Contador and Valverde

[Angliru]

First CE was seen as a "wheelsucker" now you say he attacks too much. Give the guy a break. He's not a member of the OP cycling club. Big deal.

No, he's a former T-Mobile alumnus. Big deal indeed.

My point was fairly clear. Usually he's conserving his energy for the Tour and he said as much prior to and even during this year's Dauphine. Both he and Contador stated that they were prepping for the big event, the Tour. Let me say that Evans made the race quite exciting to watch with his attacks but he shouldn't be overly surprised that Contador was following his every move with only the two attacks at the end of the queen stage. Contador appeared fairly obviously to be measuring himself against Evans.
It just so happened to be at the benefit of Valverde. Evans' reputation even among the professional peloton was as a wheel sucker. We the idol followers of the sport didn't just conjure up this perception of Evans out of thin air. We simply stated through our own observations what his competitors have known probably long before we did. You're just in an Evans idolizing state of blind denial.

 

[**Uru**]

On the last stage of DL, I did not really see Contador as helping Valv at all. What I saw is Contador playing cat and mouse with CE. It looked like he was trying to get a feel for CE's strength ahead of the Tour. If there was any help at all for Valv it was that Contador did not shoot in front of both Valv and CE and take the win himself. It seemed very clear to me that Contador could have won if he wanted to.

 

[elapid]

Evans can't even rally the support of his teammates let alone riders on other teams. I'm sure his fellow riders see how he whines about his lack of support and how he's being "triple teamed" (2008 Tour) or battling with 2 Spaniards, how no one was riding to win but him. Waaah! This type of behavious does exactly encourage anyone to give you any help.

I guess we can thank this union between Valverde and Contador for turning Evans into an attacking rider. His attacks were quite reminiscent of the the attacks that occurred between Rassmussen and Contador in the 2007 Tour. The difference is that there weren't 15 of them and they were exchanges of attacks between Contador and Rassmussen. Not one rider mounting sprint like attacks over and over and over again. One would have thought that a conservative rider like Evans would have been saving some of that fire and energy for the Tour. Has he conceeded victory in July already? For him to have given such a full on effort at the Dauphine is not like Evans.

Biker JK is correct. Evans cannot win in some people's opinion. To the best of my knowledge, he did not complain about the Contador-Valverde double team and he did not complain about any lack of team support. There goes the waaaah factor. In addition, he showed he has changed his riding style and has become more aggressive. What's wrong with that?

In regards to Contador and Valverde, anyone think that this might be a future pairing at Caisse d'Epargne? Contador has been linked to Caisse d'Epargne and he may well leave Astana when his contract allows if the LA and JB show continues in its current format.

 

[powderpuff]

Evans can't even rally the support of his teammates let alone riders on other teams. I'm sure his fellow riders see how he whines about his lack of support and how he's being "triple teamed" (2008 Tour) or battling with 2 Spaniards, how no one was riding to win but him. Waaah! This type of behavious does exactly encourage anyone to give you any help.

I guess we can thank this union between Valverde and Contador for turning Evans into an attacking rider. His attacks were quite reminiscent of the the attacks that occurred between Rassmussen and Contador in the 2007 Tour. The difference is that there weren't 15 of them and they were exchanges of attacks between Contador and Rassmussen. Not one rider mounting sprint like attacks over and over and over again. One would have thought that a conservative rider like Evans would have been saving some of that fire and energy for the Tour. Has he conceeded victory in July already? For him to have given such a full on effort at the Dauphine is not like Evans.

In the past it has been impossible to rally the support of his team members because they didn't have the ability to keep up in the Alps stage after stage. He had their support in this race and he did everything he could to repay them.

AV and AC didn't turn Cadel into an attacking rider, what a load of BS.

Cadel did conserve energy, if he was stuffed he wouldn't be out doing TdF recon rides now.

But don't have to preach to you do we; No matter what he does you just don't like him.

 

[Angliru]

posted in error.

 

[Angliru]

In the past it has been impossible to rally the support of his team members because they didn't have the ability to keep up in the Alps stage after stage. He had their support in this race and he did everything he could to repay them.

