to come to the pavé for more security”

Just read that on the home page. I like this. Me thinks another wee example of AC upping the pre TDF ante

 

[lagartija]

hola, not sure if this has been brought up ,.........but has anybody noticed that the week , raided , team astana, chalked up a 1st , 2nd and 3rd in the ardennes,........

 

[luckyboy]

1st, 3rd, 3rd!

 

[alberto.legstrong]

Contador: “It was important to come to the pavé for more security”

This is the money quote for me.

Do you think rivals can attack you here?

I think it will be like a wind stage. Everyone is looking forward to get out ahead.

Wind is his kryptonite. I hope it isn't that bad for him.

 

[ferryman]

Huh?

Can you explain to me how you get from a positive "child-like" attitude to racing, races and people in the context of what I wrote, to suggesting it is akin to the "poor Spanish pueblo kid" drivel that Lance was spouting?

Unless you think that child-like is negative by nature. In which case I pity you.

OK I should have read on - apologies.

But really 'like a kid in a sweety shop' and 'child like' attitude to racing. That is just wrong and naive.

AC is a pro cyclist who just happens to be better than everyone else at the moment and so can choose which races he wants to ride and win. There really isn't any more to it than that Im afraid.

ps no need for the pity dig, I have a wife who's job that is!

 

[theswordsman]

Just popped in for the first time in a couple of days (I was distracted by boobquake ). So many riders and teams said their big chance against Contador was on the stage with the cobbles. I think that two days riding the Specialized Roubaix prototype like Cancellara's, getting instruction from Peter Van Petegem, and doing recon on the actual Tour sections might have them thinking a bit. And kudos to Director Sportif Lorenzo LaPage for putting the two guys together. It was also good to see Pereiro and Noval out there.

There's a lot of talk about Contador and the wind - I've seen it in a lot of different threads. I think it's actually just a disadvantage in staff recon so far. The two big instances were the Tour de France and Paris-Nice, if I remember correctly. At the Tour, Columbia had someone drive the stage early and report back about the turn and the wind. It was part of a team strategy from the beginning - Armstrong was a tag along, and some riders from other teams were in the right place at the right time. I won't get into whether or not a future RS member sat up in front of Alberto to help with the split, because I didn't see it. But the bottom line is, that move didn't happen because any rider in the peloton thought of it, but rather a DS or someone from Columbia went the extra mile (in a car) to find out when a move could be made.

Paris-Nice the same thing happened - a crosswind and an attack on a specific curve split the field, with Caisse D'Epargne running the show. After the stage, Valverde gave full credit for the attack and the time gained to the staff member who drove the stage earlier in the day and told them when to make the move. He and Luis Leon Sanchez were the beneficiaries of the intel, but it wasn't either of them showing knowledge or experience or whatever. A guy from the team put in the effort, gained some knowledge, and the team followed instructions.

After my earlier post about the Giro, Cycling Weekly contacted Team Astana, who said that Contador had no agreement with the Giro. Before I read that, I was thinking that Alberto was following Martinelli's guidance to go for more in each year of his career. To announce participation in a race more than a year in advance is a big deal. (It definitely is for the Giro, which is apparently taking the competitive threat of the Tour of California seriously. If you haven't heard, the three RAI TV stations have increased coverage from 42 hours to 88 - an average of more than four hours per stage, and some TV channel will carry the race in 150 countries).

But since Astana claims no deal exists, and Zomegnan said it specifically happened the previous day in Liege, maybe Alberto is making specific plans to be on a different team next year. Normally he wouldn't even commit to a race until he's looked at the stages to see if the course suits his strengths. He must have some kind of assurance of that ahead of time, because he doesn't rush into things without thinking.

A concern for him this year was that he might not have eight fresh, strong riders available for the Vuelta after racing the Tour. The Spanish race also has a Team Time Trial, which could be a problem. So if he has agreed to do the Giro, is he heading for a team that doesn't have a strong grand tour leader, allowing him to plan on being leader for both races with a strong squad for each?

Would Vino have agreed to settle for the Vuelta next year?

