Contador and Spanish cycling

[Albatros]

Not only the Spanish riders mentioned above, also some of the Belgians.... (Boonen Jurgen van de Broek and DeVolder).

The social desirable answers came from the intelligent riders: Cancellara, Evans and Wiggins... , clean or not clean.

Strange that is differs that much between countries. Could be the same explanation (honour) in Spain and Belgium? (the people there never let down the dopers Museeuw and so on).

Actions and not words is what is needed. What is the point of condemning something that you are doing yourself? Which of the two postures is more hypocritical? (I am assuming the "intelligent" riders are lying like it tends to be the case with cyclists)

 

[peloton]

Kittel just got himself a TON of respect from me.

Does anyone know what happened with this?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ard-link-kittel-to-german-blood-doping-investigation

It's sickening that a whole country gets labeled as dirty when probably most of the guys commentating on it haven't even read the USADA case.

 

[skidmark]

Does anyone know what happened with this?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ard-link-kittel-to-german-blood-doping-investigation

The links under the story have follow-up stories. I think it pretty much ended with him admitting he got that treatment and trusted the doctor, and he did it before it was banned so there was no investigation.

 

[losersssss]

@Albatros

Indeed, words say nothing about doped or not, but I prefer the "intelligent" answers. Why? Because they seem to respect our anti-dope point of view, ok, only in words. the other riders dont, that's why TS complained.

Sure, they should stop doping, but it starts with recognition of what is right or wrong. Even in words...

 

[Benotti69]

@Albatros

Indeed, words say nothing about doped or not, but I prefer the "intelligent" answers. Why? Because they seem to respect our anti-dope point of view, ok, only in words. the other riders dont, that's why TS complained.

Sure, they should stop doping, but it starts with recognition of what is right or wrong. Even in words...

Do not expect intelligent answers from Albatross. He is an Armstrong bot.

 

[wannab]

Not only the Spanish riders mentioned above, also some of the Belgians.... (Boonen Jurgen van de Broek and DeVolder).

Strange that is differs that much between countries. Could be the same explanation (honour) in Spain and Belgium? (the people there never let down the dopers Museeuw and so on).

Last time I checked Boonen wasn't an Armstrong kiss-@ss/apologetic. He also wasn't very satisfied when riding at USPS so don't finger point all ex-USPS riders by default.

Do you think Armstrong wouldn't have doped without Bruyneel (Belgian)? Belgium/Spain/.. are the roots of pro-cycling, so part of the doping culture originated there. There will be cheaters, regardless of what nationality.

I'm Belgian and I don't honour (Belgian) (ex-)dopers (Museeuw; he fell of his pedestal, Belgians will drag you through the mud when that happens )


Just like a doper can't be pinpointed by country, nor can the blind-eyed fanboy

generalization is bad mmmkay

 

[silverrocket]

Contador said "pruebas", which can mean both "tests" and "evidence". In this context, it clearly means "evidence" (furthermore, it *can't* mean "tests" here).

Cycling media relying on Google Translate strike again.

Thanks for that translation clarification. I hate not being able to judge someone based on their actual words, and instead relying on translations that can so easily be distorted (whether automated or not).

If AC was saying "no new evidence", and then later in the same interview saying he was not even aware of the extent of the evidence, than it does seem clear he doesn't know what he is talking about. Makes his apparent sympathy for Armstrong seem empty and meaningless.

 

[losersssss]

@wannab

I did not mention Boonen for his USPS-contract, but to me, he is not the most intelligent rider: he did not understand the quitting of Rabo and was calling names at USADA, nothing new and so on.

Indeed, how people respond to the news can not only be explained by country.

 

[sniper]

@wannab

I did not mention Boonen for his USPS-contract, but to me, he is not the most intelligent rider: he did not understand the quitting of Rabo and was calling names at USADA, nothing new and so on.

Indeed, how people respond to the news can not only be explained by country.

Spain is a clear-cut case: many in Spain including the King and several functionaries in high positions (e.g. at the Spanish Olympic Committee and the RFEC of course) have a proven record of apologizing doping, i.e. not seeing it as a crime or as cheating. All the indications suggest that doping in Spain has been institutionalized in the nineties up to present (though the tides might slowly be changing in Spain). And accordingly they've harvested a lot of results in sports, which served several social purposes as well (e.g. alleviating/masking the financial crisis).

