Contador blasts LA

[Ninety5rpm]

Says the guy who opened this thread with twitter crap.

Yeah, "twitter crap" which was quoted in multiple reliable/verifiable sources.

 

[Publicus]

So Lance is supposed to bridge up to a teamate up the road, who's in yellow, dragging GC threats with him? That would be about as smart as AC blowing up his only help. Lance coming to a near stop forces Wiggo and/or Frank Schleck to the front. Wiggo had the responsibiliy to follow AC and Klodi, not Lance. At that point Astana is 1, 2 on the road in GC. What Lance did is what he should have done. Force somebody else to the front. Lance had no responsibilty to follow Frank because Klodi was there with AC. Probably could not follow Frank. It does not matter. There was no mistake there if he was unable to follow Frank.

You and I have very different views of bike racing tactics. I appreciate your take but I don't agree with your conclusions.

Perhaps you don't remember the situation. My expectation is that Lance would be attentive enough to not give Frank Schleck an opening to get up the road and help Andy set a high enough tempo which contributed heavily to Kloden bonking. Lance wasn't attentive, couldn't follow Schleck's move and was isolated back with Wiggins. If he had been attentive, then Frank is back with him and Wiggins, Wiggins sets pace and Andy either drops the speed to allow them to get back on, or is isolated up the road with Contador (a stronger climber) and Kloden. So instead of a 2-1 advantage for Astana, you end up with a 2-2 push (and really an advantage to Saxo Bank since Kloden was just riding wheels).


That was a mistake my friend. A big one. If you can't see that, then we really don't have much to talk about in terms of tactics and impact on the race.

 

[BYOP88]

what was so un classy about chasing down simeoni? the man spoke out about doping in cycling in general, and hurt the sport.

hahahahahaha

 

[Carboncrank]

Yes he needs a team but just not the same one as Lance. Bruyneel betrayed the guy. The Snipers have fled to Radio Shack with Bruyneel. Why are you so concerned? The man is top dog this year he will get a DS with a team with full support so dont worry. How come he never had problems with the team before Lance came in? When Lance had his engine no one slowed him down, why try to slow down AC to benefit Lance. He had his day in the sun its AC's turn

a tactic of making the riders behind you in gc attack first is not a go slow tactic. if he'd have done what he was told there's the possibility Kloden recovers and can help when the attacks come. He thought he was smarter than Johan, he's not.

 

[Publicus]

Klodi was there at a blazing tempo. Klodi does not respond well to brutal changes in pace. Once he's attacked by AC, if it were me, I'd have sat up too. I mean WTF? The purpose for Klodi being there was to help AC if he needed it. Klodi had no responsibility to ride at the front at that point and neither did AC. So what if Kodi was on the limit? He was still there and the Schlecks were not attacking.

Were you watching the same Stage 17 that the rest of us were? Klodi was holding on to Contador's wheel. That's it. Never set pace. Never let Contador sit in his slip stream. Never covered an attack. Would have been nice if would have so that the MJ could save some energy. That's what domestiques do. They sacrifice their bodies and GC standings for the good of the team.

 

[richwagmn]

I'm sure AC was venting some pent up frustration at the press conference (and he reflects the feelings of many) but I'm not sure I'd get into a p*ssing contest with LA in the press.

You know what they say about wrestling with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.

AC's focus should be on getting as far away from Astana as possible and landing on a new team.

I'm leaning towards Caisse d'Epargne now too. Not as if the DS doesn't know a thing or two about winning GTs. (Indurain come to mind?) though Vaughters is gonna make a real push too.

The worst thing for AC would be to be forced to remain on Astana.

 

[Publicus]

I think that the comments attacking Contador on this are overwrought and simplistic, but I also think that, just on its own merits, you have to admit it was a dumb move. It is wrong to say it is being criticized "in hindsight". The overwhelming consensus at the time was that it was a dumb move. Robbie Hunter, in real time, called it: "Possibly the most stupid team move of the TDF." I had the same reaction when I watched the broadcast. The potential benefit was so low compared to the potential risk that it was a dumb move, even if it had succeeded.

That being said the practical effects of the "mistake" turned out to be nada. It had absolutely no effect on Armstrong's place (he had already lost 2 min because he missed FSchleck's move and had to stay w/Wiggins), and it is absurd to say it "cost Kloden a podium spot". (No way you can make that statement when you had 2 more significant stages to go. Had everything "worked out" and Kloden and Armstrong were 2-3, you would have seen a completely different race on Ventoux).

So it was a mistake--but young riders make mistakes.

The overwhelming consensus formed AFTER the move went nowhere. When it happened, I'm going to bet that you, like me, and everyone else, thought he was gone. Just like on Arcalis. Just like on Verbier.