If the deal with the Giro doesn't exist, why not make a quick announcement saying so? Contador had a brief presser after the cobble training.

On the subject of Vino for this year - some people have the tendency to take whoever won the last race, or even did well, and project them into being able to keep that form all season long. Greipel, Sagan, Machado, Horner, Cancellara, deleted, Vino. After Armstrong put in a decent show at Flanders, people expected him to go out and win Circuit de Sarthe. Vino is at a high percentage of his fitness right now for the Giro. There's a chance that he peaked too early, but if he did, Liege Bastogne Liege is a really nice consolation prize. Vino has said that after the Giro, he'll do his best to rest and recover in June so he can help Alberto for the Tour. I believe him. I don't expect him to be at a higher level for the Tour than he is at the Giro. I don't expect him to be putting in seven hour days doing course recon in the mountains. Heck, Alberto has said he doesn't want to show up at the Dauphine Libere in shape to win because that's too early to be in top condition.

So, I don't think Contador has a wind problem, I think he's been a highly visible victim of good work by non-riders of other teams. As Boonen was when Cancellara was told to attack from fifty kilometers out by his Director Sportif when he saw something Spartacus couldn't.

I do wonder if the deal with the Giro is true. I'd love to see it confirmed or denied, but it could raise issues with the team and teammates, and that can't be a distraction to everyone preparing for the Tour de France. I'll stop there.

Edit: For Paris Nice, the recon came earlier than the morning of the stage. This from Valverde, translated by Google:

It has been a very quick and very nervous, with many falls. We were very attentive, always forward. Our director Yvon Ledanois knew the end of the stage for coming to recognize the last few kilometers a few weeks ago. We said that in the absence of 23 kilometers of goal, only to change direction, the wind could have an important role and had to be later.

 

[joy118118]

But since Astana claims no deal exists, and Zomegnan said it specifically happened the previous day in Liege, maybe Alberto is making specific plans to be on a different team next year.

go to Giro on a new team? Hard to imagine that he made the decision without discussing with DS. Or he will go to the new team with Martinelli?

 

[hammt34]

I read somewhere that George Hincapie actually gave the heads up about the split.Hmmm could be the reason Ol Georgie was about to cry when JB and LA put him the screws by driving the peleton on stage 14 ha ha

 

[Bicicleta]

Did Martinelli sign w/AST for 1 or 2 years? Anyone?

 

[cyclopeon]

Just popped in for the first time in a couple of days (I was distracted by boobquake ). So many riders and teams said their big chance against Contador was on the stage with the cobbles. I think that two days riding the Specialized Roubaix prototype like Cancellara's, getting instruction from Peter Van Petegem, and doing recon on the actual Tour sections might have them thinking a bit. And kudos to Director Sportif Lorenzo LaPage for putting the two guys together. It was also good to see Pereiro and Noval out there.

There's a lot of talk about Contador and the wind - I've seen it in a lot of different threads. I think it's actually just a disadvantage in staff recon so far. The two big instances were the Tour de France and Paris-Nice, if I remember correctly. At the Tour, Columbia had someone drive the stage early and report back about the turn and the wind. It was part of a team strategy from the beginning - Armstrong was a tag along, and some riders from other teams were in the right place at the right time. I won't get into whether or not a future RS member sat up in front of Alberto to help with the split, because I didn't see it. But the bottom line is, that move didn't happen because any rider in the peloton thought of it, but rather a DS or someone from Columbia went the extra mile (in a car) to find out when a move could be made.

Paris-Nice the same thing happened - a crosswind and an attack on a specific curve split the field, with Caisse D'Epargne running the show. After the stage, Valverde gave full credit for the attack and the time gained to the staff member who drove the stage earlier in the day and told them when to make the move. He and Luis Leon Sanchez were the beneficiaries of the intel, but it wasn't either of them showing knowledge or experience or whatever. A guy from the team put in the effort, gained some knowledge, and the team followed instructions.

