Contador blasts LA

[Ninety5rpm]

Getting yourself a new team and announcing it during the tour is a strange way of looking at 'teamwork'.

Apparently you forget that Astana already announced, a week or two earlier -- also during the Tour -- that Lance was off the team?

 

[TRDean]

Not one team in this year's Tour, NOT ONE, devoted every single rider to their one GC rider. Several teams, including Saxo Bank, Astana, Garmin etc., had more than one GC rider.

I don't see anyone complaining about Cadel Evans not being a domestique for Van den Broeck, and I don't see Van den Broeck announcing his lack of respect for Evans upon returning to Belgium.

Yeah, Lance never road tempo for AC. So what? He was a GC rider.

Yeah, Lance would never allow the riders that were specifically hired to ride tempo for him to not do their job on Discovery or Postal teams. That's what leaders do.

Lance did his job, and his job was not to ride tempo for Contador. And for doing his job Contador denounces him. That's not what leaders do. Contador had an incredible once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to learn what it takes to be a leader, and he squandered it.

Yea...squandered it with a VICTORY!!!!

 

[Anonymous]

This is why your arguments fall flat. It's not enough to say that LA et al said a thing. It's not like they don't have an incentive to shade the truth or that they are impartial observers--just as you rightly question the validity/accuracy of the commentary shared by franciep10's friend, you should view statements by these folks with the same skepticism.

Lance Armstrong lost 2:18 seconds that day primarily because of his own inattentiveness. Not Contador's, his own. Did you see JB comment on that? How about Horner? Anything from Bob Roll? Axel Merckyx? No, then I guess it didn't actually happen then, right?

And if Lance was so worried about Kloden, why didn't he pace Kloden in? Hell, he tried to get on Kloden's wheel when it was clear that Kloden was pedaling blocks. If Kloden wasn't upset, then ask yourself why Lance was upset? He certainly never showed any concern for Kloden't podium position before that day or after. So I'd be interested to know why you think Lance was so upset.

Where have you heard or read Kloeden was not upset? I'm not buying that take.

 

[Psalmon]

There are some un-written rules in cycling you might not be aware of. Like attacking in the feed zone or when the MJ stops to p!ss. Stuff like that. Oh, and attacking your own team. That's one too.

Very aware my friend, thank you. However, I'm a little confused if you are saying AC is the bad teammate here or Lance.

As I pointed out, Lance attacked the eventual winner on multiple occasions during the race:

- On Stage 3 he and Johan sent guys to the front to help Columbia
- Following that, Lance went public and said essentially maybe I'm not so washed up and he (AC) should respect me more, experience relating to Stage 3
- After Rest Day, Lance starts the buzz about a BIG announcement - ahead of the dreaded third week when the team needs to be at it's tightest
-During Stage 17 he paused in what looked like an amateur move, and let Frank Schleck take off up the road to join Andy, who would have otherwise been isolated. - Nobody in the media ever called him on it unless I missed something
-After stage 17, Lance Twitters PUBLICALLY about AC's mistake - Factually correct, just bad form on a team
-After the ITT he announces Radio Shack with the Ventoux still to go, stealing the spotlight from AC who just secured the TdF

For AC's part I pointed out, his moves:
-He attacked in Andora
-He also made a boneheaded move on 17

However, Alberto gained only 20 seconds in Andora, Lance took 41 on Stage 3. He also was properly admonished for 17's move and even apologized (Demol's apparent comments, AC's etc.). Further, most of AC's comments during the race centered around his difficulty understanding why he wasn't the team leader and favorite - something he eventually proved unequivocally.

In addition to all the Twitters, media spins, and Lance's inferiority to AC that became obvious eventually, on balance, I just can't see how anyone concludes that AC is the evil attacking backstabbing teammate, or most importantly, that he's been properly treated and acknowledged as clearly the best bike racer in the world right now.

 

[Otto123]

Evans wasn't a domestique for Van den Broeck because he couldn't keep up! And the other teams as you put it, have other riders vying for different events within the tour, ie. sprinters, mt. climbers. I really can't recall one time in the tour where Astana was on the front on a flat stage leading out their sprinter!? Oh wait, that is because they didn't bring a sprinter to the tour...that's right. There is no comparison between the likes of Astana and Garmin or Columbia...completely different teams.

 

[ThisFrenchGuy]

That's not what leaders do. Contador had an incredible once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to learn what it takes to be a leader

To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women?

Isn't that what he did?

 

[B.Rasmussen]

By "citations" I meant reliable and verifiable secondary sources, not something less reliable than the National Enquirer.

Says the guy who opened this thread with twitter crap.

 

[Anonymous]

People keep talking like Klodi was there and would have been a help. How? When? He couldn't stay with the little attack, and then got gapped by LA himself at the finish. How was Klodi going to do anything to help AC? Please...if anything he sat on AC wheel the whole time...who was riding for who?

Klodi was there at a blazing tempo. Klodi does not respond well to brutal changes in pace. Once he's attacked by AC, if it were me, I'd have sat up too. I mean WTF? The purpose for Klodi being there was to help AC if he needed it. Klodi had no responsibility to ride at the front at that point and neither did AC. So what if Kodi was on the limit? He was still there and the Schlecks were not attacking.

