Contador blasts LA

[Tonester]

wow- I mean- the ultraconservative pro-american right wing-channel bashing on Armstrong? - wow-I'm just speechless
PS: Can he sue them?

When you speak the truth, you cannot be liable. It would be a frivolous lawsuit at best. and there's the frredom of the press and all that.

 

[frizzlefry]

wow- I mean- the ultraconservative pro-american right wing-channel bashing on Armstrong? - wow-I'm just speechless
PS: Can he sue them?

LOL, its FoxSports not FoxNews. Not a very good analogy.

 

[Carboncrank]

LOL, its FoxSports not FoxNews. Not a very good analogy.

Obama is #8 and you don't think Fox news was in on it?

Fox is Fox. I don't care if it's your local outlet. Rupertville

 

[elapid]

Well wasn't VdV team leader at the start of the Tour, didn't have the legs for whatever reason(I guess not much time on the bike since his injury at the Giro) and seemed to have no problems working for Wiggins when it became clear that Wiggins did. That kind of act improves morale and team spirit and doesn't cost a penny. Also those are the actions I want to see from sporting heroes of which LA has never been and will never be for me. If a certain rider acted like that the last few weeks I'm sure he'd have a few more fans.

Historically, only Lemond-Hinault and Contador-Armstrong has resulted in open hostility, but there have been many times teams have had multiple leaders. Despite this, these team leaders have acted maturely and in the best interest of the team (ie, Vande Velde), the DS has controlled the situation (likely T-Mobile with wanting a German leader despite Vino doing well), and/or the internal hostilities have not been made public.

For me, BYOP88 is 100% correct. Armstrong performed extraordinarily well, but his achievements have been overshadowed by his off-bike antics.

 

[lanceismyhero]

Obama is #8 and you don't think Fox news was in on it?

Fox is Fox. I don't care if it's your local outlet. Rupertville

Even a liberal news outlet would should have put Obama at number one. The economy just sank away once people realized he was going to win the election. And then he implemented a bunch of communistic policies. madness.
Ironically, the dismal economy affected black more than anyone. Hopefully, it teaches them not to vote solely on race.

 

[Carboncrank]

Even a liberal news outlet would should have put Obama at number one. The economy just sank away once people realized he was going to win the election. And then he implemented a bunch of communistic policies. madness.
Ironically, the dismal economy affected black more than anyone. Hopefully, it teaches them not to vote solely on race.

I'm more convinced than ever this person lied about their age when they registered.

I figure this person learned to read sometime after Oct 08 when the market lost 20% of it's value in a week and the Bush treasury pushed the biggest financial sector bail out in the history of America, finally giving his rich friends the last of the US treasury money he hadn't already given them and giving them even more borrowed from the Chinese, which this child will be paying back his entire life.

 

[lanceismyhero]

I'm more convinced than ever this person lied about their age when they registered.

I figure this person learned to read sometime after Oct 08 when the market lost 20% of it's value in a week and the Bush treasury pushed the biggest financial sector bail out in the history of America, finally giving his rich friends the last of the US treasury money he hadn't already given them and giving them even more borrowed from the Chinese, which this child will be paying back his entire life.

I have a degree in economics. The prospect of Obama winning is what triggered the global economy to nosedive. It was like putting Fidel Castro in charge of the global economy. Nobody with any sense left their money in the market knowing Obama was likely to gain power.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Even a liberal news outlet would should have put Obama at number one. The economy just sank away once people realized he was going to win the election. And then he implemented a bunch of communistic policies. madness.
Ironically, the dismal economy affected black more than anyone. Hopefully, it teaches them not to vote solely on race.

Oh, jeezus. I thought this was a bicycle racing forum, not a stupid political statement forum.

 

[Carboncrank]

I have a degree in economics. The prospect of Obama winning is what triggered the global economy to nosedive. It was like putting Fidel Castro in charge of the global economy. Nobody with any sense left their money in the market knowing Obama was likely to gain power.

yea right, and i walked on the moon.

if you have a degree in economics, were doomed, doomed i tell ya!

 

[Hugh Januss]

yea right, and i walked on the moon.

if you have a degree in economics, were doomed, doomed i tell ya!

No its true, he matriculated at Teeterboro Trade Tech.

 

[Carboncrank]

1. Twitter after Contador bonked during Paris Nice.
2. The lack of smarts comment (don't have the exact words) after Stage 3.
3. He would have beaten him in at least 4 (how Lance excluded 2003 when he barely won is beyond me)
4. Not going to the team dinner to celebrate on Saturday? Yeah that's a real teammate.
5. Only allowing champagne celebrations after Stage 3 and the TTT, but not after Verbier or Annency? Yeah, true teammate indeed.

AC looks perfectly fine--his comment was fair enough (respect the accomplishments on the road, don't admire the man personally--I'm sure Lance feels the same way about Hinault and LeMond). Lance overreacted yet again.