AV and AC didn't turn Cadel into an attacking rider, what a load of BS.

Cadel did conserve energy, if he was stuffed he wouldn't be out doing TdF recon rides now.

But don't have to preach to you do we; No matter what he does you just don't like him.

Try as I might, I find it difficult warming to the guy. His performances this year are ever so slightly and gradually swaying me though.

 

[powderpuff]

Try as I might, I find it difficult warming to the guy. His performances this year are ever so slightly and gradually swaying me though.

Can't wait until 26th July when you will be totally converted...a true believer.

 

[Angliru]

Biker JK is correct. Evans cannot win in some people's opinion. To the best of my knowledge, he did not complain about the Contador-Valverde double team and he did not complain about any lack of team support. There goes the waaaah factor. In addition, he showed he has changed his riding style and has become more aggressive. What's wrong with that?

In regards to Contador and Valverde, anyone think that this might be a future pairing at Caisse d'Epargne? Contador has been linked to Caisse d'Epargne and he may well leave Astana when his contract allows if the LA and JB show continues in its current format.

I wasn't referring to his support in this years Dauphine which was much stronger than at any time in his recent history with Silence-Lotto. As far as the reference to the Contador-Valverde double team this is the exact quote from CN: "The final climb was not selective and there was no more I could do against two Spanish guys racing together". Valverde was protecting his leader's jersey which was to be expected. Contador was simply measuring his efforts versus Evans since Evans will be one of his chief opponents in the Tour. Evans obviously perceived it as being them against him because he was stopped from achieving his objective on 2 occasions: defending the leader's jersey and snatching it back from Valverde. It doesn't enter into his mind that possibly his objectives aren't the same as everyone elses.

I just get the impression that Evans is always expecting help from those that aren't on Lotto's payroll. Riders have individual objectives and motivations in races and one shouldn't expect assistance from one's opponents to reach their own objectives. When he had the leader's jersey it was his responsibility to chase down Valverde when he attacked on Ventoux.He obviously had the fitness to do so based on his efforts in the later stages. He chose at that moment to ride conservatively likely thinking that Valverde had gone too soon and that the winds in the upper reaches of the climb would slow Valverde and they would reel him in. It didn't happen much to his dismay and his response was to state that, in so many words, no one else is racing to win. I guess we could include him in this equation. Granted his thinking Valverde had gone too soon was a valid analysis of the situation at the time, but it seems this is similar to the Alpe D'Huez stage of last years Tour except Evans wasn't in the leader's jersey at the time. His chance for the victory was disappearing up the road and he decided to ride conservatively and hope for the assistance of his opponents in bringing his chance for victory back to him.

To state that he was "expecting more from Contador" is an admission that he made a mistake by not countering Valverde's attack and now wants to deflect the responsibility for another 2nd place on the fact that Contador didn't pursue Valverde on his own. With Valverde quite likely not to get a chance to take part in the Tour and Contador's pre-race and during the race statements that he's there as a warm-up, he would've had no reason to chase down Valverde. Was Contador in the leader's jersey at the time? No. Had he stated any ambitions on attempting to win the Dauphine? None that I can remember reading but I don't hit all the different sites and I can't speak/read Spanish to see what is being said on the Spanish based sites.

 

[Angliru]

Can't wait until 26th July when you will be totally converted...a true believer.

That is truly a scary but highly unlikely prospect but we can all dream I guess.

 

[franciep10]

Was this Contador playing head games with his main rival, I think so Contador kinda said listen I am controlling this race I don't want you to win so you're not going to, plus he helped out valverde because he's not going to challenge him for the win, and contador was helping out a national championship team mate.

 

[ak-zaaf]

The problem people should have with this is not the fact that 2 riders worked together to beat another rider, but the fact that Contador worked with Valverde, whilst he is under investigation for O.P.