 

[dadoorsron]

The only people that really know what has gone on in Team Astana's bus is the guys on the team. It's interesting to see that Johan buryneel makes a generalized statement on his Twitter about being foolish. I think that speaks volumes about what kind of person Contador is. To my knowledge Lance never made comments like that about Ullrich during his 7 tour run in the media.

Like him or not, Contador has teammates and the head of the team saying he made bad tactical moves out on the course. It takes solo efforts to separate yourself from other GC riders. However, It takes a team to give you a chance to win the race.

Contador just showed his a$$ in the media and now he is being called out. You don't get far talking about any teammate in the media. Even if it is Lance Armstrong you don't air dirty laundry in the media. That just makes future teammates not want to work for you because you might get thrown under the bus......

 

[mr. tibbs]

Man, 95, your posts are very well written, but I think you might be the single most biased member of this forum. I have my own set of biases--one of which is, admittedly, a dislike of Armstrong--but I do at least try to keep an objective outlook on these things.

Truth be told, I don't much like Contador, either, but I feel more and more sympathy for him b/c of the raw deal he got from Armstrong and Brunyeel. Saying that he doesn't like Armstrong was a weird move, but at least he's honest about it. You have to admit that Armstrong has been waging a passive aggressive war for months now--all the while pretending to not understand why the media/fans kept understanding his tweets and statements as the double entendres they are obviously meant to be.

Am not meaning this to be a personal attack, sorry if it ocmes off that way. Again, I'm not a Contador fan, but I so often find myself compelled to come to his defense in discussions like this b/c of Armstrong's blatant and hypocritical misbehavior.

 

[peloton]

Alberto has the right to spout off, but it would be better if he listens to the Danish National Anthem every training session for the next 8 years and makes his point years from now by holding up 10 fingers.

Here's what he had to put up with:
Pre tour: Follow the leader, who's the leader? AC: Thought I was, huh?
Stage 1: Beat all favorites and the story was still about LA
Stage 3: Team pulls for Lance in split, gains 41 seconds, Lance hailed as genius, rips Contador (btw Wiggins misses 3rd because of this, so it was smart by the team)
Stage 7: Made a relatively small point (in retrospect) by attacking, Alberto assailed as backstabber
Week 2 quiet save the constant chatter of who's the leader, twitters...
Verbier 15: Alberto wins big, and Lance shows he's 38 - Alberto accused of abnormal VAM, Watts, VO2Max, and lack of facial hair
Stage 16: First of two stages where Alberto is easily able to mark attacks, Lance is dropped, but his ability to bridge back is hailed as the second coming
Stage 17: Alberto makes a tactical error, and rightly hears about it (still hard on him though), But Lance has no right to Twitter about it, poor form
Stage 18: Alberto Crushes EVERYONE, rare for a Spanish climber, stupendous demonstration - Lance announces Radio Shack (good business, baaad form)
Stage 20: Alberto intelligently sits on Andy Schleck, had lost the break, no chance at the win, looking back on it, Alberto "paced" Lance once up to AS, but it's had to say he was "helping", probably we know not based on what we're hearing.
Paris: Lance acted the roll of turd on the podium, not even looking at AC. Then they play the wrong anthem, while everyone talks about Lance, and whispers about doping.

However you think about Lance (whom I happen to appreciate for what he's accomplished and for the advancement of American cyling) I think it's fair to say that the best bike racer in the world has been treated like garbage for the last month. I hope he wins 8, does the Giro, Tour, Vuelta TRIPLE, and wins a stage on the Alpe while riding a fixie. If we don't treat the sport's champions well, what's the point?

Excellent post!!!

 

[richwagmn]

Contador just showed his a$$ in the media and now he is being called out. You don't get far talking about any teammate in the media. Even if it is Lance Armstrong you don't air dirty laundry in the media. That just makes future teammates not want to work for you because you might get thrown under the bus......

You mean like LA's constant dissing of AC on twitter since his comeback?

AC doesn't like LA personally. Lots of people feel that way.

 

[Psalmon]

The most talented guy won the bike race. There's no doubt. This discussion really started to roll when it was pointed out what you state above. Arcalais, Stage 17.

I think the most interesting/exciting thing in the race was how AC could not be controlled by JB. I think that's why they are going their seperate ways. It all goes back to coachability. I just don't ever remember Lance going against JB. Additionally, while he's a super, super talent, I'm not sure I would provide a sh!tload of motivation to LA, JB and the others he's managed to alienate. He will likely win next year but he sure has made some awfully strong sporting enemies along the way.

Then we are in violent agreement. Good.

