Contador & Armstrong will never be caught for EPO or blood boosting and here's why!!

[Dr. Maserati]

To win a stage up against all those guys on EPO was real class. It is supporting evidence to Deadlift's position.

Lance won A STAGE! - where was he positioned when he abandoned in the Alps?

EPO was not rampant throughout the peloton in 1993 - Andy Hampsten finished 8th in 1993 clean.

Since you are on wikipedia have a look at how Lemond, Hinault, Fignon, Merckx did in their first or second Tours.

 

[Mellow Velo]

So, EPO is of no use?
1994 Fleche Wallone
1 Moreno Argentin (Gewiss - Ballan) ITA 4h56'00"
2 Giorgio Furlan (Gewiss - Ballan) ITA mt
3 Eugeni Berzin (Gewiss - Ballan) RUS 22"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gewiss-Ballan
Systematic doping

The team is well known due to systematic doping that occurred with the team. The team doctor, Michele Ferrari was an assistant of Professor Francesco Conconi at the Biomedical Institute at the University of Ferrara in Italy. Conconi together with his assistants is said to have introduced Erythropoietin or EPO to the sport of cycling.[4]

On January 11, 1999 Danmarks Radio aired The Price of Silence in Denmark, the first of a two part series that detailed doping in cycling of the Team ONCE and Gewiss teams. The programme alleged that EPO was used by the Gewiss-Ballan team in 1995. The journalists had come into possession of papers of hematocrit levels of riders of the team which showed large fluctuations from normal levels to those indicating doping. These figures would later be published in L’Equipe (discussed below). In addition the documentary told of how during the Tour of Denmark on August 4, 1995, journalists made a doping find in a hotel room where the soigneur of Gewiss Paolo Ganzerli had slept the night before. Six riders of the team had also stayed in the hotel on that night of August 3, 1995. The journalists found a Gewiss bag filled with 12 used and bloodied needles, an ampule which according to its label contained Recomon 5000 (EPO) and three blank ampules of which subsequent tests revealed contained EPO.[5]

Further revelations about systematic doping on the team were published in the Italian newspaper La Repubblica and the French sport's paper L'Equipe in 1999. These were based on published writing from journalist Eugenio Capodacqua from the Italian daily newspaper La Repubblica. Capodacqua published blood values (hematocrit levels) from Gewiss riders and results of an investigation into the team and its doctor Michele Ferrari.[6] On March 12, 1999 L’Equipe published a table of hematocrit levels of Gewiss riders that were taken from December 1994 to May 1995. This was before the UCI limit of a hematocrit level of 50% which came into effect in 1997. Bjarne Riis rode for the team at the time and his levels went from 41.1 to 56.3, Gotti from 40.7 to 57 and Berzin from 41.7 to 53. Ugromov had the highest level at 60%. Riis immediately denied the validity of the figures.[6] Riis’s hematocrit level of 41.1% in a test conducted on January 14, 1995 was a normal value for an adult male while six months later on July 10, 1995 several days after Riis wore the maillot jaune for the first time at the Tour de France, his level was 56.3%.


You may not be able to see the benefit, but Lance clearly could.

 

[Deadlift]

You mean with the exception of the Tour de France, another podium finish at the Tour, Amstel Gold, two Danish road championships, and a Danish time trial championship?

He started EPO in 93. Did all them victories come on the use of EPO within 93?. Surely they must have because EPO brings you victory at every turn from the day you start using it.

 

[Slayer]

I think most people would agree that to win a Tour de France, let alone a stage, against all those guys on epo was real class. But how does that support the argument Armstrong was clean?

Well we know he wasn't on EPO. Otherwise, according to many here, he would have won the tour that year.

 

[Kennf1]

I think it's true that there would have been a much bigger advantage from taking EPO in the early 1990s than today. There was no 50% limit at that point and only the elite would have access to it. It would have left clean guys like Armstrong and LeMond a long way behind. As we get later into the decade I think that is not so much the case, and certainly not in the Noughties when the EPO test was introduced, and especially in the last few years where the biopassport has kept an eye on hemoacrit levels.

So if we were to look at the advantage on a chart, I think there are two triangle shaped lines from the early 1990s to the present day. In fact it's doubtful if most of the top guys use EPO anymore - the allegation today is they take low level blood transfusions and some HGH to aid recovery. It's an increasingly marginal benefit.

I think I agree with most everything in your post. However, keep in mind we've had mountain stage winners from the Tour de France (as well as Rebellin) popped for CERA in the last two years.

 

[Deadlift]

So, EPO is of no use?

YES. I have just proved it with the flailing results top riders have achieved while taking EPO.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Well we know he wasn't on EPO. Otherwise, according to many here, he would have won the tour that year.

Welcome back. Another long session of trolling on the cards?

 

[Kennf1]

He started EPO in 93. Did all them victories come on the use of EPO within 93?. Surely they must have because EPO brings you victory at every turn from the day you start using it.

No, those are victories from '93-98.

So your argument is: Riis had huge success after he started taking epo. Therefore, his success had nothing to do with epo.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Well we know he wasn't on EPO. Otherwise, according to many here, he would have won the tour that year.

Rex - How would he have beaten Hampsten?

 

[Slayer]

I think I agree with most everything in your post. However, keep in mind we've had mountain stage winners from the Tour de France (as well as Rebellin) popped for CERA in the last two years.