Contador's attitude towards doping is clearly questionable.

so evans not countering valverdes winning attack last week clearly shows he also has a questionable doping attitude?


you're not being serious right?

or do you really think contador (or any rider for that matter) is thinking about these things while doing a 8% final climb in a hard stage race?

and if the uci can't find valverde guilty so far, should contador?

no, he'd be insane.
if lance and his minion take astana in a chokehold next month, contador will still have a team. all he had to do was letting sanchez take paris-nice and valverde the dauphine. in exchange he'll get the tour.

 

[SpeedWay]

Its truly awful how they obsess over one guy... As I said...it would be great TV if somebody would BUST this jacka$$ and we could see him whisked away by the french gendarmes during the Tour.

To give them credit though, they've never been caught obsessing over Lance in a "Contador and Valverde" thread like you and your girlfriends.

 

[**Uru**]

if lance and his minion take astana in a chokehold next month, contador will still have a team. all he had to do was letting sanchez take paris-nice and valverde the dauphine. in exchange he'll get the tour.

Now, this is an interesting theory. You think Contador decided to deliberately throw PN to Sanchez and then to give DL to Valverde so that he would have support at the TdF from fellow Spanish riders?

 

[Zoncolan]

if lance and his minion take astana in a chokehold next month, contador will still have a team. all he had to do was letting sanchez take paris-nice and valverde the dauphine. in exchange he'll get the tour.

I believe you nailed it with this one. Everyone was on AC's case, because he failed to win at Paris-Nice, while he might have done it on purpose, in order to secure help at the Tour from some riders. Being it is highly questionable that he'll have support from his teammates.

 

[shizno]

Why does everyone keeps saying Contador will get no support from Astana? It is in their best interest to help AC win so they can try to keep him on their team after his current contract expires.

 

[Sheltowee]

On the last stage of DL, I did not really see Contador as helping Valv at all. What I saw is Contador playing cat and mouse with CE. It looked like he was trying to get a feel for CE's strength ahead of the Tour. If there was any help at all for Valv it was that Contador did not shoot in front of both Valv and CE and take the win himself. It seemed very clear to me that Contador could have won if he wanted to.

I don't think Contador sees Evans as threat at the Tour. It would have been nice to have seen Andy Schleck at this race, though. That's Contador's main opposition come July. Schleck has a team that can duel with Astana. I don't think Andy will beat Contador, but he will make it interesting. I doubt that Evans makes the podium in Paris: Contador, Schleck, Armstrong I'm guessing.

 

[COLIN LAING]

Contador, valverde

There will be monkey business at Le Tour and Contador's Blood supply will be flushed...A set up in the making.

 

[ElChingon]

This whole story means we well have some very good drama at the Tour, drama outside a non-negative result . Its something I've been wishing for for years.

With the recent Bromance of Levi and Lance I could see Contador feeling the way he does, then there's the whole language thing. I'm sure there are jokes he doesn't get or he might feel he's being the **** of at times? Who knows on that, he's definitely not comfortable that's for sure as he's recently (today's CN) stated outright Lance and Levi are his rivals (for those that are still questioning it). Whether they are or not who knows but if he feels that way its over at Astana, unless its just a ploy? I do hope it spells the doom of his time at Astana and moves over to Caisse at the end of the year.

 

[elapid]

I wasn't referring to his support in this years Dauphine which was much stronger than at any time in his recent history with Silence-Lotto. As far as the reference to the Contador-Valverde double team this is the exact quote from CN: "The final climb was not selective and there was no more I could do against two Spanish guys racing together". Valverde was protecting his leader's jersey which was to be expected. Contador was simply measuring his efforts versus Evans since Evans will be one of his chief opponents in the Tour. Evans obviously perceived it as being them against him because he was stopped from achieving his objective on 2 occasions: defending the leader's jersey and snatching it back from Valverde. It doesn't enter into his mind that possibly his objectives aren't the same as everyone elses.

