Contador & Armstrong will never be caught for EPO or blood boosting and here's why!!

[Digger]

Do you think it is fair to say he would always finished at this level though? It's one thing to say Armstrong was helped to winning the tour by doping, but to claim he would have always been at the back of the pack, just because he was for hist first ever tour, seems disingenuous. Do you really believe that?

1989 - 95th in the Tour
1990 - DNS
1991 - 107th
1993 - 5th Overall

Either he lost ALOT of weight, or it was EPO. With a HCT in the late 50s, he managed to cycle around France with blood like syrup. Good going Bjarne.

 

[Slayer]

Way to burn that straw man that you created dude. Burn it all down bro! You da man. I like how you put words in his mouth and even wrote an entire fictitious sentence that you attributed to RR. Cute, but transparently stupid.

Sorry, did I misundestand something? I thought RaceRadio was making the point in his last couple of posts that this is where Armstrong would always have finished if he did not dope. Are you saying he did not mean this?

 

[Deadlift]

Of course if he had a cadance like Lance - then yes, I would believe in miracles....

Why is it a honking doper like Riis, doped upto the eyeballs on EPO, couldn't achieve the realms of Lances cadence or power output of recent times, going on the fact Lance never doped???...

Guys... guys, ''Surely there nothing besides EPO & Blood Transfusions in the world of cycling that could see such an improvement. SURELY, SURELY NOT??? . According to these boards & some of its tenants, there isn't. Absurd.

 

[Slayer]

1989 - 95th in the Tour
1990 - DNS
1991 - 107th
1993 - 5th Overall

Either he lost ALOT of weight, or it was EPO. With a HCT in the late 50s, he managed to cycle around France with blood like syrup. Good going Bjarne.

Armstrong was 5th overall in 1993? I didn't know that.

 

[Deadlift]

Now go read some books or something. I am continually amazed that people come on here (or any forum for that matter) and spout off about topics they clearly don't know jack about. It's a pretty sad aspect of the human condition - hopefully dumb asses like this poster are in the minority or we're well on the road to "Idiocracy."

Well, don't come on these boards like substance abuse has to be, the be all, end all, to Lances victories. Open your eyes, they ain't.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Why is it a honking doper like Riis, doped upto the eyeballs on EPO, couldn't achieve the realms of Lances cadence or power output of recent times, going on the fact Lance never doped???...

Guys... guys, ''Surely there nothing besides EPO & Blood Transfusions in the world of cycling that could see such an improvement. SURELY, SURELY NOT??? . According to these boards & some of its tenants, there isn't. Absurd.

Here is an appropriate link.http://tinypic.ws/images/20188973179693844473.jpg

 

[BigBoat]

1989 - 95th in the Tour
1990 - DNS
1991 - 107th
1993 - 5th Overall

Either he lost ALOT of weight, or it was EPO. With a HCT in the late 50s, he managed to cycle around France with blood like syrup. Good going Bjarne.

Indeed Riis was one of the most incredible transformations. He went from a stickly 165 pounds at 6 feet 0 to a Grim Reaper'esk 155. And an FTP of about 475 watts... He probably didnt have better than 380 before being jacked! Granted 380 is pretty darn incredible in itself.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Why is it a honking doper like Riis, doped upto the eyeballs on EPO, couldn't achieve the realms of Lances cadence or power output of recent times, going on the fact Lance never doped???...

Guys... guys, ''Surely there nothing besides EPO & Blood Transfusions in the world of cycling that could see such an improvement. SURELY, SURELY NOT??? . According to these boards & some of its tenants, there isn't. Absurd.

....Am, because Riis was retired by then?

You are about 10 years late to the party - but they didnt have a test for EPO back in 1999 and guess what happened when the went back and tested his samples from that Tour?

PS As its 99, I think Virenque is going to win next years Tour.

 

[Deadlift]

Since everyone at the top of a pro sport is on a very close level, the additional benefits gained from a PED such as EPO can be game-breaking."

No they can't. I've just proved it to you concerning the flailing success's of Millars, Riis's, results while getting all the "additional benefits gained from a PED such as taking EPO".