 

[Señor_Contador]

I don't understand how the Kloden "incident" could've just exploded the way it did. I mean... AC was the leader, or so JB kept on repeating, and the leader has freedom of movement. If the Schlecks had found out AK was in trouble they would've dropped him immediately and isolated AC. If AC says he spoke to Kloden and he told him it was OK... I don't know, it makes sense. Here's a guy gunning for third and finding out he does not have the legs and does not want to become a drag on the (supposed) # 1.

It's that simple.

 

[TRDean]

I don't understand how the Kloden "incident" could've just exploded the way it did. I mean... AC was the leader, or so JB kept on repeating, and the leader has freedom of movement. If the Schlecks had found out AK was in trouble they would've dropped him immediately and isolated AC. If AC says he spoke to Kloden and he told him it was OK... I don't know, it makes sense. Here's a guy gunning for third and finding out he does not have the legs and does not want to become a drag on the (supposed) # 1.

It's that simple.

That and Kloden is a super domestique...nuff said.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

If that is a personal attack, you are the most thin skinned person on the planet. Do you like everybody? Have you ever not liked a persons personality...what is wrong with stating that? Nothing. His comments are nothing more. running other guys down? Joke!!

Are you kidding me???

"I have never had great admiration for him and I never will."

If anyone says that about anyone, that's a very personal attack - that is, it is an attack on that person (as opposed to commenting on someone's behavior, for example).

Imagine, just for a second, Sarkozy announcing on TV that he has never admired Obama, and never will.

I mean, that sounds like something Rush Limbaugh would say. Of course it's a personal attack.

 

[Wheels Go Round and Round]

Oh noooooo my friend. There's no way in hell the 50,000 Germans on Alpe D'Duez that day (taking turns at spitting at him) were all psychos. Let's be frank, Lance has acquired a lot of animosity from many people of all nationalities.

Ok, now I see where you are coming from

a pure Lance hater

 

[Black-Balled]

I think I wll have a burrito for lunch today. No, kabob. Crap! I don't know yet.

 

[pmcg76]

I would think having 4 GTs at 26 is not bad for somebody who is not a good team leader, outside of Lance & Indurain, the most recent rider with 4 GTs in their palmares is Rominger and he never won the Tour, before that, well have to go back to the 80s.

Why is it so important to be such a great team leader if you can win GTs for fun. If Contador has a team & DS 100% behind him, there will be no problems with internal team conflicts.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

from chasing down Simeoni to leaving AC without transport in Annecy, he conducts himself with pure class - right

What was so un classy about chasing down Simeoni? The man spoke out about doping in cycling in general, and hurt the sport. Inhibiting him from being in a stage winning break by having the MJ (!) chase him down was pure class.

Why is Armstrong responsible for AC's transportation? AC is the supposed leader - he should be able to manage his own transportation.

 

[Anonymous]

Very aware my friend, thank you. However, I'm a little confused if you are saying AC is the bad teammate here or Lance.

As I pointed out, Lance attacked the eventual winner on multiple occasions during the race:

- On Stage 3 he and Johan sent guys to the front to help Columbia
- Following that, Lance went public and said essentially maybe I'm not so washed up and he (AC) should respect me more, experience relating to Stage 3
- After Rest Day, Lance starts the buzz about a BIG announcement - ahead of the dreaded third week when the team needs to be at it's tightest
-During Stage 17 he paused in what looked like an amateur move, and let Frank Schleck take off up the road to join Andy, who would have otherwise been isolated. - Nobody in the media ever called him on it unless I missed something
-After stage 17, Lance Twitters PUBLICALLY about AC's mistake - Factually correct, just bad form on a team
-After the ITT he announces Radio Shack with the Ventoux still to go, stealing the spotlight from AC who just secured the TdF

For AC's part I pointed out, his moves:
-He attacked in Andora
-He also made a boneheaded move on 17

However, Alberto gained only 20 seconds in Andora, Lance took 41 on Stage 3. He also was properly admonished for 17's move and even apologized (Demol's apparent comments, AC's etc.). Further, most of AC's comments during the race centered around his difficulty understanding why he wasn't the team leader and favorite - something he eventually proved unequivocally.

In addition to all the Twitters, media spins, and Lance's inferiority to AC that became obvious eventually, on balance, I just can't see how anyone concludes that AC is the evil attacking backstabbing teammate, or most importantly, that he's been properly treated and acknowledged as clearly the best bike racer in the world right now.

The most talented guy won the bike race. There's no doubt. This discussion really started to roll when it was pointed out what you state above. Arcalais, Stage 17.

I think the most interesting/exciting thing in the race was how AC could not be controlled by JB. I think that's why they are going their seperate ways. It all goes back to coachability. I just don't ever remember Lance going against JB. Additionally, while he's a super, super talent, I'm not sure I would provide a sh!tload of motivation to LA, JB and the others he's managed to alienate. He will likely win next year but he sure has made some awfully strong sporting enemies along the way.

