Contador acquitted

[Señor_Contador]

Why don't you try reading this thread to find out?

Because it's common sense.

 

[scribe]

You guys are beating around the bush here.

Bottom line is that Alberto tested positive for clenbuterol. All the UCI/WADA want to know is how it entered his system. Not how it couldn't have entered.

Actually, all they should care about is that it is in there. Berto too for that matter. None of them will ever figure out how it got in there

 

[**Uru**]

This points to how stupid the rules are. The riders that do not have money in the bank, like Li, end up accepting a ban for the same offense because they cannot affort to litigate this to the Nth degree. People like Contador, Valverde, or Flandis can push their cases through every level and will make the federations, UCI and WADA pay through the nose in order to get any kind of sanction enforced.

In the end, do not be mad at Contador. He did what any of us would do if we are willing to pay for the legal services. Blame the governing bodies that insist on a crazy system where every positive test is run through a circus, out in the open, for all of us in the peanut gallery to comment and complain about. It is not the doping that is wrong with cycling. It is the wrong-headed manner in which the governing bodies choose to deal with it that is tearing the sport down in the public's eye.

 

[montel]

As I said before. With good passport data and frequent testing (which there isn't) you could probably rule out a 1 pint transfusion for certain days. Can you rule out a 1/2 pint transfusion? A 1/3 pint transfusion? Probably not. And that's precisely what riders have moved on to in the recent past. Guess why? To confound the bio passport.

Has anyone calculated the amount of Clen that would need to be in a small transfusion - like 1/3 pint or 200cc - in order to show the amount of Clen Contador was found with.

Total blood volume for athlete = X
Total clen amount found in said athlete = Y

Amount of possible blood transfusion = 200cc
Amount of Clen needed in 200cc of blood to equal Y above

Is it possible that that amount would be pretty high in the blood when it was withdrawn, even a dangerous amount?

 

[The Sheep]

in spain they deal differently with doping cases than other counties.It´s sad, for sure for less known sporters(fuyu Li,colo),getting 2years

http://twitter.com/#!/PMartens83/status/37565608191201280

 

[Señor_Contador]

Do they have a 'Public strategies' branch in Spain? I suggest not to feed this troll.

Dissenting opinion not welcomed I see.

 

[roundabout]

I guess it depends. Does anyone know what evidentiary (sp) standard they using in doping cases? Is it reasonable doubt (criminal) or a mere preponderance of the evidence (more likely than not)? If it is the former, then I think you are right. If it merely has to more likely than not, then I think he can construct a pretty good argument that the bio-passport exonerates him of the blood transfusion (especially given the UCI has felt confident enough to bring two cases based solely on irregularities in a rider's profile).

Pellizotti was cleared because irregularities in the profile weren't considered to be proof of doping. If i were you i certainly wouldn't trust that a system that can not prove doping with passport irregularities can prove that doping didn't take place.

 

[Walkman]

I really hope that WADA muster up some "cojones" and take the case to CAS so they can give AC the two year ban he so rightfully deserves. It would be very, very bad for the sport if this turns into a "Valverade".

"What else do you need? A and B positive: BANG!"

 

[Escarabajo]

Conflict of Interest
Politics
UCI Corruption

This case had nothing to do with the Clen positive. Come on Spain, lead by example.

On related news, Ricco is laying down in bed in a hospital due to a bad blood transfusion. What an irony.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Welcome to being "played". Enjoy how it feels, because this is how it feels.

That is correct! These guys would not have had to go through the trouble of playing but the UCI was not able to catch the gaff after the leaked info.

Can’t fade the fade cause its already faded!

 

[Cobblestones]

Completely understand and agree. I'm just saying it is an ingenuous argument in that the UCI and, frankly WADA, will be in the very difficult position of arguing AGAINST the validity of the efficacy of the bio-passport on appeal--even though they are simultaneously seeking to prove its efficacy in the Pelzotti(sp) case.

I don't see this as too much a problem in reality (although public perception might suffer). It is very simple to argue that there is a sensitivity limit (let's put it for the sake of the argument at 1/4 pint transfusion). If the passport picked up a 1 pint transfusion (just to give it a number) with Franco, that's quite a bit above the limit and it's a robust result.

Now if Franco's passport looks remotely similar to Dertie's passport, that by itself would open a whole different can of worms.

ETA: and what roundabout says

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I really hope that WADA muster up some "cojones" and take the case to CAS so they can give AC the two year ban he so rightfully deserves. It would be very, very bad for the sport if this turns into a "Valverade".

"What else do you need? A and B positive: BANG!"

No.....A and B = BANG BANG....

 

[Cobblestones]

*** edited by mod ***

 

[patricknd]

I really hope that WADA muster up some "cojones" and take the case to CAS so they can give AC the two year ban he so rightfully deserves. It would be very, very bad for the sport if this turns into a "Valverade".

"What else do you need? A and B positive: BANG!"

i expect they'll have this resolved by the time he retires

 

[python]

rfec is furious

http://translate.googleusercontent....le.com&usg=ALkJrhgOWgP6dXNfCsMZaiGUQjUpUMDSSw

 

[Publicus]

Pellizotti was cleared because irregularities in the profile weren't considered to be proof of doping. If i were you i certainly wouldn't trust that a system that can not prove doping with passport irregularities can prove that doping didn't take place.

