Contador and Spanish cycling

[cineteq]

I copied this from twitter, this is what Alberto said:

LANCE IS BEING LYNCHED. WHAT WE KNOW IS BASED ON TEAMMATES' TESTIMONIES, WE STILL DON'T KNOW FOR SURE IF POSITIVE RESULTS CAME FROM HIS DOPING TESTS. WHY DIDN'T THOSE CYCLISTS SPEAK EARLIER IF THEY KNEW SOMETHING? FOR NOW WHAT WE KNOW IS WHAT HAS BEEN SAID. IF THERE WAS SOMETHING, IT'S A SHAME FOR THIS SPORT THAT IS ALWAYS UNDER THE LIGHT FOR THESE REASONS, AND NOT FOR WHAT A WONDERFUL SPORT IT IS. I WANT TO LET PEOPLE KNOW THAT THEY CAN STILL BELIEVE IN CYCLING & KNOW THAT RACES & TOURS CAN BE WON WITHOUT HAVING TO RESORT TO DOPING PRACTICES. AND THEY MUST STILL BELIEVE IN THE TDF.

Edit: It's probably not entirely correct

That's so poor. Why didn't those cyclists speak earlier? Probably because they have families, probably because of omerta or perhaps for the same reason he hasn't said anything?

 

[LaFlorecita]

I've noticed that you've not responded to people pointing out that the claim that there was 'no new evidence' is untrue.

Either you or he, are liars or very stupid or both.

I'm sorry that was my mistake.

I am neither a liar nor very stupid. I don't know if Alberto is a liar or not, but I believe he isn't stupid.

 

[airstream]

I love how you act like you know him so well but fact is that even I can't say these things about him because I don't know him that well.

The entire forum know about Contador as cycling personality more than you. So you can accuse us of anything but
ignorance

 

[LaFlorecita]

That's so poor. Why didn't those cyclists speak earlier? Probably because they have families, probably because of omerta or perhaps for the same reason he hasn't said anything?

Uhm it's obvious why he said that, he wants to show he doesn't stand up for Lance but he also doesn't want to make Lance angry.

 

[LaFlorecita]

The entire forum know about Contador as cycling personality more than you. So you can accuse us of anything but
ignorance

That proper BS

 

[HL2037]

Uhm it's obvious why he said that, he wants to show he doesn't stand up for Lance but he also doesn't want to make Lance angry.

He didn't use to be afraid of making Lance angry. I wonder if it isn't mcQuaid and Riis he is afraid of now.

 

[Sarcastic Wet Trout]

I copied this from twitter, this is what Alberto said:

LANCE IS BEING LYNCHED. WHAT WE KNOW IS BASED ON TEAMMATES' TESTIMONIES, WE STILL DON'T KNOW FOR SURE IF POSITIVE RESULTS CAME FROM HIS DOPING TESTS. WHY DIDN'T THOSE CYCLISTS SPEAK EARLIER IF THEY KNEW SOMETHING? FOR NOW WHAT WE KNOW IS WHAT HAS BEEN SAID. IF THERE WAS SOMETHING, IT'S A SHAME FOR THIS SPORT THAT IS ALWAYS UNDER THE LIGHT FOR THESE REASONS, AND NOT FOR WHAT A WONDERFUL SPORT IT IS. I WANT TO LET PEOPLE KNOW THAT THEY CAN STILL BELIEVE IN CYCLING & KNOW THAT RACES & TOURS CAN BE WON WITHOUT HAVING TO RESORT TO DOPING PRACTICES. AND THEY MUST STILL BELIEVE IN THE TDF.

Edit: It's probably not entirely correct

It's complete gibberish.

Lance is not being lynched: He was investigated by the proper authorities, they generated 1000+ pages of evidence against him, and concluded he should be banned from the sport and stripped of his results. All within the rules.

Lance generated positive tests: He was popped at his very first test at the '99 TdF but manufactured a TUE after the fact to get away with it. His samples from that race later tested positive for epo once a test was developed.

The cyclists didn't speak out earlier because individuals who spoke out against Lance were publicly abused - Betsy Andreau, Greg LeMond, Emma O'Reilly etc.

