Contador and Spanish cycling

[Sarcastic Wet Trout]

I am not his "friend". I am just a fan. I don't know what is going through his mind. I trust Alberto to do and say the right thing.

A lot of people feel the same way about Armstrong.

 

[hrotha]

La Vanguardia: 56% think it's fair that Armstrong lost his Tour titles, 41% disagree.
http://www.lavanguardia.com/partici...353342030/sancion-lance-armstrong-dopaje.html

ABC has similar figures: 57% for, 43% against
http://www.abc.es/20121023/deportes/abci-armstrong-hamilton-mcquaid-201210231037.html

Antena 3: 67% for, 33% against
http://www.antena3.com/noticias/deportes/armstrong-enfrenta-veredicto-uci_2012102200023.html

El Mundo Deportivo: 55% for, 45% against
http://www.mundodeportivo.com/20121...quiten-los-7-tour-de-francia_54353341862.html

I must say however that I'm pretty surprised by the results. That's not what I'm experiencing in the media, Twitter, etc. Still, these polls paint a picture of a very significant minority who think Armstrong shouldn't have been stripped of his titles. The mind boggles.

 

[Descender]

La Vanguardia: 56% think it's fair that Armstrong lost his Tour titles, 41% disagree.
http://www.lavanguardia.com/partici...353342030/sancion-lance-armstrong-dopaje.html

ABC has similar figures: 57% for, 43% against
http://www.abc.es/20121023/deportes/abci-armstrong-hamilton-mcquaid-201210231037.html

Antena 3: 67% for, 33% against
http://www.antena3.com/noticias/deportes/armstrong-enfrenta-veredicto-uci_2012102200023.html

El Mundo Deportivo: 55% for, 45% against
http://www.mundodeportivo.com/20121...quiten-los-7-tour-de-francia_54353341862.html

I must say however that I'm pretty surprised by the results. That's not what I'm experiencing in the media, Twitter, etc. Still, these polls paint a picture of a very significant minority who think Armstrong shouldn't have been stripped of his titles. The mind boggles.

The Huffington Post (hardly a right-wing paper): 53 for, 46 against (EDIT: that is 53% think Armstrong cheated, 46% think he didn't).
http://voces.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/22/lance-armstrong_n_2000133.html

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Contador again comes out to bootlick Armstrong and the doping culture. I have been a big fan of Spanish cycling over the years, from Heras to Mayo to Contador, but I am disgusted with them and Spanish sports in general. I've defended and praised Contador here, time and time again. No longer.

They've all shown themselves to be complete frauds, fully invested in the culture of doping and omerta.

you clearly lack any understanding of spanish/latin culture and no that has nothing to do with doping but with respect to your peers. to us lance was a f;n cheat and fraud but to 90% he was a hero. this doesn;t change that in countries where the old heroes are seen as gods. if you ever won a tourstage you never have to pay in a restaurant if you live in spain or italy. where I'm from you are lucky to not get a parking ticket

 

[Altitude]

The frustrating thing here is that we have the biggest name in the sport standing up for the biggest fraud in sports history, rather than standing up for clean cycling.

Contador is a product of Saiz, Bruyneel, and Pepe Marti. All 3 dope cheats, all 3 frauds. This is not to say that Contador is not a spectacular talent. He is. But, at the very least, if Alberto does not want to admit past transgressions, he can stand up right now for a clean future for cycling.

But if he "stood up for clean cycling" he'd be a liar, just like Wiggins. At least Contador has some balls and has decided to speak his mind.

If you liked him as a rider his latest statements shouldn't change anything for you. Unless you actually believed he was clean before yesterday.

 

[Love the Scenery]

OK Descender, you cite a poll that puts judgment pro Armstrong at 50%, judgment against Armstrong at 50%. Quick, which judgment characterizes "Spanish culture"?



Spanish "culture" is NOT tolerating the politicians, federations, and lying athletes. Spanish "culture" is on the streets calling for the whole system to come down. The Spanish politicians are scared sh**less of Spanish culture.

 

[jamiephillips]

It's funny how all this goes to show how much influence Armstrong wielded and still wields in the peloton.

For example Wiggins saying that the older you get the less you believe in father christmas...Hang on it was only a couple of months ago Brad was kissing his ***!!

Contador, Wiggins et al you gotta feel sorry for them, right now they are like rabbits caught in the headlights!!

Everyone is saying how bad this is for cycling but for me this is the best off-season ever!! And I've been a cycling fan for nearly thirty years..