I agree btw that not understanding Rabo's decision is a sign of poor intelligence. well, either that or a hidden agenda, as I assume to be the case with David Millar.

 

[wannab]

I did not mention Boonen for his USPS-contract, but to me, he is not the most intelligent rider: he did not understand the quitting of Rabo and was calling names at USADA, nothing new and so on.

I think you underestimate his intelligence or misinterpreted something.

He gave an interview to Sporza recently, saying something like

He cares a lot about Rabo quitting cycling because of the Armstrong affair wich is basically rechewed news (I think the clinic can agree with that )
Therefor he doesn't care about that old news, that's Armstrong's deal and he should finally provide clarity on that.

He hates the fact that this generation is getting the fall for the Armstrong era, all the young talents @ Rabo etc., for something that was already known

(also by Rabo because they were active for 17 years, they knew what was going on/weren't a white sheep either -> hypocrisy. this is the underlying interpretation of his words I think, that's why he didn't "understand" why rabo is quitting)

He never mentioned USADA.

I think what he said makes perfect sense

 

[losersssss]

I agree, with most of all, but I think I do interpret him right. Sorry, I never liked him, just a matter of taste and yes, I think he is not intelligent in my opinion.

 

[Albatros]

@Albatros

Indeed, words say nothing about doped or not, but I prefer the "intelligent" answers. Why? Because they seem to respect our anti-dope point of view, ok, only in words. the other riders dont, that's why TS complained.

Sure, they should stop doping, but it starts with recognition of what is right or wrong. Even in words...

You have a point and I think I have a point too. It is just what aspect of it we are looking at. The ideal thing to do if you are a doper is to condemn doping and tell the world that you are also at it. But this never happens. They always tell you, if ever, once everyone else knows or when they are not longer at the helm... When there were no doping controls cyclists were far more honest about it. In a way doping controls have brought a lot of hypocrisy around and have not managed by any means to prevent cyclists from cheating...both, from the ones who say the right and the wrong words.

We humans are that bad, or that good.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Spain is a clear-cut case: many in Spain including the King and several functionaries in high positions (e.g. at the Spanish Olympic Committee and the RFEC of course) have a proven record of apologizing doping, i.e. not seeing it as a crime or as cheating. All the indications suggest that doping in Spain has been institutionalized in the nineties up to present (though the tides might slowly be changing in Spain). And accordingly they've harvested a lot of results in sports, which served several social purposes as well (e.g. alleviating/masking the financial crisis).

I agree btw that not understanding Rabo's decision is a sign of poor intelligence. well, either that or a hidden agenda, as I assume to be the case with David Millar.

When did the Spanish King apologize..links?

 

[wannab]

I agree, with most of all, but I think I do interpret him right. Sorry, I never liked him, just a matter of taste and yes, I think he is not intelligent in my opinion.

I think you interpret him wrong because you don't like him and therefor don't think he's intelligent

No really, his exact words
He hates the fact that this generation is getting the fall for the Armstrong era, all the young talents @ Rabo etc., for something that was already known (and therefor doesn't "understand" why they are quitting)

so he does understand, you misinterpret he "doesn't understand" too literally.

ps: I'm not a TB fanboy in any way but he doesn't deserve discredit for that statement

 

[sniper]

When did the Spanish King apologize..links?

sorry, not finding any links.
from memory, both Zapatero, then prime minister, and King Carlos publicly stated Contador was innocent and should skate free. I'm sure about Zapatero, but not fully sure about King Carlos.

 

[losersssss]

@ wannab Test TB for IQ? maybe you are right about that.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Thanks for that translation clarification. I hate not being able to judge someone based on their actual words, and instead relying on translations that can so easily be distorted (whether automated or not).

If AC was saying "no new evidence", and then later in the same interview saying he was not even aware of the extent of the evidence, than it does seem clear he doesn't know what he is talking about. Makes his apparent sympathy for Armstrong seem empty and meaningless.

For all of your semantics, the claim of either no new tests or evidence, both are untrue. The new 'tests' are the blood profile analysis, the new 'evidence' is the eye witness testimony and the evidence from the blood profile.

