Contador Blood Doped

[Arnout]

Maybe he ate a steak before withdrawing the blood?

But at this moment i really doubt that Contador is going to be sanctioned for blood doping.

But then he maybe ate a steak on July 21st.

I mean, it is a possibility, but you can not prove (or even logically deduct) blood transfusions with this.

 

[SlowTex]

Just read the article on Clenbuterol on the DEA site.(that's a US gov. site)

 

[roundabout]

But then he maybe ate a steak on July 21st.

I mean, it is a possibility, but you can not prove (or even logically deduct) blood transfusions with this.

I agree, testing positive for clenbuterol doesn't indicate a blood transfusion by itself. Plasticizers are also likely to be a dead end since i don't believe that the test is ratified. Blood variations? Doubt that Contador or UCI will be interested in publishing those.

 

[gruppetto]

Ok just did a quick google search. There seems to be a bit of research into determining the plastizers in blood transfusions. Look at this:

http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=ul260715xw164734&size=largest

 

[la.margna]

could they please test alle Pharmstrong samples in any fridge on this world with regard to blood bag softener values?

 

[Publicus]

It was probably leaked by WADA. I don't think the lab knew it was from contador (Or maybe they did. I don't know anymore).

My bet the UCI were trying to sweep this under the carpet and somebody forseeing this came forward. Just my guess.

Wouldn't the UCI have to notify WADA when the first sample came back positive? Also, does WADA have the control numbers for samples to link it back to Contador? This case is getting more interesting by the hour.

 

[gruppetto]

Ok theres loads of research done. Contadors ****ed.

Urinary di-(2-ethylhexyl)phthalate metabolites in athletes as screening measure for illicit blood doping: a comparison study with patients receiving blood transfusion.
Monfort N, Ventura R, Latorre A, Belalcazar V, López M, Segura J.

Bioanalysis Research Group, IMIM-Hospital del Mar, Barcelona, Spain.
Abstract
BACKGROUND: Subjects submitted to intravenous (IV) blood transfusions for medical reasons or blood doping to increase athletic performance are potentially exposed to the plasticizer di-(2-ethylhexyl)phthalate (DEHP) found in IV bags. Exposure to DEHP has been evaluated by measuring DEHP metabolites in selected groups of subjects.

STUDY DESIGN AND METHODS: Urinary DEHP metabolites, mono-(2-ethylhexyl)phthalate, mono-(2-ethyl-5-hydroxyhexyl)phthalate (MEHHP), and mono-(2-ethyl-5-oxohexyl)phthalate (MEOHP) were measured in a control group with no explicit known exposure to DEHP (n = 30), hospitalized patients receiving blood transfusions (n = 25), nontransfused hospitalized patients receiving other medical care involving plastic materials (n = 39), and athletes (n = 127). Patients were tested in the periods 0 to 24 and 24 to 48 hours after exposition.

RESULTS: Urinary concentrations of all three DEHP metabolites were significantly higher in patients receiving blood transfusion than in nontransfused patients and the control group, except for MEHHP and MEOHP in the period 24 to 48 hours. Samples from four athletes showed increased concentrations of DEHP metabolites comparable to urinary concentrations of patients receiving blood transfusion.

CONCLUSION: Elevated concentrations of urinary DEHP metabolites represent increased exposure to DEHP. High concentrations of DEHP metabolites present in urine collected from athletes may suggest illegal blood transfusion and can be used as a qualitative screening measure for blood doping.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19694994

 

[Escarabajo]

Wouldn't the UCI have to notify WADA when the first sample came back positive? Also, does WADA have the control numbers for samples to link it back to Contador? This case is getting more interesting by the hour.

Dr. Maserati had a better assessment on the matter in the other thread. The same way the tracked the positive to Landis. A popular rider cancelling all the popular events and finishing the season way too early.

I think UCI and WADA get the results from the lab simultaneously. I thought that was the agreement between WADA and the UCI. So that way there was more transparency. Another poster mentioned this a lot of threads ago.

 

[Escarabajo]

Ok theres loads of research done. Contadors ****ed.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19694994

Perfect.

Thanks.

The only problem is that it is not standard for any UCI test. But at least is was used (probably illegally by the lab) to find out about blood transfusion. Maybe the lab might get in trouble for this. Or maybe the UCI. I don't know anymore.

 

[roundabout]

Are you sure that it was used?

*Puts on tinfoil hat* i'm beginning to think that Contador failed an actual test and the steak was a compromise solution to minimize the damage *takes off tinfoil hat*

 

[Le breton]

at this point- it makes more sense for the entire world to see AC getting busted for blood transfusion than a mere 50 picograms of clenbuterol

I totally agree with you, the original story seemed so far-fetched that I thought "we" were being manipulated. That's the reason I started a thread called "Contador not positive" without reading the other thread which started with a lie in its title, Contador's control having been called anomalous and not positive.

Although the theory makes sense, it looks like Contador will be able to get away with a slap on the wrist for clenbutérol as the proposed new method for proving autologous blood transfusion is not yet validated.

 

[ingsve]

And probably in the gels they use during a race?

No, I don't think so. There wouldn't be any plasticizers in the gel since phthalates are used mainly on PVC plastics and wouldn't be added to any food. The only source would in that case be the gels wrapping paper but use of phthalates is being phased out due to health concerns so it's less likely to be used for food packaging though I'm sure that still happens to some extent.