The test for new EPO products appears to be getting extremely good now as they coordinate with the manufacturers. I think in many cases it is micro dosing as well - which will have a less powerful impact than the transformation riders went through in the early 90s.

 

[Deadlift]

No, those are victories from '93-98.

So your argument is: Riis had huge success after he started taking epo. Therefore, his success had nothing to do with epo.

WAIT WAIT, from '93-98???. No No, he should have started seeing success IN 93, HES ON EPO remember, the holy grail. The stuff that is of use.

 

[Deadlift]

Why isn't he starting to see success in 93, the point he takes EPO???... Oh yeah thats it, it doesn't work... Did it ever work???... Well his flailing results seem to suggest otherwise. Other riders above him taking it???...

Take a walk.

 

[Slayer]

Rex - How would he have beaten Hampsten?

I think they had different priorities that year. Early stage wins is what Armstrong was going for. He probably blew himself out in attacks trying to get into a breakway during the first week. A guy who is going for the overall just wouldn't waste time doing that type of thing.

 

[Kennf1]

WAIT WAIT, from '93-98???. No No, he should have started seeing success from 93, HES ON EPO remember, the holy grail. The stuff that is of use.

Ummm...what?

 

[Kennf1]

Why isn't he starting to see success in 93, the point he takes EPO???... Oh yeah thats it, it doesn't work... Did it ever work???... Well his flailing results seem to suggest otherwise. Other riders above him taking it???...

Take a walk.

He finished 5th in the Tour in '93, after having finished 107th in 1991.

Do you understand that epo is designed to enhace red blood cell production and increase hematocrit level? And that an increase in hematocrit increases your ability to transport oxygen, or are you disputing that too?

Take a leap.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I think they had different priorities that year. Early stage wins is what Armstrong was going for. He probably blew himself out in attacks trying to get into a breakway during the first week. A guy who is going for the overall just wouldn't waste time doing that type of thing.

So - you can't explain how Lance would have beaten a clean Hampsten?

He only tried to breakaway in one stage in '93 - the stage he won in Verdun.
He also knew he was being pulled out of the Tour before the Pyrenees - so he was going full gas on the alps and had a domestique assigned to him.
He finished 20 minutes down.

 

[Deadlift]

Ummm...what?

Hes taking EPO In 93', the point at which success should be brought because hes taking the EPO, the holy grail to Tour victories & to the victories of that of Lance Armstrong. Hes not winning in 93'. Hes on EPO, the wins aren't coming via EPO. He remains on EPO, but the results start flailing. As the results start flailing, hes increasing dosages, But hes failing more & more. The performance is dropping & dropping, but the doping is increasing & increasing.

 

[Deadlift]

Why would the performance drop, the results flail & not stay regular throughout... When on the holy grail???... Hes on it throughout his career.

Its doesn't work, history proves it against clean opposition.

 

[Slayer]

So - you can't explain how Lance would have beaten a clean Hampsten?

I thought I did give an explanation about different priorities. But now you reveal that it was preplanned that Armstrong be pulled out of Tour all along, so he had no chance of beating him to begin with. Perhaps you should have made that clear before you asked me the question.

the was going full gas on the alps and had a domestique assigned to him.
He finished 20 minutes down.

Like I said, he was going for stage wins in the flat stages. Was probably burnt out by that stage. If you're not with the GC or a breakaway you ride with the grupetto. It doesn't necessarily prove anything. The mountains is where the EPO guys would start to show their hands.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Tag team trolling.
Bound to end in utter confusion on their part.
Bye bye.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I thought I did give an explanation about different priorities. But now you reveal that it was preplanned that Armstrong be pulled out of Tour all along, so he had no chance of beating him to begin with. Perhaps you should have made that clear before you asked me the question.



Like I said, he was going for stage wins in the flat stages. Was probably burnt out by that stage. If you're not with the GC or a breakaway you ride with the grupetto. It doesn't necessarily prove anything.

Burnt out you say?

So - you agree he showed no consistency until 1998.
Check and see how Fignon, Hinault, Lemond, Merckx did riding in the grupetto in their early Tours.

 

[Deadlift]

Riis is 30 minutes down on Ullrich in the '97 Tour. Riis is honked upto the eyeballs on EPO...

30 MINUTES DOWN.

Hmmmm, must be good stuff all that blood transfusion, EPO/HGH stuff.

I know what Lance was THINKING. Yeah, I want some of that banned stuff seeing what effect it had on Riis's results when honked to the eyeballs. Maybe it could be a better idea to actually reverse the idea, stay clean & stay ahead of EPO'ers as it could put me 30 minutes down too.

 

[Slayer]

Burnt out you say?

So - you agree he showed no consistency until 1998.
Check and see how Fignon, Hinault, Lemond, Merckx did riding in the grupetto in their early Tours.

Was there a two speed peloton in their early tours?

 

[Monty Dog]

Because everyone else was on the stuff too!

Deadloss - in 8 pages of posts you still have not produced one shred of evidence that supports your delusional claims.

 

[Race Radio]

It appears our resident troll has returned. He will soon try to explain how he lives in England when he actually lives in Pacific Grove. He will then highjack threads by posting even more garbage. When he is called out he will pretend persecution and increase the trolling....until he is banned for the 10th time.