 

[jackwolf]

I used to have my doubts about Contador's positive, but, after coming out in defense of Armstrong, there are only two possible conclusions:

1) He has something to hide.
2) He's an idiot.

Most likely the first. Same goes for Valverde, Indurain, and many more. I'll follow the crumbling of Livestrong and Armstrong with interest, but I can't be assed with competitive cycling any more.

 

[No_Balls]

OK Descender, you cite a poll that puts judgment pro Armstrong at 50%, judgment against Armstrong at 50%. Quick, which judgment characterizes "Spanish culture.

To be honest i did not expected more.

You ask random people about cycling and what they think about the Armstrong-affair. You have to ask yourself the following questions:

a) Are they aware of the full story? (As in having read the USADA-report, following closely the witnesses, the bribes and so on). Do they even follow cycling on a regular basis?

b) Whats their opinion about cycling in general? If not aware of the full story there might be a...slight...possibility that they think everyone are on the juice and from that context asking themselves why Armstrong should lost his titles. That is of course if they are falling into category a).

c) The judgement is highly likely clouded when authorities in cycling like Indurain, Valverde, Contador sadly siding up with Lance. It is certain that the not so intrested, who dont have the full picture, will do this, since they probably wont build their own opinion of the story. Thats how some of us works.

To just hold up cold naked facts and present them as some sort of proof for something is not very flattering for the person doing it. If you know what im sayin.

 

[silverrocket]

I've noticed that you've not responded to people pointing out that the claim that there was 'no new evidence' is untrue.

Either you or he, are liars or very stupid or both.

The story I read quoted Contador as saying "no new test". This is quite different from saying there was 'no new evidence'. The new evidence against Armstrong is overwhelming, but it is almost entirely "non-analytical" findings. Contador also said that he didn't know what there was in terms of evidence.

Mrs. Murphy seems to be a little hasty in calling people liars and/or stupid.

 

[blackcat]

cycling is cycling.

it got the peloton it deserved

it got the patriarch it deserved

it got the administrators it deserved

cant divorce the culture that was an organic evolution in the last half a century as pharmaceuticals revolutionised western medicine

to focus on mcquaid, and to focus on armstrong, is to seperate the cause and the roots from the current

dont

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Contador again comes out to bootlick Armstrong and the doping culture. I have been a big fan of Spanish cycling over the years, from Heras to Mayo to Contador, but I am disgusted with them and Spanish sports in general. I've defended and praised Contador here, time and time again. No longer.

They've all shown themselves to be complete frauds, fully invested in the culture of doping and omerta.

Signed here too.
AC, Valv-Piti, Epo-Indurain, SSanchez and all the other pvuckers: Spit on them. Liars, cheaters, doped spaniards. A big fat Puke on them.
I´ll never ever buy, watch or do something related to them. They want omerta to continue forever. Boycott them. Let them know!

 

[hrotha]

The story I read quoted Contador as saying "no new test". This is quite different from saying there was 'no new evidence'. The new evidence against Armstrong is overwhelming, but it is almost entirely "non-analytical" findings. Contador also said that he didn't know what there was in terms of evidence.

Contador said "pruebas", which can mean both "tests" and "evidence". In this context, it clearly means "evidence" (furthermore, it *can't* mean "tests" here).

Cycling media relying on Google Translate strike again.

 

[Bobito]

Question: is it fair that Armstrong has lost its seven Tour de France titles?

Here's what Spaniards have to say about it.

http://www.cope.es/encuestas?encuesta=329

The COPE is the Catholic church's semi-official extreme right wing propaganda organ in Spain. What self-selected respondents say on one of its polls is not representative of what Spaniards have to say about anything.

 

[Bobito]

If you choose to feel offended by obvious truths, I can't do anything about it. I've had plenty of chances to feel offended by your continuous and baseless slanders towards my person.

Your position is barbed, illogical and very odd. You keep trying to justify Spain's appalling track record when it comes to all things doping by saying that while Spanish politicians, Spanish sports federations, the Spanish anti-doping agency, Spanish judges and attorneys, Spanish sportsmen, Spanish media, Spanish internet users (as if it was only right-wingers who listen to COPE's sport programms...) are at fault, somehow, Spanish population in general is no less lenient towards doping than populations from countries like France and Germany are.

That is such an illogical claim to make.

If Spain is what it is now in terms of doping, if it has such terrible politicians, such shady sporting federations, such a laughable anti-doping agency, such dodgy judges, so many questionable doctors involved in so many grand-scale doping networks, if it hosts so many riders who will just not condemn doping as opposed to riders from pretty much any other nation, if it has such ridiculous media, it is because Spain has a culture that tolerates doping more than others.