Think about this though, related to your last point. Turning it around, I am honestly surprised LA and JB aren't more cordial. Both these guys are savvy businessmen. They have Radio Shack, and Lance himself has said he won't win the TdF by sprinting up the road, he has to stay close and do better at the ITT. But he's 38. So he's got 3 more years to be third. Is he going to win at 42? Alberto will be 31 then (read as VAM = 2,500 or they'll need to buy faster motos to follow the race). Radio Shack is on board, because Lance attracts media like a highway mercury vapor lamp, even if he gets third, or twelfth. I think we all can see AC winning for 5 more years (assuming he plays the Danish National Anthem before every training session for the next 1825 days). So I can't understand why LA and JB would want to alienate him. I'd want to get him in the Shack, so to speak (or we're going to have fun with that sponsor's name for soooo long).

I'd want to plug in the best rider in the world to my new operation. As an American team they are now competing with two: Columbia and Garmin for talent. Who are they going to build the future with? Who know's? Lance is a great businessman, but he's had a thing with the Spanish since at least ONCE. Maybe Phinney is their guy, but that'll be years. If it were me, I'd have treated Alberto like the champion he is, raise his hand on the podium, say "Que Baludo! Que estupendo ciclistador!", and buy him a Rosetta Stone for English.

 

[Carboncrank]

After the stage in which he dropped Klöden, Contador apologised to each of his teammates, according to Bruyneel. So it was an admitted mistake, but an honest one, as the goal of attacking the Schlecks must have seen reasonable. I really don't see what more can be said about it.

As for Contador's remarks about Armstrong, the latter has yet to apologise for his behaviour.

apologizing was good. in the end it didn't hurt him, but a mistake non the less.
what would lance be apologizing for?

 

[mikkemus23]

What was so un classy about chasing down Simeoni? The man spoke out about doping in cycling in general, and hurt the sport. Inhibiting him from being in a stage winning break by having the MJ (!) chase him down was pure class.

How could honest talk about doping in cycling hurt the sport? Quite the opposite. Or do you find Omerta good for cycling? Or do you indeed mean he was hurting Lance?

 

[Anonymous]

Perhaps you don't remember the situation. My expectation is that Lance would be attentive enough to not give Frank Schleck an opening to get up the road and help Andy set a high enough tempo which contributed heavily to Kloden bonking. Lance wasn't attentive, couldn't follow Schleck's move and was isolated back with Wiggins. If he had been attentive, then Frank is back with him and Wiggins, Wiggins sets pace and Andy either drops the speed to allow them to get back on, or is isolated up the road with Contador (a stronger climber) and Kloden. So instead of a 2-1 advantage for Astana, you end up with a 2-2 push (and really an advantage to Saxo Bank since Kloden was just riding wheels).


That was a mistake my friend. A big one. If you can't see that, then we really don't have much to talk about in terms of tactics and impact on the race.

So where did Frank finish in relation to Wiggo? Why would Lance pay more attention to FS whe he know Frank does not TT well. That's what I see. Have you considered that Lance may not have been able to follow FS? He needed to control Wiggo more than he needed to blow up following FS.

We view this differently. But tell me, who can you point to that sees it your way? I have not seen anyone in the pro racing world that has argued your point.

 

[Cobber]

What was so un classy about chasing down Simeoni? The man spoke out about doping in cycling in general, and hurt the sport. Inhibiting him from being in a stage winning break by having the MJ (!) chase him down was pure class.

Why is Armstrong responsible for AC's transportation? AC is the supposed leader - he should be able to manage his own transportation.

What a load of BS....... are you paid as a LA pr machine?!

1. You know why LA chased down Simoeni - it was because he implicated LA in doping, not because he "hurt the sport".

2. It is not Contador's responsibility to manage transport, it is the teams... and according to the report, LA got rid of AC's organised transport. If you think for one second that LA wouldn't have gone off the deep end if AC had done this to him you are living on a different planet!

 

[Azdak6]

The overwhelming consensus formed AFTER the move went nowhere. When it happened, I'm going to bet that you, like me, and everyone else, thought he was gone. Just like on Arcalis. Just like on Verbier.

Not to quibble about trivia, but if you look at my first sentences, I clearly point out that quite a few people called it a dumb move at the instant it occurred. I certainly did--just ask my wife and dog. Under the circumstances (~2km climb left, then a 15 km downhill) it was a dumb move even if it had succeeded.

Had it been an uphill finish--completely different story. I thought the Arcalis move was a perfect one for Contodor to protect his interests without hurting the team.