I just get the impression that Evans is always expecting help from those that aren't on Lotto's payroll. Riders have individual objectives and motivations in races and one shouldn't expect assistance from one's opponents to reach their own objectives. When he had the leader's jersey it was his responsibility to chase down Valverde when he attacked on Ventoux.He obviously had the fitness to do so based on his efforts in the later stages. He chose at that moment to ride conservatively likely thinking that Valverde had gone too soon and that the winds in the upper reaches of the climb would slow Valverde and they would reel him in. It didn't happen much to his dismay and his response was to state that, in so many words, no one else is racing to win. I guess we could include him in this equation. Granted his thinking Valverde had gone too soon was a valid analysis of the situation at the time, but it seems this is similar to the Alpe D'Huez stage of last years Tour except Evans wasn't in the leader's jersey at the time. His chance for the victory was disappearing up the road and he decided to ride conservatively and hope for the assistance of his opponents in bringing his chance for victory back to him.

To state that he was "expecting more from Contador" is an admission that he made a mistake by not countering Valverde's attack and now wants to deflect the responsibility for another 2nd place on the fact that Contador didn't pursue Valverde on his own. With Valverde quite likely not to get a chance to take part in the Tour and Contador's pre-race and during the race statements that he's there as a warm-up, he would've had no reason to chase down Valverde. Was Contador in the leader's jersey at the time? No. Had he stated any ambitions on attempting to win the Dauphine? None that I can remember reading but I don't hit all the different sites and I can't speak/read Spanish to see what is being said on the Spanish based sites.

Evans is not the most likable guy and he has said and done some pretty stupid things in the past. I would have to say that, in his CN quote, he wasn't complaining about being double teamed, just stating a fact. In regards to his reliance on other riders to achieve his own objectives, you are correct. But often, including Alpe d'Huez last year, it was also in the other riders' best interests to chase Sastre etc because they were also losing podium or GC positions. I personally have no problems with the Valverde-Contador double team effort because there will be a payback at some stage, whether it be rider-rider or team-team, but also believe Evans was more aggressive and willing to try new tactics. For this, he should be congratulated because he is doing what he thinks he needs to do to win the TdF. Ullrich never changed his diesel engine style of climbing, but at least Evans is giving it a go.

 

[biker jk]

posted in error.

That succinctly sums up all your posts on CE.

 

[yourwelcome]

this is similar to the Alpe D'Huez stage of last years Tour except Evans wasn't in the leader's jersey at the time. His chance for the victory was disappearing up the road and he decided to ride conservatively and hope for the assistance of his opponents in bringing his chance for victory back to him.

Evans looked like he was trying as hard as he could up the Alpe, stopping a hair short of blowing up spectacularly. He had nothing left for the TT. I remember it pretty well.

On a more general note - given that Contador's been 'whining' ever since Armstrong joined Astana, but hasn't actually experienced a single incident on the road to justify his insecurities, all this talk of Evans 'whining' seems overdone.

 

[BroDeal]

Evans looked like he was trying as hard as he could up the Alpe, stopping a hair short of blowing up spectacularly. He had nothing left for the TT. I remember it pretty well.

Evans let the pace up the Alpe vary quite a bit. He likely would have lost less time to Sastre if he would have ridden a steady pace.

 

[yourwelcome]

Evans let the pace up the Alpe vary quite a bit. He likely would have lost less time to Sastre if he would have ridden a steady pace.

Yes, he would have in fact won that stage if he'd ridden a steady pace outstripping Sastre.

For some reason he didn't. Maybe he wasn't able to do more than try the occasional acceleration before going back to a sustainable heart rate. He looked spent.

But that would be too simple an explanation when we can more easily surmise he was lacking in moral fibre instead of oxygen/medical assistance.

 

[elapid]

Evans let the pace up the Alpe vary quite a bit. He likely would have lost less time to Sastre if he would have ridden a steady pace.

Pretty hard to ride a steady pace when you have the Schleck brothers yo-yoing off the front and breaking the rhythm up.

 

[BroDeal]

Pretty hard to ride a steady pace when you have the Schleck brothers yo-yoing off the front and breaking the rhythm up.

He should have ignored the Schlecks and ridden his own pace. You could see how the pace varied by watching Menchov chase the group. Near the top Evans rode a harder, more consistent tempo but by then it was too late. I think Evans' DS might have screwed up by warning Evans about Sastre too late.