After my earlier post about the Giro, Cycling Weekly contacted Team Astana, who said that Contador had no agreement with the Giro. Before I read that, I was thinking that Alberto was following Martinelli's guidance to go for more in each year of his career. To announce participation in a race more than a year in advance is a big deal. (It definitely is for the Giro, which is apparently taking the competitive threat of the Tour of California seriously. If you haven't heard, the three RAI TV stations have increased coverage from 42 hours to 88 - an average of more than four hours per stage, and some TV channel will carry the race in 150 countries).

But since Astana claims no deal exists, and Zomegnan said it specifically happened the previous day in Liege, maybe Alberto is making specific plans to be on a different team next year. Normally he wouldn't even commit to a race until he's looked at the stages to see if the course suits his strengths. He must have some kind of assurance of that ahead of time, because he doesn't rush into things without thinking.

A concern for him this year was that he might not have eight fresh, strong riders available for the Vuelta after racing the Tour. The Spanish race also has a Team Time Trial, which could be a problem. So if he has agreed to do the Giro, is he heading for a team that doesn't have a strong grand tour leader, allowing him to plan on being leader for both races with a strong squad for each?

Would Vino have agreed to settle for the Vuelta next year?

If the deal with the Giro doesn't exist, why not make a quick announcement saying so? Contador had a brief presser after the cobble training.

On the subject of Vino for this year - some people have the tendency to take whoever won the last race, or even did well, and project them into being able to keep that form all season long. Greipel, Sagan, Machado, Horner, Cancellara, deleted, Vino. After Armstrong put in a decent show at Flanders, people expected him to go out and win Circuit de Sarthe. Vino is at a high percentage of his fitness right now for the Giro. There's a chance that he peaked too early, but if he did, Liege Bastogne Liege is a really nice consolation prize. Vino has said that after the Giro, he'll do his best to rest and recover in June so he can help Alberto for the Tour. I believe him. I don't expect him to be at a higher level for the Tour than he is at the Giro. I don't expect him to be putting in seven hour days doing course recon in the mountains. Heck, Alberto has said he doesn't want to show up at the Dauphine Libere in shape to win because that's too early to be in top condition.

So, I don't think Contador has a wind problem, I think he's been a highly visible victim of good work by non-riders of other teams. As Boonen was when Cancellara was told to attack from fifty kilometers out by his Director Sportif when he saw something Spartacus couldn't.

I do wonder if the deal with the Giro is true. I'd love to see it confirmed or denied, but it could raise issues with the team and teammates, and that can't be a distraction to everyone preparing for the Tour de France. I'll stop there.

Edit: For Paris Nice, the recon came earlier than the morning of the stage. This from Valverde, translated by Google:

WRT the wind, there was also Paris-Nice 2009, when Rabobank drove the race in a crosswind and splintered the field. Astana were all caught out. Just mentioned for completeness, no judgement attached.

WRT the Giro, as I posted on another thread I can't help wondering if this is a trial balloon being sent up by the organizer; we see this sort of thing continuously in pro sports of all types (not to mention in politics and commercial marketing and ...). As such I'm not sure it is useful to get wound up examining all the possibilities and ramifications until the principal (in this case, Contador) or his spokesman has something to say. If enough of the internet starts talking about Contador being at the 2011 Giro and a possible Astana bust-up it just may gather it's own momentum and become a self-fulfilling prophecy where nothing would have existed. That would be great for the Giro organizers, not so good for the composure of Astana or the man himself.

I wonder a bit about the timing of the announcement too, with AC's brother and main advisor off in the mtb thing in N Africa (I think).

Since you come across as a Contador fan, as I am sort-of, I'd just like to suggest that starting in with speculation at this point about team shifts etc may not be conducive to fostering a continued team harmony for the Tour if this thing gets legs. Possibly the best thing one could do would be to ignore or downplay this for now. IMO

 

[metaCYCLE]

Possibly the best thing one could do would be to ignore or downplay this for now. IMO

That would be the wise thing to do, but there's just too much of latin blood involved so i don't think things will develop in this direction...

 

[Iker_Baqueiro]

That would be the wise thing to do, but there's just too much of latin blood involved so i don't think things will develop in this direction...

What do you mean with too much latin blood ?