1. petty.
2. He said in an interview about the stage "you didn't have to be a genius" to see the wind and the turn. Neither the question or the answer was about Alberto.
3. Sastre, agreed, ill advised and apologies given. Where did Sastre finish?
4. you have somewhat of a point there.
5. Unsoursed hearsay. petty. Lance "allows"?

 

[Publicus]

1. Twitter after Contador bonked during Paris Nice.
2. The lack of smarts comment (don't have the exact words) after Stage 3.
3. He would have beaten him in at least 4 (how Lance excluded 2003 when he barely won is beyond me)
4. Not going to the team dinner to celebrate on Saturday? Yeah that's a real teammate.
5. Only allowing champagne celebrations after Stage 3 and the TTT, but not after Verbier or Annency? Yeah, true teammate indeed.

AC looks perfectly fine--his comment was fair enough (respect the accomplishments on the road, don't admire the man personally--I'm sure Lance feels the same way about Hinault and LeMond). Lance overreacted yet again.

1. petty.
2. He said in an interview about the stage "you didn't have to be a genius" to see the wind and the turn. Neither the question or the answer was about Alberto.
3. Sastre, agreed, ill advised and apologies given. Where did Sastre finish?
4. you have somewhat of a point there.
5. Unsoursed hearsay. petty. Lance "allows"?

1. My opinion it was an unnecessary provocation of a "teammate," but it is clear your mileage varies.

2. If you believe that, Lance Armstrong has two testicles. You weren't around these parts back then, but your fellow Lance supporters were trumpeting how stupid Contador was after that (no mention of the other 6 Astana members or the other GC contenders that were caught on on the move).

3. Not sure what your response is to, but I was pointing out that Lance said that Contador would have probably beat him 3 Tours he won (2002, 2004 and 2005), but forgot the Tour he barely won: 2003. I added 2003 which he barely won by 1'01".

4. Finally a point we agree upon!

5. I'll use some 95rpm logic on you since you find him a kindred spirit on most issues related to Contador, those allegations have been out there for several days now and Lance has yet to rebut them so they must be true. And Lance tends to be on top of refuting those types of things (see story about Lance and Alberto not congratulating one another after TTT; he shot that down on twitter). Moreover, in light of his general pouting after Contador took the jersey, I would said that the allegation has the ring of truth. But we do agree on one point, quite petty on Armstrong if it is true.

 

[Izoard]

Wow, it's the thread that never quits!

 

[thehog]

Wow, it's the thread that never quits!

LISBON, Feb 18, 2009 (AFP) - Spain’s Alberto Contador said Wednesday that he would be “equal” to Astana team-mate Lance Armstrong during the next Tour de France and stressed that they both deserved “the status of leader”.

“I think that we will be equal,” Contador said, shortly before the start of the first stage of the Tour of the Algarve (February 18-22).

“He, for what he’s done in the past, and me, for what I’ve done over the past two years, both deserve the status of leader at Astana.”

“That way, we both start from the same position going into the next Tour.”

 

[Aguirre]

Historically, only Lemond-Hinault and Contador-Armstrong has resulted in open hostility, but there have been many times teams have had multiple leaders. Despite this, these team leaders have acted maturely and in the best interest of the team (ie, Vande Velde), the DS has controlled the situation (likely T-Mobile with wanting a German leader despite Vino doing well), and/or the internal hostilities have not been made public.

For me, BYOP88 is 100% correct. Armstrong performed extraordinarily well, but his achievements have been overshadowed by his off-bike antics.

Well, one of the most difficult moments in the history of cycling was the Vuelta 98, won by Abraham Olano, despite his teammate Chaba Jimenez (RIP). That was of a tension 10 times bigger than this year TdF. Of course the whole thing had a more national scale here in Spain. Chaba won like 4 o 5 stages, but Olano keep the MJ due his TT skills. After that Vuelta, Olano moved to ONCE joining Jalabert and Manolo Sainz.

 

[LugHugger]

Wow, it's the thread that never quits!

We're well ahead of the "New website blows" thread which I thought would never be surpassed!

 

[Aguirre]

He did, defending somebodies lead when they are ahead and marking attacks is helping. He did work for him on the early slopes of the climb. Any way how can he help him if AC goes against team tatics and rides away without any orders. It seems to be all about him.

posts like this makes me think how little of the cycling culture some people have...

 

[El Imbatido]

Well, one of the most difficult moments in the history of cycling was the Vuelta 98, won by Abraham Olano, despite his teammate Chaba Jimenez (RIP). That was of a tension 10 times bigger than this year TdF. Of course the whole thing had a more national scale here in Spain. Chaba won like 4 o 5 stages, but Olano keep the MJ due his TT skills. After that Vuelta, Olano moved to ONCE joining Jalabert and Manolo Sainz.