Can anybody explain me whats the logic of the blood bag theory? That would mean he used the substance in the off - season. But that would also mean that he would have to be extremely cautious, as this stuff takes some time before it is gone and there is no natural threshold. That would mean he first had to dope (and use the salbutasomething) to get stronger or whatever, then transfuse blood without this substance afterwards. My logic says that when you dope, you do it either in the off-season (and with useful substances, but that's another matter) to avoid tests (which Contador will have to undergo in the off-season as well), or you transfuse blood in the off-season to use it during a race. But when you do both, both advantages are gone. Your advantage of no doping controls is gone, as you will be tested with this blood in a race. And your advantage of own blood transfusions which will not be detected is gone, as you doped during those transfusions.

It seems a hassle at the very least and moreover extremely risky to me (as, once again, Contador will be tested more than the average cyclist and you cannot build with this substance till a certain level).

I don't see the logic of this theory. Can anybody explain me why he would do this?

Well, it could simply be that the cases are unrelated so that Contador is correct about the Clenbuterol but still cheated with blood transfusions. I find it strange that anyone would use Clenbuterol even in out of competition training unless you were 100% sure about when you were going to be tested. Then again these guys have been around for so long that they can probably guess when it's likely to get tested or not. For example, I wonder how close they get tested during the off season. Unless there are multiple agencies that come and test you then you could simply wait to get tested and then start your doping regimen when they leave. I'm sure they don't generally come back again within two three days of the previous test. There is probably a safe period after each test is taken where it's unlikely to be tested again.

 

[auscyclefan94]

OMG worst post ever. It's a rumor you moron.

No I think you are the moron

And these substances from plastic transfusion bags are not found in any other containers? Like plastic water bottles, for example? Or plastic tubes used in drinking apparatus? I would want to see some evidence that this test is specific.

Your drawing a long bow here as there would be many other riders testing positive for that stuff.

Not the worst post ever. It was a good post. He references quotes to scientists and investigative journalists. You appear desperate. And yes, moronic.

Agreed

1- Where
2- Not a rumor. the source seems very credible to me. And its rationale very good and more believable that the meat theory. Why would a meat be tainted in Europe? if you play with statistics you are increasing your chances of blood doping. here:

- Chances of meat being from Spain and not France. 50-50%
- Chances of meat being tainted in spain. less than 10% maybe.
- Chances of Vinokurov not eating the same meat. 50-50% maybe
- Chances of a Tour de France contender (Leader to make it worse) eating red meat 2 days in a row. Less than 30%.
- Chances of having plastisizers in the samples from the day before when he ate the meat. Let's wait for the official results.
- Chances of the UCI trying to cover up. More than 80%.
- Chances of Contador using this product during training when he was not being tested. Very high.

You can build a probabilistic model around this a come up with a veredict.

Good post. Guilty! Guilty! Guilty!

 

[luckyboy]

AC can't actually get banned for the plasticizer can he? I mean, is it on the banned list?

 

[Moller]

Contador had plastic in his blood from the blood bag. A new test proved it.



And what? You think Andy Schleck didn't have one on the rest day as well?

 

[ingsve]

AC can't actually get banned for the plasticizer can he? I mean, is it on the banned list?

No, not as far as I know. These pasticizers are used all over the place so the only indication would be that someone has abnormal amounts of it but the substance itself isn't performance enhancing so it can't be on the restricted list.

I would say that it's more in the lines of finding syringes or blood bags in the trash outside a hotel that a team has used. It in itself is not proof of cheating but it's a very bright red flag.

Perhaps they could add this test to the blood passport and use that as proof that something illegal is going on.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Lots of plasticizers plus jump in htc and fall in retics must look pretty suspicious.

 

[Anonymous]

AC can't actually get banned for the plasticizer can he? I mean, is it on the banned list?

comes from the water bottles he was drinking from.

And yes, plasticizer are used in plastic bottles, although they theoretically shouldnt get into the bloodstream

 

[mastersracer]

comes from the water bottles he was drinking from.

I believe Seppelt is alleging that the plasticizers are 10x higher in the positive sample than in the sample the day before. You'd expect a fairly constant baseline in the Tour samples from Contador unless there was something different going on during the rest day...

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

OMG worst post ever. It's a rumor you moron.

And these substances from plastic transfusion bags are not found in any other containers? Like plastic water bottles, for example? Or plastic tubes used in drinking apparatus? I would want to see some evidence that this test is specific.

I disagree with the worst post tag. Here's a quote from the article:
“There are other, very, very incriminating suspicious facts against Contador. Other values have appeared that are ten times over the higher value from so-called plasticizers [such as di-(2-ethylhexyl)phthalate (DEHP) – ed.] which are used in blood bags. These values were measured one day before the positive dope control. These blood bag softener values could indicate that autologous blood doping may have been performed.”

If these values are real, then they cannot be rumor. However, I agree with the second poster who has questioned how the test can discern the source of traces of the plastics.

 

[Anonymous]

I believe Seppelt is alleging that the plasticizers are 10x higher in the positive sample than in the sample the day before. You'd expect a fairly constant baseline in the Tour samples from Contador unless there was something different going on during the rest day...

was playing in a paddling pool? ate a lot of ice pops? giving oral sex to someone wearing a condom? chewing his biro?

 

[auscyclefan94]

was playing in a paddling pool? ate a lot of ice pops? giving oral sex to someone wearing a condom? chewing his biro?

but it is the increase in it as it is an irregularity in comparison to the other samples.

 

[scribe]

What are the chances the cow drank from soft plastic bottles?

 

[Escarabajo]

This is the same type of cow that is tainted with Clenbuterol.

 

[Anonymous]

but it is the increase in it as it is an irregularity in comparison to the other samples.

well yeh, clearly he did one, or all of those things on the morning of the rest day