Either he hasn't read the USADA report or he is lying about what he knows to be included in the report. If he is commenting on the report without having read it or he doesn't understand the report then he is clearly stupid, if he read the report and understood it but chooses to misrepresent it then he is lying.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Okay okay we get it.

 

[Bobby700c]

I interpret Contador's comments as being directed towards the people in the sport who are now feigning outrage at what has come to light. Everyone's known for so long what went on, yet they enjoyed the increased attention that Armstrong brought to the sport. Now that LA's been charged, they are throwing him under a bus to try to distance themselves.

I'm a fan of Contador, partly because he never says anything truly hypocritical and stupid, unlike some others (Wiggins springs to mind). I don't think that's changed.

 

[spetsa]

I interpret Contador's comments as being directed towards the people in the sport who are now feigning outrage at what has come to light. Everyone's known for so long what went on, yet they enjoyed the increased attention that Armstrong brought to the sport. Now that LA's been charged, they are throwing him under a bus to try to distance themselves.

I'm a fan of Contador, partly because he never says anything truly hypocritical and stupid, unlike some others (Wiggins springs to mind). I don't think that's changed.

???????????

 

[hrotha]

Right, so Alberto "I've always surrounded myself with people who opposed doping" Contador was subtly lashing out at other riders for not being completely honest. Yeah, makes sense.

 

[henryg]

I interpret Contador's comments as being directed towards the people in the sport who are now feigning outrage at what has come to light. Everyone's known for so long what went on, yet they enjoyed the increased attention that Armstrong brought to the sport. Now that LA's been charged, they are throwing him under a bus to try to distance themselves.

I'm a fan of Contador, partly because he never says anything truly hypocritical and stupid, unlike some others (Wiggins springs to mind). I don't think that's changed.

I've always been a fan of Contador's but this just sounds like the old guard of dopers circling the wagons. If anything comes out of the ongoing controversy and investigations about him he's banned for life. I could see why he resents the attention the guys talking are creating.

I wished Contador had come into the sport in a clean peloton. He's got great heart and class on the course and he looks like a once in a generation talent (although one never knows with cycling's recent history). A shame he maybe part of the problem rather then the solution.

 

[spetsa]

I've always been a fan of Contador's but this just sounds like the old guard of dopers circling the wagons. If anything comes out of the ongoing controversy and investigations about him he's banned for life. I could see why he resents the attention the guys talking are creating.

I wished Contador had come into the sport in a clean peloton. He's got great heart and class on the course and he looks like a once in a generation talent (although one never knows with cycling's recent history). A shame he maybe part of the problem rather then the solution.

I agree with you on almost all points. It's a shame that not only we, but the riders themselves, will never know what their true talent was capable of achieving.
As you stated, any other implication of doping will sideline AC for life. That is a pretty big motive from someone that has got to be worried. If he could, in any legit way, distance himself across the globe from Johan, he would be doing it to save his a**. The fact that he isn't worries me. We are only a few weeks into this and look what has transpired around the globe.
I doubt Riis and AC are still involved in cycling by the time the TdF rolls around in July.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I've always been a fan of Contador's but this just sounds like the old guard of dopers circling the wagons. If anything comes out of the ongoing controversy and investigations about him he's banned for life. I could see why he resents the attention the guys talking are creating.

I wished Contador had come into the sport in a clean peloton. He's got great heart and class on the course and he looks like a once in a generation talent (although one never knows with cycling's recent history). A shame he maybe part of the problem rather then the solution.

Agree x5 .

 

[Bobby700c]

???????????

??????

Right, so Alberto "I've always surrounded myself with people who opposed doping" Contador was subtly lashing out at other riders for not being completely honest. Yeah, makes sense.

Not really - I guess I wasn't particularly clear. When I read McQuaids's comments re. Armstrong, I thought they were particularly hypocritical, for obvious reasons, and maybe it's that kind of behaviour that Contador was, at least in part, referring to. McQuaid and the UCI have been covering this up for years, keeping whistleblowers quiet etc., and enjoying the revenue that LA has brought to cycling. Now the USADA report is out, LA 'has no place in cycling'.

Just thought I'd put it out there anyway.