What about the vuelta 02(?). Where Oscar sevilla who was the leader of the vuelta at the time got attacked by his team mate Itor Gonzalaz on the Angliru. I personally dont remember it but im sure the tension would have been electric that day

 

[gree0232]

For somebody who claims to place so much faith in jurisprudence, you are presenting precious little evidence to support your "Contadors apparently fragile ego" argument. Indeed, the evidence out on the road would appear to contradict your argument.

We'll see about Contadors next team, wherever that may be. If it is Garmin, are you actually contending that VdV and Wiggins could challenge Contador for a higher GC placing? Getting on to the podium for both of those guys would be a massive achievement and rightly be celebrated by the team. The only person who appeared to be disappointed with his podium place this year was Armstrong from what I saw on Sunday.

Nope, VdV and Wiggins could not challenge Contador for the top spot on the podium, and neither could Lance in this Tour.

Somehow the tension was unbearable for our young victim when Armstrong took aim at a lower step and the management said, "Yeah, I think we can occupy more than one spot on the podium!"

So, same question next year at Garmin, VdV says, "I can get to number three!"

And Contador says, "Sorry, team must be behind me and me only!"

You talk about evidence? Ripping into the team after Levi finishes a close second in the Vuelta? Levi? One of the classiest guys in the pro-peloton? Somehow, that situation in the Vuelta was unfair to poor, poor, Contador? And how was that different than having Lance in the Tour this year? Lance is a more powerful personality and definitely more brash, but he was also significantly weaker than Levi was in that Tour.

In short, there was absolutely no reason for Contador to feel threatened and have to make 'independant decisions'. He did so because he did not trust the manager that brought him three previous GT victories????? Seriously????? Those are the actions of a man with supreme self-confidence?

Now we see him looking for a team, demanding at least a two year deal and that the team be build solely around him. That last demand will be a tough one for any team to swallow, as a team by definition has more than just one goal.

The best team for Alberto next year would be Quick Step. They have no GC contenders, but clearly have a strong team, including Devolder who has done well (not great) in Grand Tours and could be augmented by strong riders that Contador would no doubt bring with him. A couple of guys would have to watch out for Tom Boonen in the sprints, but Quick Step, and otherwise strong team, is in desperate need for GT leadership.

And, Quick Step did very well with another former USPS rider, Boonen.

The question is: Can Contador share the spotlight at all? Can he allow a couple of guys to shadow Tom on the flat stages keeping four for himself on those stages and then have the whole team behind him in the mountains? (Sorry Tom, you've been in the Autobus before.)

My guess, having seen the nearly constant sniping about 'Captainship' from AC coupled with his demand that he be the sole leader in any future team is that he cannot. And that is going to make his search for a new team very difficult.

Clearly, he will not stay on a team where Vino has a close relationship with the sponsors and whoever manages the team after JB departs.

So good job AC, you have officially bitten the hand that feeds you! And, Greg LeMond doesn't like you anymore.

 

[psychlist]

In short, there was absolutely no reason for Contador to feel threatened and have to make 'independant decisions'. He did so because he did not trust the manager that brought him three previous GT victories????? Seriously????? Those are the actions of a man with supreme self-confidence?

I am no AC apologist, however, even I think if LA had gotten the yellow jersey first there might have been pressure on Contador to hold back and see if LA could keep it.
I don't think AC should have attacked on Verbier, but I totally understand his actions on Arcalis.

 

[gree0232]

I am no AC apologist, however, even I think if LA had gotten the yellow jersey first there might have been pressure on Contador to hold back and see if LA could keep it.
I don't think AC should have attacked on Verbier, but I totally understand his actions on Arcalis.

After the first mountain stage, Lance came out and said that Alberto was clearly the strongest guy in the Tour.

So, do you really think that comment was a bold faced lie and and attempt to sucker Alberto into losing the Tour through subterfuge?

Being on a team with the likes of Levi, Kloden, and Armstrong, was it at any point realistic for Alberto to think that the team should ride for him and for him alone?

What is clear is that the team that brought Contador to the pinnacle of his success is now for all intents and purposes defunct. The idea that Alberto is just a victim if circumstance? Not buying that at all.

Again, Al is clearly not comfortable unless he is the 'Captain' and everyone else acknowledges it. It was bad with Levi in the Vuelta, and unbearable in the Tour.

How Alberto wants to have a strong team of strong riders who are all devoid of any ego? Good luck Alberto.

Lance was right, AC has a lot to learn.