Fans don't believe in cycling because riders are still getting popped at the Tour for drugs like Clembuterol and manufacturing fantasy excuses.

Fans believe tours can be won by clean riders, but Contador and his ilk need to drop out before it can be proven.

 

[cineteq]

He didn't use to be afraid of making Lance angry. I wonder if it isn't mcQuaid and Riis he is afraid of now.

Johan's the man.

 

[WinterRider]

Finally a reasonable reaction from a Spanish cyclist, from here:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2012/10/25/sports/ap-cyc-lemond-mcquaid.html?ref=sports&_r=1&

"LeMond won support from Pedro Delgado, the 1988 Tour winner, who used his Twitter account to post a headline that said corruption was a bigger problem for cycling than drugs.

"Totally agree with my ex-rival Lemond," Delgado wrote. "

 

[richwagmn]

And you only realized that after what he said about Armstrong?

Certainly not.

But taking Armstrong's side in all of this so repugnant that I have trouble making sense of it.

What would he have to gain by supporting Armstrong?

Contador and apparently just about the entire spanish peloton is on the wrong side of this. I guess cheating, ruining the careers of those who oppose you and acting like a complete **** just doesn't mean anything to the spanish. As long as you don't get caught who gives a sh*t?

 

[hrotha]

The journalists want to make it sound like he was defending Armstrong but that isn't the case

Puh-lease. I've read his comments in Spanish. They haven't been misrepresented.

 

[airstream]

I copied this from twitter, this is what Alberto said:

LANCE IS BEING LYNCHED. WHAT WE KNOW IS BASED ON TEAMMATES' TESTIMONIES, WE STILL DON'T KNOW FOR SURE IF POSITIVE RESULTS CAME FROM HIS DOPING TESTS. WHY DIDN'T THOSE CYCLISTS SPEAK EARLIER IF THEY KNEW SOMETHING? FOR NOW WHAT WE KNOW IS WHAT HAS BEEN SAID. IF THERE WAS SOMETHING, IT'S A SHAME FOR THIS SPORT THAT IS ALWAYS UNDER THE LIGHT FOR THESE REASONS, AND NOT FOR WHAT A WONDERFUL SPORT IT IS. I WANT TO LET PEOPLE KNOW THAT THEY CAN STILL BELIEVE IN CYCLING & KNOW THAT RACES & TOURS CAN BE WON WITHOUT HAVING TO RESORT TO DOPING PRACTICES. AND THEY MUST STILL BELIEVE IN THE TDF.

Edit: It's probably not entirely correct

When Contador gets popped in the TdF, he will say 'you can't show any photo- or video proof, so you can't know anything for sure'. i'm innosente, i tink!

Yeah, that's a BS,in contrast to what color contador's puppies ears have

 

[cineteq]

Finally a reasonable reaction from a Spanish cyclist, from here:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2012/10/25/sports/ap-cyc-lemond-mcquaid.html?ref=sports&_r=1&

"LeMond won support from Pedro Delgado, the 1988 Tour winner, who used his Twitter account to post a headline that said corruption was a bigger problem for cycling than drugs.

"Totally agree with my ex-rival Lemond," Delgado wrote. "

It's convenient and it helps the sport. Does he talk about doping at all?

 

[Angliru]

Certainly not.

But taking Armstrong's side in all of this so repugnant that I have trouble making sense of it.

What would he have to gain by supporting Armstrong?

Contador and apparently just about the entire spanish peloton is on the wrong side of this. I guess cheating, ruining the careers of those who oppose you and acting like a complete **** just doesn't mean anything to the spanish. As long as you don't get caught who gives a sh*t?

I figure there are approximately 200+ Spanish professionals and we have heard from less than 5% of them. Be fair.

 

[No_Balls]

Edit. 10 char.

 

[Love the Scenery]

Florecita, sometimes you have to tell the people you love that they are making the wrong decision and they are going in the wrong direction. This is one of those cases. If you are a true supporter of Contador, you should tell him to come out unambiguously against Valverde, Sanchez, and Indurain. His public image--already problematic--has taken a huge negative hit and what little credibility he once had is almost completely gone.