Sounds like good advice for the UCI. I'm just a forum participant speculating on ways that a cyclist could use the bio-passport profile to eliminate the possibility of transfusion, not advancing the argument that the bio-passport is ironclad.

 

[hfer07]

rfec is furious

http://translate.googleusercontent....le.com&usg=ALkJrhgOWgP6dXNfCsMZaiGUQjUpUMDSSw

but are they cool?

 

[Ryaguas]

*** edited by mod ***

Wow wow wow... what happened Cobllestones? When we start insulting that is a bad sign

But I'm happy for the desicion... I want to see Alberto racing... 1 year ban wouldn't be so bad but I'm rly happy with this desicion...

 

[Hugh Januss]

rfec is furious

http://translate.googleusercontent....le.com&usg=ALkJrhgOWgP6dXNfCsMZaiGUQjUpUMDSSw

How dare anyone question our questionable verdict!

 

[Señor_Contador]

Actually, all they should care about is that it is in there. Berto too for that matter. None of them will ever figure out how it got in there

Yes, but when you're swimming against the current… I've been called a "troll" for insinuating that they can't bust Alberto on a transfusion. There's simply nothing but Da Passport and, aparently, from what AC has said to various Spanish media outlets, it's not telling of anything.

So, in essence, what you have is a bunch of guys talking about inconsequential stuff. Could'ves. Should'ves. Would'ves. Don't point it out to them though...

 

[hrotha]

Yes, but when you're swimming against the current… I've been called a "troll" for insinuating that they can't bust Alberto on a transfusion. There's simply nothing but Da Passport and, aparently, from what AC has said to various Spanish media outlets, it's not telling of anything.

So, in essence, what you have is a bunch of guys talking about inconsequential stuff. Could'ves. Should'ves. Would'ves. Don't point it out to them though...

Okay, I apologize to Cobblestones in advance, but I'm going to give it one last try.

Have you read the RFEC's ruling proposal? It says the UCI and the RFEC considered four theories: food contamination, blood transfusion, clen microdosing and supplements. It also says the three latter theories were found to be highly improbable or impossible, so that only the food contamination theory stood. Allegedly, they examined and tested these hypotheses. The ruling proposal said Contador hadn't proved it was food contamination, but the whole point is he's getting off because the alternative hypotheses were dismissed. This is why we're talking about transfusions here, and the plasticizers test has NOTHING to do with this. Contador's passport wasn't the reason why the blood transfusion theory was ruled out.

 

[python]

Sounds like good advice for the UCI. I'm just a forum participant speculating on ways that a cyclist could use the bio-passport profile to eliminate the possibility of transfusion, not advancing the argument that the bio-passport is ironclad.

i wrote on this forum months ago that his blood passport will be his main defence. so you're quite right. passport is a two-edged paper sword that the uci can not swing to hard - the handle will separate. but it's the only validated official tool to look one way or the other whatever thoe flaws. and there are many.

to address your earlier question, the 32-page rfec proposal of two weeks ago referred to 2 year blood passport record, 2009-10, not just the tour, as what experts reviewed. also, contador said earlier that he had 7-8 blood tests during the tour with several samples timing, perhaps to his greatest luck, coinciding with the same days he was tested for clen. arguably, daily testing is the best contador could have hoped for because poor frequency of testing is the main weakness of any profiling.

if the above is true, the credibility of the passport evaluation increases. but it can still be beaten, i think. by how much ? a 1/4 a 1/2 unit. i dont know.

 

[Barrus]

Okay, I apologize to Cobblestones in advance, but I'm going to give it one last try.

Have you read the RFEC's ruling proposal? It says the UCI and the RFEC considered four theories: food contamination, blood transfusion, clen microdosing and supplements. It also says the three latter theories were found to be highly improbable or impossible, so that only the food contamination theory stood. Allegedly, they examined and tested these hypotheses. The ruling proposal said Contador hadn't proved it was food contamination, but the whole point is he's getting off because the alternative hypotheses were dismissed. This is why we're talking about transfusions here, and the plasticizers test has NOTHING to do with this. Contador's passport wasn't the reason why the blood transfusion theory was ruled out.

Do you know the reason why it was ruled out? I am genuinally interested to see how they came to that conclusion, because there is no real way to disprove a transfusion, if not by the passport?

 

[sniper]

Do you know the reason why it was ruled out? I am genuinally interested to see how they came to that conclusion, because there is no real way to disprove a transfusion, if not by the passport?

In spite of what hrotha says, I think in the final report we won't find much more than a reference to AC's regular bloodpassport supposedly disproving a bloodtransfusion.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Okay, I apologize to Cobblestones in advance, but I'm going to give it one last try.

Have you read the RFEC's ruling proposal? It says the UCI and the RFEC considered four theories: food contamination, blood transfusion, clen microdosing and supplements. It also says the three latter theories were found to be highly improbable or impossible, so that only the food contamination theory stood. Allegedly, they examined and tested these hypotheses. The ruling proposal said Contador hadn't proved it was food contamination, but the whole point is he's getting off because the alternative hypotheses were dismissed. This is why we're talking about transfusions here, and the plasticizers test has NOTHING to do with this. Contador's passport wasn't the reason why the blood transfusion theory was ruled out.

For the slower ones (well me) how was the transfusion theory ruled out then?