 

[Hugh Januss]

After the first mountain stage, Lance came out and said that Alberto was clearly the strongest guy in the Tour.
Oh Oh I think I know these
So, do you really think that comment was a bold faced lie and and attempt to sucker Alberto into losing the Tour through subterfuge?
YES
Being on a team with the likes of Levi, Kloden, and Armstrong, was it at any point realistic for Alberto to think that the team should ride for him and for him alone?
YES
What is clear is that the team that brought Contador to the pinnacle of his success is now for all intents and purposes defunct. The idea that Alberto is just a victim if circumstance? Not buying that at all.
Was that a question?
Again, Al is clearly not comfortable unless he is the 'Captain' and everyone else acknowledges it. It was bad with Levi in the Vuelta, and unbearable in the Tour.
You mean like Armstrong was for 7 tours?
How Alberto wants to have a strong team of strong riders who are all devoid of any ego? Good luck Alberto.
You mean like armstrong did for 7 tours.
Lance was right, AC has a lot to learn.

I think he learned some of it this year.

 

[Bronstein]

There is a term I would like to introduce all the Lance Hater's too: Jurisprudence.

It doesn't really matter which side of the pond you are on, you can make all the accusations in the world, but unless you can prove something, the person is innocent.

"Where there is smoke, there must also be fire," try that with a judge in any Westren Country and see how far your case goes.

The simple fact of the matter is that Lance Armstrong has never been sanctioned because no one has ever been able to prove he doped. The one 'positive' was invesitgated and the final call went strongly against WADA. How many other riders have been in that position including a very motivated Floyd Landis? There are none.

Ricco was targetted for six months, bam, tests positive.

Di Luca tested based on blood values, bam, tests positive.

Floyd Landis has a 'super' stage and is targeted, bam, tests positive.

Iban Mayo, Schumacher, Tin Tin, all these riders are targetted over a period of months and test positive.

Lance iwent through seven tours a targetted rider and they could never get him.

Guilt by association? Roberto Heras perhaps? Who rode for the same team as Alberto Contador, the latest victim of Darth Armstrong?

The Andreu's say one thing, Lance's doctor, his treatment notes, and treatment plan say something else. Clearly there is smoke and fire Lance's corner on that one.

And finally, having been to France, which I absolutely love, I will also tell you there are some very strong atristocratic tendancies over there. Those who are in poistions of authority do not like being challenged (i.e. having mere peasent, or a rider, challenge their divine decisions). Do you really think that rumor campaigns and innuendo are anything new in France? That smoke always equals fire in the game of politics .... in FRANCE! You ever wonder why boss napping and labor/management disputes are so fierce in France?

Or does jurisprudence matter at all? Are you guilty simply by being accussed?

At this point, the Lance Haters should probably just start saying that Lance Armstrong actually helped John Wilkes Booth assassinate Lincoln! Why not, smoke equals fire.

And at the end of the day, after winning a Grand Tour, THE Grand Tour, AC's first act is to criticise a team mate, a team mate who rode with plenty of strong riders on his team in his years and never, the day after a Grand Tour, ripped into a team mate.

The differenceis that Lance was supremely confident that he truly was the strongest rider. Alberto, though clearly the strongest rider, is obviously not nearly as confident.

But Lance Armstrong faked the moon landing .... so Alberto is a victim.

There is substantial circumstantial evidence to form a reasonable belief that Armstrong is a doper. Just because he hasn't tested positive doesn't necessarily mean that he is innocent. Such a presumption is illogical, particularly given the history of convicted dopers consistently beating numerous test before they were caught.

Furthermore, since we aren't in a court of law, it is irrelevant to talk about jurisprudence. Armstrong is not on trial. People are free to express their opinions, especially when supported by evidence.

 

[Boeing]

regardless you opinion and mine, it is good for cycling


let the smack continue

 

[gree0232]

There is substantial circumstantial evidence to form a reasonable belief that Armstrong is a doper. Just because he hasn't tested positive doesn't necessarily mean that he is innocent. Such a presumption is illogical, particularly given the history of convicted dopers consistently beating numerous test before they were caught.

Furthermore, since we aren't in a court of law, it is irrelevant to talk about jurisprudence. Armstrong is not on trial. People are free to express their opinions, especially when supported by evidence.

Well, not being a court of law, when you walk into a PUBLIC forum and say, "LANCE IS A DOPER!" The response will be, "OK, prove it."

When all you put out is the opinions of those making the accusations and ignoring the rebuttals, well, lets just say that some opinions are better than others.

I will also say that Lance may very well have doped. However, WADA/LNDD's handling of the samples was so bad that they exonerated Lance, embarssed themselves professionally, and consumed the samples in doing so, i.e. now we can never prove Lance doped in 1999.

Given the conduct of LNDD and the results of an independant investigation, the benefit of the doubt definitely goes to Lance on that one.

In fact, every single one of these accussations, when taken to a body that can officially take sides and make sanctions as a result, including the Andreau vs. Lance's doctor episode, the result has always been with Lance.

Lance may not be a nice person, but defending himself from an accusation, even a series of them, does not make him a bad person. I would do the same thing in his shoes.