 

[Señor_Contador]

That and Kloden is a super domestique...nuff said.

I mean... during LA's golden era stuff like this would've been only but a footnote on page 136th of the local paper. All of a sudden the Texan "accuses" someone of doing something he used to do all the time and it becomes an issue. Talk about hypocrisy.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

At the tour he talked much less to the press than he could. He let Contador do press conferences prety much alone. You know, it would have been indicative of a man with class if he had said: 'Here's Alberto, he is the leader of our team, you can ask him about his chances of winning the yellow jersey. I'm going to talk about funding cancer research.'

He should have clearly separated their roles. Contador was there to win the Tour, Armstrong was there to make a glorious comeback and by doing so raise awareness for cancer. Those goals got muddy as Armstrong could not set his ego aside. That is not the mark of a good character.

Well, as far as character goes, Armstrong is probably above average, it's just that with the ego that comes with being able to win 7 Tours the spotlight is on and the cracks get much more attention.

There are certainly things he could have done to step up.

 

[BYOP88]

Wiggo had the responsibiliy to follow AC and Klodi, not Lance. At that point Astana is 1, 2 on the road in GC. What Lance did is what he should have done. Force somebody else to the front. Lance had no responsibilty to follow Frank because Klodi was there with AC. Probably could not follow Frank. It does not matter.

So why on the stage to Verbier with Contador up the road and the Schlecks also up the road in the group containing LA,Kloden, Wiggins and a few others why were Kloden and LA at the front, surely it would've been Wiggins and the others job to chase the Schlecks and Contador.

 

[Señor_Contador]

Ok, now I see where you are coming from

a pure Lance hater

 

[Tonester]

Tonester

It's interesting that no one has pointed out that AC wasn't even on the Podium and LA was already spewing out crap about AC's weaknesses, and how he was going to exploit them next year.
And how come LA is allowed to go out and make the break in the wind - and not inform his teammates - why wasn't he called out for the no "I" in team then? Hopefully not because Poppo was leading him out. Seemed like a two manned Livestrong "team" throughout the tour.
He may be the greatest TDF rider of all time, but until you've got Eddy's record of Vuelta's, Giro's, and Classic wins, you aren't the best. So act like a gentleman and gracious loser. I don't remember Jan Ulrich ever sh**ting on LA the way he (LA) did to Contador.

 

[Anonymous]

I mean... during LA's golden era stuff like this would've been only but a footnote on page 136th of the local paper. All of a sudden the Texan "accuses" someone of doing something he used to do all the time and it becomes an issue. Talk about hypocrisy.

Talking with friends during the coverage and all of us had the same take. This was a while before LA ever said a word.

You are entitled to your opinion, as am I. Please take the name calling out of your argument as it dilutes your point.

 

[Carboncrank]

Klodi doesn't talk to the press. So the premise that he is okay with the outcome of that stage because we haven't heard complaints from him is faulty.

And to Publicus who has accused Andreas of not working for AC... I couldn't disagree more. Kloden is a great teammate and a class act. Any team would be fortunate to have him on their roster. I just hope all the drama and clinicals don't force him to retire.

+1...........

 

[Ninety5rpm]

How would you react if someone acted the way Lance did towards Bassons & Simeoni, Lance called Simeoni a liar even though he didnt really know him.

You don't have to know someone to know that facts contradict the meaning of the words coming out of his mouth.

You dont criticise team-mates in public the way Lance has being doing to AC all year. If the comments regarding AC bonking at Paris-Nice had been in response to a question then fine, they werent, Lance publicly criticised a mistake of a team-mate totally unprovoked. Things like this should stay in-house.

AC chose not to kiss the emperor's ring. So, he had it his way.

 

[Azdak6]

Oh jesus christ dude. He thought he had a winning move, he didn't, it happens. Ask Lance. He tried to drop Wiggins on Col de Romme, couldn't and settled in until Wiggins self-destructed. Does that mean Lance wasn't a team player? No. Just that his move didn't work. It's easy to criticize in hindsight.

Same with the Schlecks. They put in moves, some of them worked, most of them didn't. It's called racing, not freaking tempo riding. Not everything can be controlled from the car.

I think that the comments attacking Contador on this are overwrought and simplistic, but I also think that, just on its own merits, you have to admit it was a dumb move. It is wrong to say it is being criticized "in hindsight". The overwhelming consensus at the time was that it was a dumb move. Robbie Hunter, in real time, called it: "Possibly the most stupid team move of the TDF." I had the same reaction when I watched the broadcast. The potential benefit was so low compared to the potential risk that it was a dumb move, even if it had succeeded.

That being said the practical effects of the "mistake" turned out to be nada. It had absolutely no effect on Armstrong's place (he had already lost 2 min because he missed FSchleck's move and had to stay w/Wiggins), and it is absurd to say it "cost Kloden a podium spot". (No way you can make that statement when you had 2 more significant stages to go. Had everything "worked out" and Kloden and Armstrong were 2-3, you would have seen a completely different race on Ventoux).

So it was a mistake--but young riders make mistakes.