What you need to understand is that all this examination of the translation of his words is meaningless. It doesn't matter. Rhetorically, he put himself on the side of Valverde and Sanchez, and that is the side of omertà. Contador criticized the riders who spoke against Armstrong, but he didn't criticize Armstrong? What's that? His precise words don't matter. His rhetorical stance is what matters, and that stance is clearly in favor of omertà and against clean cycling.

The one thing that has differentiated Contador from Armstrong is that most people think of Contador as a pretty dumb good guy, "el tonto buenachón." He doesn't hurt people or threaten people like Armstrong did. The problem now is that Valverde has shown himself to be pure evil, and Contador jumps in on Valverde's side. The side of attacking clean riders, attacking riders who confess, attacking riders who tell the truth, and defending fraud and doping. That is a hurtful position, it directly harms clean riders and riders who tell the truth. His "good guy" image is gone overnight. And that's all he had left.

Contador is about to be "salpicado" by the upcoming Ferrari scandal, since he was stupid enough to use the Ferrari doping ring's lawyer, Rocco Taminelli, to defend him against the clenbuterol charge. That was a major error of judgment, and it makes him part of an international money laundering and dope smuggling organization. These last comments were even worse. I don't think Contador's public image--already very bad--will ever recover from it. And unless he comes out unambiguously in favor of the truth in cycling and against the doper criminal organizations, their threats, their bullying and blackmail, money laundering and international drug trade, his public image will never recover.

Ultimately, your defense of Contador is useless. It would be much more productive if you sent Contador letters telling him you are still a fan and you still love him, but his words were wrong and he needs to get on the right side of history.

[Former Contador supporter. I repudiate him entirely until such time as he retracts his words]

 

[Benotti69]

I figure there are approximately 200+ Spanish professionals and we have heard from less than 5% of them. Be fair.

Well if they dont want to be lumped with Valverde, Contador and Sanchez now is the time to speak up!

 

[LaFlorecita]

Omg I retreat to the RR section. I don't have to waste my time trying to discuss things with people who can only see their own opinion.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Florecita, sometimes you have to tell the people you love that they are making the wrong decision and they are going in the wrong direction. This is one of those cases. If you are a true supporter of Contador, you should tell him to come out unambiguously against Valverde, Sanchez, and Indurain. His public image--already problematic--has taken a huge negative hit and what little credibility he once had is almost completely gone.

What you need to understand is that all this examination of the translation of his words is meaningless. It doesn't matter. Rhetorically, he put himself on the side of Valverde and Sanchez, and that is the side of omertà. Contador criticized the riders who spoke against Armstrong, but he didn't criticize Armstrong? What's that? His precise words don't matter. His rhetorical stance is what matters, and that stance is clearly in favor of omertà and against clean cycling.

The one thing that has differentiated Contador from Armstrong is that most people think of Contador as a pretty dumb good guy, "el tonto buenachón." He doesn't hurt people or threaten people like Armstrong did. The problem now is that Valverde has shown himself to be pure evil, and Contador jumps in on Valverde's side. The side of attacking clean riders, attacking riders who confess, attacking riders who tell the truth, and defending fraud and doping. That is a hurtful position, it directly harms clean riders and riders who tell the truth. His "good guy" image is gone overnight. And that's all he had left.

Contador is about to be "salpicado" by the upcoming Ferrari scandal, since he was stupid enough to use the Ferrari doping ring's lawyer, Rocco Taminelli, to defend him against the clenbuterol charge. That was a major error of judgment, and it makes him part of an international money laundering and dope smuggling organization. These last comments were even worse. I don't think Contador's public image--already very bad--will ever recover from it. And unless he comes out unambiguously in favor of the truth in cycling and against the doper criminal organizations, their threats, their bullying and blackmail, money laundering and international drug trade, his public image will never recover.

Ultimately, your defense of Contador is useless. It would be much more productive if you sent Contador letters telling him you are still a fan and you still love him, but his words were wrong and he needs to get on the right side of history.

[Former Contador supporter. I repudiate him entirely until such time as he retracts his words]

I have no idea what you want me to say.

I don't necessarily support Alberto, I feel neutral, but this is being blown way out of proportions. Therefore I stand up for him. It's not fair to put words into someone's mouth.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I'm sorry that was my mistake.