 

[Dr. Maserati]

No they can't. I've just proved it to you concerning the flailing success's of Millars, Riis's, results while getting all the "additional benefits gained from a PED such as taking EPO".

Is this the "theory" that whoever takes EPO wins the Tour??

I hate to break it to you - but there was more than one vial a year made.

 

[Race Radio]

I would say he was still young & still finding his legs...

Young? He was 27 years old. Merckx, Fignon, Hinault, Lemond had won by then.

Before EPO riders showed their "Legs" early in their career. With EPO performance became about who responded best to dope not who was born with the biggest engine. This is why you had riders who "Suddenly" became GT contenders late in life.

 

[Deadlift]

You are about 10 years late to the party - but they didnt have a test for EPO back in 1999 and guess what happened when they went back and tested his samples from that Tour.

Riis had been taking EPO from 93. From 93' EPO wasn't winning him cycling competetions.

 

[Slayer]

Armstrong won stage 8 of the 1993 tour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Tour_de_France

 

[Kennf1]

No they can't. I've just proved it to you concerning the flailing success's of Millars, Riis's, results while getting all the "additional benefits gained from a PED such as taking EPO".

Are you assuming that everyone Riis and Millar were competing against was clean?

 

[Deadlift]

Would it be correct if Lance was using EPO from 99', EPO would be the main factor in winning him future cycling events. NO. Why not. I've just proved it to you concerning the flailing success's of Millars, Riis's, results while getting all the "additional benefits gained from a PED such as taking EPO".

 

[Hugh Januss]

This just in.......

Armstrong won stage 8 of the 1993 tour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Tour_de_France

Really? Wow I did not know that. So...?

 

[Race Radio]

Armstrong won stage 8 of the 1993 tour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Tour_de_France

Armstrong dropped out of the 1993 Tour.

 

[Kennf1]

Riis had been taking EPO from 93. From 93' EPO wasn't winning him cycling competetions.

You mean with the exception of the Tour de France, another podium finish at the Tour, Amstel Gold, two Danish road championships, and a Danish time trial championship?

 

[Deadlift]

Are you assuming that everyone Riis and Millar were competing against was clean?

Here we go. Every rider who Riis, Millar, Mr Dope lost out to, over all the years were all dopers themselves.

Go take a walk.

 

[Kennf1]

Here we go. Every rider who Riis, Millar, Mr Dope lost out to, over all the years were all dopers themselves.

Go take a walk.

I have proven to you that you are not Michael Jackson.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Riis had been taking EPO from 93. From 93' EPO wasn't winning him cycling competetions.

So he went from 107th in 91 to 5th in 1993 - I can see why you say EPO had absolutley no effect - did they have rice cakes back then?

 

[Slayer]

This just in.......


Really? Wow I did not know that. So...?

To win a stage up against all those guys on EPO was real class. It is supporting evidence to Deadlift's position.

 

[Slayer]

I think it's true that there would have been a much bigger advantage from taking EPO in the early 1990s than today. There was no 50% limit at that point and only the elite would have access to it. It would have left clean guys like Armstrong and LeMond a long way behind. As we get later into the decade I think that is not so much the case, and certainly not in the Noughties when the EPO test was introduced, and especially in the last few years where the biopassport has kept an eye on hemoacrit levels.

So if we were to look at the advantage on a chart, I think there are two triangle shaped lines from the early 1990s to the present day. In fact it's doubtful if most of the top guys use EPO anymore - the allegation today is they take low level blood transfusions and some HGH to aid recovery. It's an increasingly marginal benefit.

 

[Hugh Januss]

To win a stage up against all those guys on EPO was real class. It is supporting evidence to Deadlift's position.

It has been discussed at length in other threads how Armstrong was "magically" transformed from very good 1 day rider (the type who could win a tour stage or sneek away in the rain at worlds) into a 7 in a row TDF winner. Try looking around in here before jumping in, but welcome to the forum anyway.

 

[Kennf1]

To win a stage up against all those guys on EPO was real class. It is supporting evidence to Deadlift's position.

I think most people would agree that to win a Tour de France, let alone a stage, against all those guys on epo was real class. But how does that support the argument Armstrong was clean?