How can it be otherwise? Politicians, ministers, members of federations, judges, attorneys, members of the anti-doping agency, doctors, riders, journalists... they are all Spaniards, they are part of that culture, they were all born and raised within that culture and interact with it.

Wiggins has now defended Armstrong with language quite similar to Contador's. Why not the same chorus of F U?

What (legal) punishment have doped champions like Ullrich and Riis faced? I don't see much difference between Riis and Indurain except one has admitted it and the other not, and that's a personal thing, not a national one.

There have been a lot fewer legal cases against dopers in countries like England and Germany than there have been in countries like Spain and Italy. If like me you think that doping is widespread in all major professional sports, this suggests simply that some countries (e.g. France) make more of an effort to police it than do others (e.g. England). Failures like Operacion Puetro are better than nothing at all - we all know who was involved in that case - and it led to improvements in the then clearly inadequate Spanish law. I see lots of famous athletes from the US and England thrown out of international competitions for doping - from Marion Jones and Dwain Chambers etc... - and very little action by the sporting or legal authorities in those countries. Certainly the legal efforts in the US against dopers have been only marginally more successful than those in Spain or Italy. The corruption seems endemic in the sporting authorities of all the major countries.

Finally, the COPE is without doubt extreme right wing, and only listened to by sympathizers and those who like to get themselves angry. It's online polls reflect very little, just like the online polls on any similar web site (regardless of politics). But the COPE itself is certainly not representative of general opinion. A large part of the population hates the COPE.

 

[airstream]

You personally need to get over your hatred for Contador and those that seemingly enjoy watching him race. Pingeon-holing individuals by virtue of their opinions simply to justify your mad lust for a particular rider's downfall only reflects badly on you. Your comment that you "hope he burns in hell" is a fine example of how sick and disturbed your perspective is. I can almost imagine you foaming at the mouth at your computer as you post some of this hateful drivel. You're quite rational except when it comes to Contador, that's when something seems to snap in your mind and you just seem to lose it completely.

No, dear Angliru. That's all much cooler. There's a gulf between simple kind adeaquate support and support a rider in anything he does including doping that is completely unacceptable. I never argue with the first type of fans. With this statement Contador doesn't deserve to be part of the peloton. He clearly shows he's not an honest rider. He is just an artificially grown child of omerta, the man on who UCI made a bet and let him do much more than anyone else. I'm sure the Tour 2010 probe wasn't the only case when UCI tried to cover up him. One day we will know all the things.

 

[LaFlorecita]

But if he "stood up for clean cycling" he'd be a liar, just like Wiggins. At least Contador has some balls and has decided to speak his mind.

If you liked him as a rider his latest statements shouldn't change anything for you. Unless you actually believed he was clean before yesterday.

Yes this +1

 

[airstream]

Repent, sinner! Only then you may dream of a drop of compassion.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

you clearly lack any understanding of spanish/latin culture and no that has nothing to do with doping but with respect to your peers. to us lance was a f;n cheat and fraud but to 90% he was a hero. this doesn;t change that in countries where the old heroes are seen as gods. if you ever won a tourstage you never have to pay in a restaurant if you live in spain or italy. where I'm from you are lucky to not get a parking ticket

Not sure what your point is here. Are you saying that it's ok for Contador to say this because in his culture, they worship winners even if they are frauds and dope cheats?

I'm not evaluating Contador using his own culture as a lens, I'm evaluating Contador using the lens created by the laws of his own sport. Through that lens, he's a fraud and he's standing up for the status quo.

 

[el chava]

Maybe someone should ask Iban Mayo about Armstrongs UCI call after the Ventoux trial.

 

[the asian]

If you liked him as a rider his latest statements shouldn't change anything for you. Unless you actually believed he was clean before yesterday.

Agree with this though.

 

[the asian]

Maybe someone should ask Iban Mayo about Armstrongs UCI call after the Ventoux trial.

He's busy driving his truck. Can't be bothered about cycling anymore.

 

[FabulousCandelabra]

Happy to see Marcel Kittell being vocal and telling these guys who don't see a need to reform, to shove it!

 

[jsem94]

Kittel just got himself a TON of respect from me.

 

[losersssss]

Not only the Spanish riders mentioned above, also some of the Belgians.... (Boonen Jurgen van de Broek and DeVolder).

The social desirable answers came from the intelligent riders: Cancellara, Evans and Wiggins... , clean or not clean.

Strange that is differs that much between countries. Could be the same explanation (honour) in Spain and Belgium? (the people there never let down the dopers Museeuw and so on).