I am neither a liar nor very stupid. I don't know if Alberto is a liar or not, but I believe he isn't stupid.

So why did he claim that there is no new evidence when there is?

Why did you repeat that claim as 'true' knowing it to be either untrue or without having read the USADA report? Only a liar would present facts they know to be untrue and only a stupid person would repeat a claim as true without having checked it out.

 

[Angliru]

Well if they dont want to be lumped with Valverde, Contador and Sanchez now is the time to speak up!

"Lumped" by whom? You and the rest of the clinic hordes? I didn't realize that by not saying anything one can be unfairly grouped with those that express their opinion. While I'm disappointed with the opinions expressed by some of the leading Spanish pro's (and one ex-pro), I'm not ready to crucify the rest of the Spanish riders just by nature of their place of birth. It's just not right nor would it be to do the same with any other group of nationalities in the sport. As a seemingly intelligent individual you have to realize that it isn't right.

 

[LaFlorecita]

So why did he claim that there is no new evidence when there is?

Why did you repeat that claim as 'true' knowing it to be either untrue or without having read the USADA report? Only a liar would present facts they know to be untrue and only a stupid person would repeat a claim as true without having checked it out.

As I said it was a mistake. A MISTAKE. Don't tell me you never make one.

 

[No_Balls]

I'm not really interested in what he or anybody else have to say regarding Lance because the majority of them are going to feign ignorance or be sympathetic towards Armstrong. Their motives are self-serving, I don't think it's fair to characterise them in a negative light. I doubt many of us would do different if we were in Contador's shoes.

Very true as i have been pointed out during the day. Much of the answers seems highly coordinated (although with different choices of words) and none directly speaks out against Lance. It would be intresting knowing how much influence the teams have in their relation towards Lance post-USADA and how this reflects the riders answer to the press. Some things they have said could definitively been avoided though.

Contador is of course protecting his self-serving intrests and nothing else. Right or wrong? He does what the other dopers do, nothing more.

Contador is about to be "salpicado" by the upcoming Ferrari scandal, since he was stupid enough to use the Ferrari doping ring's lawyer, Rocco Taminelli, to defend him against the clenbuterol charge. That was a major error of judgment, and it makes him part of an international money laundering and dope smuggling organization. These last comments were even worse. I don't think Contador's public image--already very bad--will ever recover from it. And unless he comes out unambiguously in favor of the truth in cycling and against the doper criminal organizations, their threats, their bullying and blackmail, money laundering and international drug trade, his public image will never recover.

The investigation was opened during the Clenbuenterol-gate so this is very easy to say in retrospect. And given the amount of names and teams involved in this affair i am confident he wasnt reflecting if what he did was anything wrong. Probably he wasnt even aware what was going on behind the scene and who was pulling the strings. That is typical mafia.

 

[Benotti69]

"Lumped" by whom? You and the rest of the clinic hordes? I didn't realize that by not saying anything one can be unfairly grouped with those that express their opinion. While I'm disappointed with the opinions expressed by some of the leading Spanish pro's (and one ex-pro), I'm not ready to crucify the rest of the Spanish riders just by nature of their place of birth. It's just not right nor would it be to do the same with any other group of nationalities in the sport. As a seemingly intelligent individual you have to realize that it isn't right.

Maybe the Spanish cycling federation has a lot to answer for in this regard?

Maybe McQuaid calling the Spanish a nation of dopers has a lot to answer for? I dont agree with anyhting McQuaid ever said or did in his whole little pathetic life.

I am not crucifying the whole Spanish peloton, but if they dont like what their Patrons are saying they had better speak up. If you dont mind their silence, which can be interpreted as an acceptance of what Valv, Cont and Sanchez have said they will have no one to blame but themselves.

I imagine that there are some who are anti doping and hate what Armstrong did but they better get it out there soon.

 

[Escarabajo]

I'm not sure there any clean riders out there. How can you be sure there are any clean Spanish riders?

That would be very difficult to believe. Almost impossibility. There are clean and non-clean riders everywhere. Sometimes more of the non-clean riders but there have to be clean riders. The problem is that the riders that usually are seen on the TV are the dirty ones most of the times.

I don't think that statistically we can have a zero percent population group.