 

[padyakpinoy]

I think this whole thing has become very strange :S One attack from contador that was discussed with the victim and there is nearly 1000 replies in the thread on here, I´ve never seen the fate of kloden cause such a reaction. I am also a bit confused where thee comments from fellow like bruyneel, armstrong and this wilcockson(I´m still not sure this is his real name, sound like school boy humour to me) make it seem like contador has been disrespecting all his team mates(he did a bit with armstrong, but to be fair he did deserve it), but these comments come after this press confrence with alberto, where he was quite mild and only mentioned armstrong, nothing about team astana... It´s all very odd

Although could be some other things have been going on(although i think we would have heard some twitterings about them), I hope some good journalist fellows ask the rest of the astana team, especially klodi, so maybe we can find more out about what´s been going on here, and how little alberto was to his team.

The thing is, Alberto does not talk too much, and did not say too much during the press conference. So whatever he says is 'precious'. He could have thanked his team instead, so this puts more importance to the mind of the people, than his relationship with his teammates, especially LA.

 

[Anonymous]

Were you watching the same Stage 17 that the rest of us were? Klodi was holding on to Contador's wheel. That's it. Never set pace. Never let Contador sit in his slip stream. Never covered an attack. Would have been nice if would have so that the MJ could save some energy. That's what domestiques do. They sacrifice their bodies and GC standings for the good of the team.

Klodi was there, right? Who needed time? Was it Klodi's responsibility to set tempo? Amazing thinking on what Klodi should have been doing. MJ was saving energy sitting 3rd wheel forcing his rival to pull using up their reserves. I mean, this is not very complicated.

 

[poupou]

I think that the comments attacking Contador on this are overwrought and simplistic, but I also think that, just on its own merits, you have to admit it was a dumb move. It is wrong to say it is being criticized "in hindsight". The overwhelming consensus at the time was that it was a dumb move. Robbie Hunter, in real time, called it: "Possibly the most stupid team move of the TDF." I had the same reaction when I watched the broadcast. The potential benefit was so low compared to the potential risk that it was a dumb move, even if it had succeeded.

Was not the opinion of Fignon and Jalabert... One was named the Professor and the other won a lot of races, probably the 2 are dumb too.

 

[Anonymous]

Was not the opinion of Fignon and Jalabert... One was named the Professor and the other won a lot of races, probably the 2 are dumb too.

Share the link to those comments please.

 

[TRDean]

Klodi was there, right? Who needed time? Was it Klodi's responsibility to set tempo? Amazing thinking on what Klodi should have been doing. MJ was saving energy sitting 3rd wheel forcing his rival to pull using up their reserves. I mean, this is not very complicated.

Dude, you are making a big deal out of nothing. A stupid, and very minor tactical transgression. Not as big as LA letting the elder Schleck get away, but an error non the less. If you are such a great director where is your team? Where are your wins? You have to realize that sometimes things happen...it did not hurt the team...they still won the jersey!!! And the Kloden thing is a mute point anyway, because he was not strong enough later in the race, and all he was doing earlier was hauling LA up the climbs. Lost time, boo hoo.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

How could honest talk about doping in cycling hurt the sport? Quite the opposite. Or do you find Omerta good for cycling? Or do you indeed mean he was hurting Lance?

My opinion is irrelevant here. Right or wrong, omerta is widely accepted within the profession as being good for the sport.

This goes way beyond the riders and affects everyone in the sport. You don't even hear Phil and Paul talk openly and fairly about how widespread doping is in the sport. They all believe in omerta, at least to some degree. Lance merely defended the belief which is widely believed to be true within his profession, and, AFAIK, may very well be true.

Honest talk about doping in cycling, especially in public, is not necessarily good for the sport of cycling. The argument can be made that it's very bad for the sport.

 

[poupou]

The most talented guy won the bike race. There's no doubt. This discussion really started to roll when it was pointed out what you state above. Arcalais, Stage 17.

I think the most interesting/exciting thing in the race was how AC could not be controlled by JB. I think that's why they are going their seperate ways. It all goes back to coachability. I just don't ever remember Lance going against JB. Additionally, while he's a super, super talent, I'm not sure I would provide a sh!tload of motivation to LA, JB and the others he's managed to alienate. He will likely win next year but he sure has made some awfully strong sporting enemies along the way.

First you don't konw if Lance had not going against JB.

The 2 contenders can be feed by that feud next year too, probably Contador has already a big advantage, he has showed to Lance that he is old now, and is an has been. He will have more doubts, so he will make more mistakes, he has already begun by his unrespectfull twitting!

 

[poupou]

Share the link to those comments please.

It was their comment in live on french TV!

They pointed out that Astana car didn't stay behind Contador, saying "What would have happened if Contador have got a puncture? He should have wait his car!" Not a wise tactic of Astana.